146 réponses à ce sujet

[RoboticWater]

I think this is partly due to the fact that most people simply don't play BF4 for the single player experience.

 

Who is going to put the time into making a mod that adds a quest or new vehicle for BF4's single player campaign, for example.

Mods are hardly exclusive to single player. In fact I can imagine that if there were modding tools for frostbite, we'd be seeing a deluge of player created maps, guns, gametypes, and even custom campaigns. Just look at the success of Halo's forge.

 

It's actually easier (if only slightly) to get into MP modding, as creating a half decent MP map is much easier than fabricating quests and scripted events.

[naughty99]

Mods are hardly exclusive to single player. In fact I can imagine that if there were modding tools for frostbite, we'd be seeing a deluge of player created maps, guns, gametypes, and even custom campaigns. Just look at the success of Halo's forge.

 

It's actually easier (if only slightly) to get into MP modding, as creating a half decent MP map is much easier than fabricating quests and scripted events.

 

I don't mean to suggest that modding for MP games is not popular, only that it requires the support on some level of the publisher / servers hosting MP maps, anti-cheat system, etc.

 

On SP games, whichever mods you install are between you and your Maker. 

[Massakkolia]

It's surprising after all these years, how little some folks seem to think of the modders abilities.  These are folks who always find a way to provide mods and plenty of them.  It doesn't matter whether or not they have a 'toolset', obviously it would make it easier and Bioware would provide it in a heartbeat if EA would allow it, but that was disallowed after DAO because the higher-ups mistakenly believe the game is better with more DLC items and fewer mods.  That didn't stop the number of mods for DA2 from being quite numerous.  No doubt the numbers will be large again in DAI.  Folks seem to want to compare DAI to other multiplayer games, but DAI isn't a multiplayer game, it has a multiplayer aspect to it, and no doubt that won't be modable, because they have to constantly work to keep that from happening, as that would throw off the game.  But for the single player game, nobody's going to be diligently working to overcome and prevent mods, there's going to be plenty of them, and they'll be sooner than most folks seem to think.  I'm not a modder myself but they've certainly earned my (and everyone's) respect over the years.  These are smart and clever folks, they've never failed to deliver before, and for a game this big they certainly aren't going to start now .

As others have stated above, our concerns are certainly not about disrespecting or underestimating modders. Frostbite is simply a complex engine that is supposedly very difficult to mod. We might get some mods, but don't expect the volume of DA2. Even though Bioware did not release a toolset for DA2, the game used the enhanced version of DAO's engine, which probably made things somewhat familiar for modders. With Frostbite, we won't have that luxury.

 

As for the whole "evil EA doesn't allow Bioware to release a toolset because DLC" theory, I don't buy it. First of all, it would take time and resources for Bioware to make the toolset readily available to everyone. Toolsets don't come for free. Because the engine is so complex, making a public toolset might be very difficult. Maybe both EA and Bioware would rather focus on DA4.

 

Skyrim has proven that contemporary games (and their sales) can be greatly enhanced by modding, and supporting modding can actually be financially wise for RPG developers. EA knows this. I'm sure that if Frostbite 3 would be mainly an RPG engine, they would put resources in creating a toolset available for players. It would be a smart business decision. Unfortunately, Frostbite is, at the moment, known for multiplayer focused FPS games. EA doesn't want to deal with the headache of having some people exploiting mods in multiplayer (yes, I'm aware that there are tons of ways to use multiplayer mods in a non-exploitive way).

 

Once the use of Frostbite keeps expanding outside its traditional FPS multiplayer base, EA might reconsider their position. Maybe DICE will develop the next version of Frostbite to be more mod-friendly. I don't have much hope for DAI though when it comes to mods. 

[Fast Jimmy]

So, it's the tool set. if Bioware release it to moders then it's all good.
Alrightie then, what are the chances that Bioware will actually do that you guys think.
Does Frostbite 3 also have the tool set? I assumed then every game engine has one. A noob question.

No, not possible.

Unlike other developers (notably Bethesda or ProjektRed), DICE (creator of the Frostbite engine) uses third party software to run the engine.

As they should - a video game developer is the best at developing video games. Not making animation software tools, or sound editing apps, or debug compiler programs. Other companies do this much better and rent out licenses for their apps which are incorporated into Frostbite. For the 300-500 employees at Bioware using Frostbite, it is a huge money saver to rent these tools rather than sinking the time and resources to making their own, not to mention these tools are often better than what they could make in house.

However, these licenses are not cheap. It is affordable to spend $1000 for each employee to have these licenses, since it helps push the final product. However, if Bioware wanted to include a copy of their modkit in every $60 game sold, they would go broke in a heartbeat paying for those licenses.

Their only other option is to rip out these third party tools and trying to patch the holes by making some in-house tools themselves. This would not only take lots of time, but likely would be very hard to get to work, would be of much lower quality than the tools actually used to make the game and would not have the polish, QA or general stress tests actually mod tools need to create meaningful content.

So... go broke hilariously quick or sink a LOT of time and money into something that will be pretty mediocre on even the best day.

With those options on the table, Bioware has made the business decision to not include modkits. If some type of Magic agreement could be come to across all the third party companies to (essentially) give away their products for free, or Bioware/EA/DICE/whoever makes a commitment to create a toolkit program that would take a (assumably) large amount of effort to create, maintain and test, then this could possibly come to fruition. But I think if either of those things were even remotely liky to happen in the next six months, there would be some sort of murmer or discussion about it.

So - to answer the thrust of your post - there is no magic toolkit on the shelf that Bioware is just being mean about not including.

[qOjOp]

No, not possible.

Unlike other developers (notably Bethesda or ProjektRed), DICE (creator of the Frostbite engine) uses third party software to run the engine.

As they should - a video game developer is the best at developing video games. Not making animation software tools, or sound editing apps, or debug compiler programs. Other companies do this much better and rent out licenses for their apps which are incorporated into Frostbite. For the 300-500 employees at Bioware using Frostbite, it is a huge money saver to rent these tools rather than sinking the time and resources to making their own, not to mention these tools are often better than what they could make in house.

However, these licenses are not cheap. It is affordable to spend $1000 for each employee to have these licenses, since it helps push the final product. However, if Bioware wanted to include a copy of their modkit in every $60 game sold, they would go broke in a heartbeat paying for those licenses.

Their only other option is to rip out these third party tools and trying to patch the holes by making some in-house tools themselves. This would not only take lots of time, but likely would be very hard to get to work, would be of much lower quality than the tools actually used to make the game and would not have the polish, QA or general stress tests actually mod tools need to create meaningful content.

So... go broke hilariously quick or sink a LOT of time and money into something that will be pretty mediocre on even the best day.

With those options on the table, Bioware has made the business decision to not include modkits. If some type of Magic agreement could be come to across all the third party companies to (essentially) give away their products for free, or Bioware/EA/DICE/whoever makes a commitment to create a toolkit program that would take a (assumably) large amount of effort to create, maintain and test, then this could possibly come to fruition. But I think if either of those things were even remotely liky to happen in the next six months, there would be some sort of murmer or discussion about it.

So - to answer the thrust of your post - there is no magic toolkit on the shelf that Bioware is just being mean about not including.

Wow... So me expecting DAI to be anywhere near as Skyrim now is beyond reach.

Okie...at least it's good for me to know now and to be informed, so that I will not have any high and false hope

which will ultimately bring nothing but major disappointment...and sadness.

But honestly the fault lies with me. I just love them mods too damn much I guess.

 

Thanks Fast Jimmy...that Sir is very insightful indeed.

Thank you.

 

[spinachdiaper]

I'm going to guess that modding DAI will be tricky and since It's got DAIMP I'll guess it may not be tolerated since it could effect that too.

[Fast Jimmy]

Wow... So me expecting DAI to be anywhere near as Skyrim now is beyond reach.
Okie...at least it's good for me to know now and to be informed, so that I will not have any high and false hope
which will ultimately bring nothing but major disappointment...and sadness.
But honestly the fault lies with me. I just love them mods too damn much I guess.

Thanks Fast Jimmy...that Sir is very insightful indeed.
Thank you.

I live to serve.

[qOjOp]

I live to serve.

 

[Chashan]

I'm going to guess that modding DAI will be tricky and since It's got DAIMP I'll guess it may not be tolerated since it could effect that too.

 

I'd be mildly surprised if MP-values were not distinctly separate from SP-ones, which I'd judge to be the most problematic issue in that regard. After all, something fundamental as abilities in MP are limited to four, compared to eight in SP.

ME3 worked a similar way in that regard: adjustment to weapon-damage, cooldowns etc. through patches was limited to MP, with SP-values stored separately in an SP-section of the Coalesced.ini file.

Granted, later on some of that was applied to SP as well if I recall correctly, yet it was still very much accessible through the mentioned file with Coalesced-editor. Further, ME3 already handled this rather pragmatically while there was still active moderation through ban-waves going on: as long as such "hacks" were only used in SP there was no issue*. The developers did state that DA:I's MP is completely separate from SP, so I'd expect them to handle this in a similar way.

 

Personally, I'll choose to remain optimistic that ways shall be found for modding DA:I, be it ability-values, textures and such, at least.

 

*Interchanging the Coalesced.ini between SP- and MP-sessions, edited for one and original for the other was a fairly simply thing to do. I know I did so and got by fine for as long as I played MP.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd be mildly surprised if MP-values were not distinctly separate from SP-ones, which I'd judge to be the most problematic issue in that regard. After all, something fundamental as abilities in MP are limited to four, compared to eight in SP.
ME3 worked a similar way in that regard: adjustment to weapon-damage, cooldowns etc. through patches was limited to MP, with SP-values stored separately in an SP-section of the Coalesced.ini file.
Granted, later on some of that was applied to SP as well if I recall correctly, yet it was still very much accessible through the mentioned file with Coalesced-editor. Further, ME3 already handled this rather pragmatically while there was still active moderation through ban-waves going on: as long as such "hacks" were only used in SP there was no issue*. The developers did state that DA:I's MP is completely separate from SP, so I'd expect them to handle this in a similar way.

Personally, I'll choose to remain optimistic that ways shall be found for modding DA:I, be it ability-values, textures and such, at least.

*Interchanging the Coalesced.ini between SP- and MP-sessions, edited for one and original for the other was a fairly simply thing to do. I know I did so and got by fine for as long as I played MP.

Eh. There is nothing evenly remotely equivalent to the Coalesced editor for Frostbite, to my knowledge. I'm not sure if that affects your enthusiasm for modded content to be created or not, but I think it is important to keep in mind.

[Fishy]

Five day before DAI release inside a bioware studio.

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I Would be Extremely happy with just an override folder

The Override folder was an artifact of BioWare's engines. It existed not for us, but because it was the quickest way for them to test content.

Frostbite has better tools for that, so there is no need for an Override folder.

[veeia]

IMO, the question is not can Inquisition be modded, but will people want to take the time to try to mod it? 

 

Frosbite3 is tricky, but if you have a dedicated community of smarties, there are possibilities.

 

But there has to be a group of people who want to do it and have the expertise, drive, and time to do it. We're lucky that the huge BF modding community has already taken some strides--and ME3 has also produced a new class of Bioware-friendly modders who are willing to do the tricky work of figuring out how to do things with that game....as well as DA:O's impact on the mod community, of course. 

 

I think it will depend on how much people like DA:I, and how much they want to change certain aspects of it. Not all modding will be successful, and we have no idea how "deep" it will go (ie if it will ever get better than texture changes), but....the bigger the modding community, the better the chances are, especially if they are particularly motivated for some reason. It will be interesting to see, for sure. 

[qOjOp]

As much as I am waiting with the greatest, most intense anticipation ever for Inquisition, I am equally
waiting with the greatest, most intense anticipation ever for the moding possibilities for it.

 

[Setiweb]

 

Hey you guys. I have only one question. So is it really true that there are zero possibility of mods in DAI. If it is true, then it will make me very sad. I love mods.

Okie, thanks.

I'd recognize that style and design anywhere.

[qOjOp]

I'd recognize that style and design anywhere.

Hey ya Seti. Good to see you here also. Already have you and some of the gang on my friends list. Still waiting for Makie. He's here somewhere...

Won't be long now huh?... Am hoping for the best from the moding standpoint.

 

[archav3n]

I support mod. So they can remove the gender gate of romance.

[qOjOp]

Well you guys...

It's the 18th!... Will be only hours until we're all back in Dragon Age.

Am also anxiously waiting to see how  moding for DAI are going to be like.

I mean, waiting for them moding wizards. I'm really interested to hear what they

have to say.

 

[qOjOp]

!!!Yaaaaayyyyy!!!

Them mod Wizards are building The DAI Tool Set!

This is an awesome news. !YES! !YES! !YES!

[TheLastArchivist]

No mods?

Heads will roll.

[qOjOp]