146 réponses à ce sujet

[Keroko]

Hacking and modding are mutually exclusive.
 
Hacking generally refers to using 3rd party software in order to tamper with the game to give you unfair advantages such as auto-target.
 
Modding refers to actually modifying, adding, or deleting files in the game to generally replace assets with your own custom ones.

Hardly. The intent is different, but at their core, they're the exact same thing. Both access and modify files in the game to change parameters to the player's liking. The only difference between a mod and a hack is the legality. If the devs aprove it? it's a mod. If the devs don't? It's a hack.

 

To illustrate: Skyrim has a thousand super-awesome-one-hit-destroy-continent-weapon mods. But we're still calling them mods, even though the same mod in Battlefield would be called a hack.

 

So while visual mods may be difficult to achieve from what we've heardof the frostbite engine, the presence of hackers confirms that altering game mechanics is very possible. Which means that things like passive health regeneration or manual distribution of attribute points  -which are a major concern of some of the players here- can be modded in.

[Fast Jimmy]

I find this "no modding for multiplayer" attitude wierd. I mean, sure, using cheat mods is obviously wrong, but to flat out stop modding is, to me, utterly wrong (if there are technical reasons, fine, but stopping modding simply because a game is multiplayer centric is not). Why can't I create a variation of the game, with differently balanced parameters, new weapons, new maps etc. and then have other people play my version of the game? Why should this get me banned?

Many of the best multiplayer games ever have been, or at least began as, mods. Counter-Strike, DotA, Day-Z etc. They were all mods.

The problem comes into play when using the mod doesn't separate you into a different subset than people playing without it. If you were playing Day-Z, where ammo and weapons are scarce, and someone was playing Counter-Strike, do you think a MP match between the two of you would be fair?

I'm a big proponent of modding, but if the devs don't support them and don't offer a method of differentiating the game for those who have them versus those who don't, then it truly is an unfair advantage.


Also, to all of those saying "well, this won't affect SP mods," I would disagree. The color texture mod for BF4 was a mod to the root game - it wasn't just active for MP, it was active for the entire game. Unless you want to uninstall the mod everytime you switch from SP to MP (or just avoid MP altogether), then this may very well give people an unfair advantage in MP and, hence, be possible to be banned.

That's a lot of assumptions, but it simply is pointing out the flaw of an original assumption - don't assume that a mod that may (or may not) be created that you want for SP won't bleed over into the MP gameplay. Or that if it does, you won't look at the same response that people caught cheating get.

[Fidite Nemini]

 

This really isn't true. Frostbite has been in existence since Battlefield: Bad Company. It had its major overhaul with Frostbite 2 with Battlefield 3, which released in 2011 (the same year as DA2). Frostbite 3 is just an upgraded Frostbite 2 with more micro-destruction, higher resolution faces, and overall improved special effects for a more cinematic and engaging experience. The engine is far from being relatively new. The problem is the engine was built for an online shooter, of which modding is not an aspect of the game that is endorsed.

 

Did you miss the "compared to previous engines BioWare used" part? DAI is literally the first RPG genre game with this engine and PvP focused MP games aren't exactly a hotbed for modders, so chances are that the BioWare fans who're into modding may not have dealt with the FB engine at all yet.

[Wiggs Magee]

The most i'd expect to see would be slight number tweaks maybe reskins at most.

Just the case where frostbite 3 isn't mod friendly at all

People who say that DA2, ME3 had mod support... those were on totally different engines. Forstbite 3 was designed for online shooters in mind so modding accessibility was never really a priority.

Highly unlikely you'll be seeing large scale player made content

[Fast Jimmy]

Hardly. The intent is different, but at their core, they're the exact same thing. Both access and modify files in the game to change parameters to the player's liking. The only difference between a mod and a hack is the legality. If the devs aprove it? it's a mod. If the devs don't? It's a hack.

To illustrate: Skyrim has a thousand super-awesome-one-hit-destroy-continent-weapon mods. But we're still calling them mods, even though the same mod in Battlefield would be called a hack.

So while visual mods may be difficult to achieve from what we've heardof the frostbite engine, the presence of hackers confirms that altering game mechanics is very possible. Which means that things like passive health regeneration or manual distribution of attribute points -which are a major concern of some of the players here- can be modded in.

I disagree. Devs can be against a mod and have it still be called a mod. The devs don't endorse the nudity or sex mods for DA:O, I'm sure, but they are still considered mods. Same goes for the BF4 color texture mod.

I, personally, consider a hack something that utilizes a third party app. XP trainers, auto-aim apps, programs that do nothing but farm gold without player input, etc. While a mod is something that modifies the game files themselves.

Regardless, I don't think hacks are going to be a backdoor to game mechanics. Auto-aiming, for example, is something the player can do, but that a properly designed app can do better. There's no way a player can regenerate health if they do the right series of actions to a mechanical level of perfection - it is the game design. You can't change it without modding how the game works.

[Darkly Tranquil]

This is probably the biggest disappointment about DAI for me and why I suspect I will enjoy it a lot less than Origins. Modders always come up with cool things the devs wouldn't or couldn't do, and it will be a shame not to be able to see what the mod community might be able to come up with.

[luna1124]

Why don't we just enjoy the game as it comes out, then later, maybe they will let us mod it

[xkg]

Don't fool yourself, guys. No matter how hard the engine is to mod, no matter what kind of protections there are - the nude mod of some kind is going to be here. It is as certain as death and taxes. 

[PhroXenGold]

Shooters are the one genre where modding doesn't work and is most cases a detriment to the experience. Especially when you are dealing with games that are primarily online, it leads to all sorts of issues. Mods are also generally client-side, so you would only reap the benefits anyways.

 

I would like to note there is a difference between a shooter (CoD/Battlefield) and a simulator (Arma). Simulations are generally more appropriate for player-created content such as mods. Shooters are purely for competition and to have an even footing with your opponents. DotA isn't a shooter and Day-z is a survival horror simulator that's not a shooter.

 

This really isn't true. Frostbite has been in existence since Battlefield: Bad Company. It had its major overhaul with Frostbite 2 with Battlefield 3, which released in 2011 (the same year as DA2). Frostbite 3 is just an upgraded Frostbite 2 with more micro-destruction, higher resolution faces, and overall improved special effects for a more cinematic and engaging experience. The engine is far from being relatively new. The problem is the engine was built for an online shooter, of which modding is not an aspect of the game that is endorsed.

 

Very good explanation on why mods are generally a bad idea for shooters.

 

Have things really changed that much? I mean, I haven't played many shooters in the last few years, but I spent most of my teens playing multiplayer centric FPS games like Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 and so forth. They were arguably the purest multiplayer shooters we've had, and yet they actively encouraged modding. Half-Life's multiplayer community was pretty much built around mods, (as the base MP, while not bad, was nothing special), including Counter-Strike as well as several other shooters which were popular enough to to become stand alone commercial releases. Hell, you mention Battlefield, well, have a look at the earlier games in that series: active modding communities and popular mods. Was cheating an issue? To some extent, but never to the level that removing mod support would ever be considered worth it.

[Keroko]

Have things really changed that much? I mean, I haven't played many shooters in the last few years, but I spent most of my teens playing multiplayer centric FPS games like Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 and so forth. They were arguably the purest multiplayer shooters we've had, and yet they actively encouraged modding. Half-Life's multiplayer community was pretty much built around mods, (as the base MP, while not bad, was nothing special), including Counter-Strike as well as several other shooters which were popular enough to to become stand alone commercial releases. Hell, you mention Battlefield, well, have a look at the earlier games in that series: active modding communities and popular mods. Was cheating an issue? To some extent, but never to the level that removing mod support would ever be considered worth it.

 

The pro-scene has grown quite a bit during the recent years. And when money is involved, many players and devs alike begin calling for a clean and level battlefield.

[Gtdef]

But what's wrong with creating a mod where everyone sees soldiers as bright orange, and then letting anyone who wants to play with that mode active do so?

 

I'm not sure exactly how it works in BF4, but if you wanted to, you could join servers without punkbuster in BF3 and do whatever you want. Not that punkbuster was very effective at stopping aimbotters etc but I don't think there is a danger of ban.

[bl00dsh0t]

From what I recall in earlier discussions about modding in newer games was that a lot of the tools used to build things inside the game had begun to be licensed 3rd party tools, as opposed to the older ones in DA:O still based on the old neverwinter nights tools. 

 

I don't think that there is a single dev in Bioware that does not see the value of the modding community, but when providing the tools and abilities to mod become a licensing, as well as as an investment of resources, issue then there are simply too many costs associated with it for there to be enough benefit in it to spend the money to do it. 

 

Sucks, but it is the most likely explanation I can come up with 

[hexaligned]

Is there any particular reason HEX editing will not work?  I'm not that practiced at it, but I made a few mechanics mods for Skyrim using that method (before the toolset was released).  The only reason I can think of that it wouldn't, is if the game did an integrity check of it's files every time you started it up.  I mean it's laborious, but I have the patience to do simple mods that way.

[Patchwork]

I doubt there's going to be any big mods but something like Texmod, simple file swapping or adjusting assets might be possible with the right programs. But it really depends on how motivated people are, look at the Mass Effect series 1 and 2 have barely any mods but ME3 has comparatively loads some of which fundamentally change the game.

 

DAI will probably have the same mod policy as ME3- do what you like to your SP but modding MP earns a ban. 

[magicalzero]

Like they cannot ban visual-only mods if they wanted to, unless they tried very hard which I see no reason. Expect to see new hair colors, eyelashes etc... maybe appearance of armor (not the stats). But I wouldn't expect much.

 

New textures and meshes actually have to be loaded into the game for them to work. This is usually done either with a mod manager, like in Dragon Age: Origins, or by replacing and/or modifying existing textures. DA:I does not have the former kind of functionality, and the latter method only works if those textures are readily available within the gamefiles, which isn't necessarily the case.

[kipac]

It's their loss if they don't allow modding on purpose unless it's because of technical difficulty.

Bethesda wouldn't have gotten much reputation and credits like now if they didn't allow mods.
The only reason people are still playing Skyrim and fallouts is because of community making mods. Without them, Bethesda games get boring pretty fast to be honest.

Bioware games wouldn't really go well with some types of mods though, since their games are usually story heavy. But if it's visuals related, there shouldn't be any problems for singleplayer.

[Commodore12]

im sure there will some mods for sex scenes the pervs

[Yermogi]

From what I understand, the Frostbite engine makes it either impossible or incredibly difficult to make mods for the game. That's not to say someone couldn't do it, but probably it would take a lot of time. A lot of time. Also installing a mod with the new system also seems like a big issue. I suppose we'll just have to see.

[skjutengris]

From what I understand, the Frostbite engine makes it either impossible or incredibly difficult to make mods for the game. That's not to say someone couldn't do it, but probably it would take a lot of time. A lot of time. Also installing a mod with the new system also seems like a big issue. I suppose we'll just have to see.

DICE just didnt want people to do that due to the engine is used by EA and licensed.

so It wont be modd able.

 

still engine is pretty enough.

the physics of the engine makes a lot of difference and once Bioware get around to make night cycles it be a lot better.

expansion?

[Cyonan]

People say the engine is un-moddable.

 

but all I'm seeing is a challenge to break it.

[FeralEwok]

PC modder folks tend to be resourceful...

 

 

That being said I imagine the game won't be dramatically modified if the engine is pretty stubborn. Pretty hopeful towards texture mods though as they are relatively easy. If so then say goodbye to the Inquisitor PJs.

[JerZey CJ]

As someone who enjoys Bethesda games, I've seen what a modding community can do when they really want it...

 

...I give it a week's time before there's nude and fully functioning sex mods out.

[Snook]

There's never zero possibility. Mods will exist, sooner or later.