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What was Duncan doing there? *Spoilers*


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#51
gnewna

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I had no idea. I guess I didn't ask the right questions. Of course that begs the question of why Duncan didn't say that outright when the first met the PC or why Valendrian was marrying the Elf off if s/he was supposed to become a Grey Warden.

 

 

Because Valendrian doesn't approve. I believe he hurried along her planned marriage to the PC's father so she wouldn't run off to join the Wardens, or something like that. (Not that he doesn't approve of the Wardens, he's clearly fond/respectful of Duncan, but he doesn't want one of his people to become one, which is understandable given what we learn about the life expectancy of even Wardens who *survive* the Joining.) And Duncan didn't say anything outright, I think, because he is intrigued and observing how you react to this heavily armed shemlen wandering into the Alienage. Plus he's a bit of a joker ;)


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#52
Kenshen

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I actually like that idea that Flemeth tipped Duncan off.  She wouldn't have told him everything like the rout of Ostagar but the one who will stop the bight is <insert your origin here>.  With her rep I can see where he would listen and believe her story then travel to that place to recruit the PC.  Hadn't the two met before?  However the major flaw with this, especially with the HM origin is he wouldn't have settled for no from Bryce unless he knew Howe was going to attack and yet said nor did anything to prevent it.  Certainly can cast Duncan as a darker character.



#53
Bardox9

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While I too like the idea of Flemeth masterminding the entire affair I don't see anything in the lore to support the idea. The most I would be willing to believe is that Flemeth may have had a vision of the Blight and told Duncan, assuming he would even listen to the random nutty old woman, that <insert origin here> would be instrumental in defeating the archdemon and that is why Duncan was in a particular place. But there is nothing in the story that would suggest that happened.

 

Duncan in the Field Commander of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, yet is leaves the field and goes off to 1 of 6 places. 3 of which is made in preparation for a major assault. The other three he leaves his men, seemingly on a whim, to go find three people that may or may not survive the joining. From a tactical perspective, DN, DE, and Mage origins make sense for the Commander of the Grey to be there. HN, CE, and DC origins make no sense for the Commander of the Grey to be there.


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#54
Klidi

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Mage: I don't question why he's there. His reason for being at the Tower was that he needed more mages for the kings army. "When the King sent out the call, the Circle sent only seven mages... I cannot do with just seven." He wasn't specifically recruiting for the Wardens. Conscripting your character was just done in response to the Jowan thing. I just don't know why there weren't more mages with you when you leave the Tower.

 

That's not exactly true. He came there to recruit more mages, yes, but he also came to recruit YOU. When you meet him first, he asks, 'This is...' and Irving replies, 'Yes, ths is he/she', meaning they had discussed you before that. When he intervenes after Jowan's escape, he says, 'Irving spoke highly about this mage'. And finally, during one conversations with Wynne your mage has an option to say, 'I don't know what Irving saw in me that he recommeded me'. So Duncan came specifically for you.

 

As for why he was there with other origins, I don't see a problem with it. Yes, he's Commander of Grey, and perhaps he could have sent someone else to assess a recruit, but considering how few Wardens there are in Ferelden, it doesn't surprise me they're handpicked. And during the Blight it's even more important to choose a good candidate than in the time of peace.

 

Elves in alienages aren't allowed to own weapons - but it doesn't mean they actually don't. In fact, I always found it strange that the City Elf Warden didn't have his own set of daggers, since it's hinted in the conversation with his father that he was secretly practicing fighting (father wanted to keep it secret from the Warden's future spouse). And even if they weren't good in fighting, they have other skills, they know how to survive in harsh conditions, how to use any opportunity for their favour - so much more than a pampered noble girl, imho. Same goes for Dwarven Commoners and Dalish. Even if he didn't have a specific person in mind, he'd know he was likely to find a good candidate there.

 

Actually, the only origin that doesn't make sense for me, and isn't in line with Duncan's behaviour in other origins, is Human Noble. He saves the mage because he/she is a rare person who risks everything for a friend in need; he helps City Elves, he helps dwarves, he saves the life of a Dalish... But in Human Noble origin he acts like an *******, blackmailing the dying father to let him recruit the child. Moreover, he recruits a person that is generally known as a PUP, who has no real experience with anything - this would be the first time the Pup was in charge of a household! It would make so much more sense if he stuck to Rory and forced him to leave to Ostagar, instead of the young Cousland.



#55
Bardox9

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That's not exactly true. He came there to recruit more mages, yes, but he also came to recruit YOU. When you meet him first, he asks, 'This is...' and Irving replies, 'Yes, ths is he/she', meaning they had discussed you before that. When he intervenes after Jowan's escape, he says, 'Irving spoke highly about this mage'. And finally, during one conversations with Wynne your mage has an option to say, 'I don't know what Irving saw in me that he recommeded me'. So Duncan came specifically for you.

 

I don't think he even knew about your mage until after he got there. The Harrowing is often as lethal as the Grey Wardens Joining. I don't think Irving told Duncan about "you" until after he had already come to the tower looking for Mages for the King's army.



#56
Klidi

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I don't think he even knew about your mage until after he got there. The Harrowing is often as lethal as the Grey Wardens Joining. I don't think Irving told Duncan about "you" until after he had already come to the tower looking for Mages for the King's army.

 

Maybe. But, I don't think it would be strange if Irving expected that his "star pupil" (as Uldred calls the mage Warden) would survive. And I don't think Duncan would go there only to recruit mages for the King's army. Since that, you know, was none of his business. But, these are all just 'headcanons', of course. :)



#57
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Maybe. But, I don't think it would be strange if Irving expected that his "star pupil" (as Uldred calls the mage Warden) would survive. And I don't think Duncan would go there only to recruit mages for the King's army. Since that, you know, was none of his business. But, these are all just 'headcanons', of course. :)

How exactly was the King's army not Duncan's business, in a case where the army was being assembled in Ostagar on Duncan's sayso to help Duncan do his job? Especially since it's Duncan who the Circle and Templars have to help, whereas the Circles absolutely don't have to help secular kings?



#58
Klidi

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How exactly was the King's army not Duncan's business, in a case where the army was being assembled in Ostagar on Duncan's sayso to help Duncan do his job? Especially since it's Duncan who the Circle and Templars have to help, whereas the Circles absolutely don't have to help secular kings?

 

The mages don't have to support the king? Says who? :D

Also, Duncan was NOT Cailan's general. That was Loghain. Duncan didn't approve Cailan and Loghain's strategy, and wasn't impressed with their victories and doubts whether it was a real Blight. Also, both Irving and Duncan explain that it is King who is raising the army. And after Jowan escapes, Duncan specifically says that he's not there only because the King's army, but because he wants to recruit Wardens.

 

(Surana is my favourite origin; I replayed it at least dozen times and know the dialogue lines by heart now. >.>)



#59
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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The mages don't have to support the king? Says who? :D

Also, Duncan was NOT Cailan's general. That was Loghain. Duncan didn't approve Cailan and Loghain's strategy, and wasn't impressed with their victories and doubts whether it was a real Blight. Also, both Irving and Duncan explain that it is King who is raising the army. And after Jowan escapes, Duncan specifically says that he's not there only because the King's army, but because he wants to recruit Wardens.

 

(Surana is my favourite origin; I replayed it at least dozen times and know the dialogue lines by heart now. >.>)

I'm not disputing that Duncan was looking for a Warden. It's your assertion that Cailan's army is none of Duncan's business that bugs me.

 

For one thing, the Circle does not answer to Cailan or Loghain. It's a neutral entity which isn't supposed to get too involved with politics. They are required to support the Grey Wardens. Hence while it is Cailan raising the army, it's Duncan who has the best claim to be the one mobilizing the mages. Furthermore, the fight Cailan is going to is to a large degree Duncan's own. Cailan is raising the army to help him do his job.



#60
Klidi

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I'm not disputing that Duncan was looking for a Warden. It's your assertion that Cailan's army is none of Duncan's business that bugs me.

 

For one thing, the Circle does not answer to Cailan or Loghain. It's a neutral entity which isn't supposed to get too involved with politics. They are required to support the Grey Wardens. Hence while it is Cailan raising the army, it's Duncan who has the best claim to be the one mobilizing the mages. Furthermore, the fight Cailan is going to is to a large degree Duncan's own. Cailan is raising the army to help him do his job.

 

Let's agree to disagree. :) It's true that the Circle tries to have a neutrality policy, because they are controlled by the Chantry, it doesn't mean they don't get involved into politics at all. And while the mages officially don't have to serve at the Chantry command, they are still under their control - as Duncan says to the mage in the Tower 'you have realized by now that the Chantry merely tolerates the magic'. If the Chantry turns against them, the mages can be wiped out (the Rite of Anulment), and individuals can be tranquiled. Also, most mages are imprisoned inside the Tower. Where do you think money for their living comes from? The food, the clothes, supplies needed for magic? It's the Chantry who controls trade with enchanted items, magical supplies - and lyrium. Mages might not be slaves per se, but they are definitely dependant on the Chantry. And you don't honestly believe there's no connection between the Chantry and the politics?

 

So, while they are neutral, the mages can't afford to be totally ignorant of what's going on around them. They need to maintain good relationships with the Chantry, and to find a possible sponsor and protector, such as the King. If the First Enchanter is too weak and not enough politically savvy, things get much worse for the mages. If a King calls for the help in the war - especially if the Chantry approves - the mages would have to be mentally retarded to refuse him with 'we're not obliged to serve you!'

 

Bsides, the Grey Wardens in Ferelden were too small and weak, and had perhaps even less political influence than the mages. They were also 'neutral', but they also couldn't afford to ignore the politics. They couldn't use the Right of Conscription as they wanted, for example, as it would cause political problems. Don't forget they were only allowed to return to Ferelden 20 years before the Blight, after being banished for 250 years for being involved into a political conflict (despite their 'neutrality').

 

And the Blight is as much Cailan's job as it is Duncan's, since, you know, it's going on in his country. The King can't just refuse to take the responsiblity and leave it all on a group of a few men, while monsters are killing his subjects, devastating farms that supply country with food, and destroy the cities, ruining the economy (the consequences of such war are felt for years later) and political stability, which could have been easily exploted by others (e.g. Orlais). Cailan is rising the army to defend his country and his own ass from the darkspawn. He would have to do it with or without the Wardens. So if Cailan needed mages for his army, he was in much better position to do it than Duncan, and Duncan was acting in the king's name. It's in fact quite possible that Duncan went to the Tower to recruit his Warden mage, and Cailan used it to ask for reinforcements for his army (since there already were mages fighting for him, as Greagoir said).



#61
Kenshen

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While I too like the idea of Flemeth masterminding the entire affair I don't see anything in the lore to support the idea. The most I would be willing to believe is that Flemeth may have had a vision of the Blight and told Duncan, assuming he would even listen to the random nutty old woman, that <insert origin here> would be instrumental in defeating the archdemon and that is why Duncan was in a particular place. But there is nothing in the story that would suggest that happened.

 

 

Speaking of lore I haven't read any of the books so there are certainly holes in what I know.  Question hasn't Flemeth and Duncan already met before when Maric was alive?  If so that would give her credibility for him to believe the story about the PC and if not then I don't have much to stand on.  One thing though is we haven't learned that much about Flemeth so lore wise more could be revealed latter about these past events that changes how we view them or so I can dream.  I can't think of any other reason why a high ranking leader such as Duncan would leave Ostagar to go round up a few more very green recruits who are not even told the full story of what it means to be a GW.  How long was Alistair a GW and he isn't told about how to kill the AD? 



#62
Chuvvy

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HN is implied multiple times to be one of the more skilled fighters in Ferelden. So wanting the HN makes sense, where the story falls a part is Duncan deciding not to recruit you.

City Elf makes no sense, as elves aren't even allowed weapons. (As said by Pol in the Dalish origin)

Dorf commoner was just chance as I remember it, but it's probably been four years since I've played that origin, and I only played it once.

Dalish is questionable at best, he knows almost nothing about you aside from you killing a few darkspawn.

Dwarf Noble makes sense, but again is more chance than anything.

Mage is kinda iffy as well. It also brings up lore inconsistencies with the "only one warden can be a mage at a time", then in DAA you can have three.



#63
Heimdall

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As Riordan said, there are "compelling reasons to have as many Wardens on hand as possible when the Arcdemon shows itself" and he knew Cailan didn't want to wait for the Orlesian Wardens.  I got the sense the Duncan was doing one last short recruiting tour before heading to Ostagar (I don't think he started there and then came back).  In the case of the DE, on the other hand, he was just tracking unusual darkspawn activity.  I have no idea why he was forging into the Deep Roads in the DN though, but atleast he wasn't traveling alone (Which doesn't make much sense in the DE)



#64
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Anyone else wonder about this in the various origins? Some of the reasons for his being there made sense and others... not so much.

 

Human Noble: Coming to Highever castle to test a single candidate while in the midst of fighting off a Darkspawn horde... Huh? The enemy marches but he's going to the other end of the country for one dude??

 

Human/Elf Mage: Coming to the tower to get more mages for the army. Ok, I'll buy that one... even though he only leaves with one?

 

City Elf: Roaming around the slums of the capital for no particular reason while the horde in the south grows ever larger... 0.o

 

Dalish Elf: Comes across you as he is hunting a rouge Darkspawn group... ok. Little weird, but ok.

 

Dwarven Commoner: Visiting an under ground city watching a "Proving"?? Huh? Horde... threatening the world and he's taking in the sights of dirt people? Are you kidding me??

 

Dwarven Noble: You meet him in the palace dining hall just before he and his men head out to investigate Darkspawn movements in the deep roads. Ok, sure. Why not? Put him there. Ancestors be with you.

 

I can't be the only one who thought about this at one time or another. It does make sense for some of the origins to have Duncan pop up, but others...  WTF WAS HE DOING THERE?!?!

 

As other people have said, the Grey Wardens desperately needed new recruits, but people weren't exactly lining up thanks to the country's residual distrust of them and unwillingness to sacrifice their own people to the lifetime gig of being a Grey Warden. He has to do a delicate balancing act of getting more recruits to flesh out their piddling numbers, but ALSO not pick up too many to upset local Fereldens who might withdraw support at any time / jump at the chance to kick them out, AND pick up only those he thinks has a good chance of surviving the Joining.

 

Human Noble: The Couslands and their knights are Mary Sue badasses who have the entire country grovel over them just for existing, not to mention rich human nobles have the wealth, time, and nutrition to afford being well-trained fighters, so it makes sense that he would go to a socially accepted and supported (and funded) bunch of badasses.

 

Mage: As Duncan says, the Grey Wardens can use more mages. However, Gregor and the Chantry won't agree to giving up too many mages, and since the Chantry and Templars hold a lot of social and legal clout with the country, getting on their bad side by demanding too many could lead to people turning on the Grey Wardens. So he has to narrow it down to one or two. As others have said, Gregor's apprentice (you) has a phenomenal reputation that proceeds Duncan meeting you (it helps you passed your Harrowing with flying colors the night before he shows up, and everyone in the Circle is talking about it when he comes in), so since he was hoping to find one or two great recruits anyway, the most outstanding pupil is a natural first choice.

 

City Elf: I take offense to that. Duncan knew the City Elf's mother, remember? In his words, Adaia was an excellent rogue/warrior who would have made an excellent Grey Warden, but since there was no Blight at the time, he didn't press it. However, there is a Blight now. Since he's known for a long while that she passed her training onto you, it's heavily implied he came to the alienage specifically to see if you have your mother's spark. When you successfully save the women, he becomes convinced you are your mother's child after all, and thus an excellent recruit.

 

Dalish: As others have said, he's hunting unusual darkspawn activity. The darkspawn aren't ONLY showing unusual activity in Ostagar, though that is where they're gathering in greater numbers. The Grey Wardens have learned not to ignore unusual darkspawn activity since it usually points to either a Blight, or preparations for a Blight. Better sniff it out and nip it in the bud than just let it alone and cry "Woe is us!" after.

 

Dwarf: Are you serious? "Dirt people"? Did you sleep through the part where it says that the Dwarves have been successfully fighting and holding the darkspawn at bay for centuries? That the darkspawn have been driving at them again and again endlessly since they first appeared a thousand years ago, and only let up when they go to the surface for a Blight? That the dwarves have basically been dealing with an unending Blight for the last 900 years and still managed to hold their own? That's damned impressive and desirable for the Grey Wardens. Even Loghain, who doesn't think much of the Grey Wardens, comments that it was very sensible for Duncan to choose one of the Orzammar dwarves if he meets a Dwarf Warden.

 

As for each specific origin: The Proving in the Dwarf Commoner is a tournament filled with the best of the best of the seasoned darkspawn veterans, all fighting in single combat to root out who is the most skilled and powerful.That the Dwarf Commoner happens to have humble origins is incidental to Duncan. You, an untrained sellsword, manage to defeat all of Orzammar's most seasoned veterans in single combat.

 

As for the Dwarf Noble, again, the noble and warrior caste have been fighting and holding the darkspawn at bay for centuries. As a noble, it's been your job to fight darkspawn for a long while. Isn't the Dwarf Noble already considered a skilled, celebrated darkspawn fighter? If not, it still makes sense for Duncan to seek out the Orzammar noble and warrior caste to see who's the best fighter since, you know, they've been holding the darkspawn at bay for centuries.


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#65
kimgoold

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@Eirene

 

I believe Nathaniel was the second son, because he said he expected to return from the Free Marches (DAA) to take control of his fathers garrison, would the heir be expected to do that or a younger son? And in DA2 Sebastian says he led Militia and he was the third son.



#66
Han Shot First

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Seems a bit of a stretch, more likely he'd try to recruit Fergus on that basis, as the one who's viewed as less likely to inherit he's more likely to be annoyed, surely? Duncan doesn't seem like the sort not to have a fair idea of the lay of the land before wading in to a situation like that. (I mean, Pup is only more likely to inherit if that's what their parents want, nobody's suggesting they would try to usurp Fergus.)

 

It is a rumor that the younger Cousland is more likely to inherit, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is any truth to it. It could have just been idle gossip by bored servants or soldiers in the castle.

 

I suspect there wasn't any truth to the rumor, because Highever does eventually go to Fergus without any fuss, and there is no option to ask for the boon of having your 'usurper' brother hauled off to the dungeons. Also the Couslands were portrayed as being a close family. I'd give the rumors more weight if Fergus was viewed as a disappointment or his relationship with Bryce was strained, but neither of those seemed to be the case.

 

My guess is that Duncan knew Bryce but wasn't as familiar with the rest of the family, and thought he might be able to bargain for the younger child, but not Fergus who was probably the intended heir.



#67
Aren

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HUMAN NOBLE:  there is also an Alienage in Highever so Highever is a good place to find a new recruit not only the sun of Bryce Cousland but even a city elf. Not to mention that Duncan maybe is sent there from Cailan to take Fergus and his men , so the human noble is plausible, even if Duncan already have warriors or rouges.

Duncan travel from the northwest to south to find the recruits, all the origins are plausible.



#68
Suketchi

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Alright, so apparently this is the thread where everyone goes to dis each other's favorite origin stories? Yay for comradery! SMH 

 

 

City Elf makes no sense, as elves aren't even allowed weapons. (As said by Pol in the Dalish origin)

 

 

 

Objection! So you're saying no one does drugs, simply because their illegal? Also, he knew the City Elf's mother, and knew she passed her skills on to the City Elf. That gives Duncan enough reason to go to the Alienage I think.