That's my canon--Alistair exiled. And I was romancing him. It was the worst. Heartbreaking. But also so narratively meaningful for my character and made the story one of my favorite stories I've ever played.
Oh man, that's icy but fantastic. I cried when I wouldn't let Alistair do the DR (because he's my boyfriend, and no you can't go sleep with that skank Morrigan!) and then he sacrificed himself for me.
Aleia was one of my favourite playthroughs; also, my first.
It's for those of us who've got a gambling problem, Bioware makes a list and sells it to casinos.
Lol, you amuse me. Thank you for wasting my mouthful of coffee. 
Lol, you amuse me. Thank you for wasting my mouthful of coffee.
Sorry, I should come with a coffee advisory warning.
Wait, now I want coffee.
Sorry, I should come with a coffee advisory warning.
Wait, now I want coffee.
It's always a good time for coffee. I'm a bit of an addict, if you can't tell.
It's always a good time for coffee. I'm a bit of an addict, if you can't tell.
Buuuut in efforts to not derail this thread:
How did everyone feel about killing Wynne? I felt like the biggest scum bag.
Lol. Out of likes.
It's all good. Eh, we're taking the thread off topic. But then again, it's coffee, thus it is worthy.
Buuuut in efforts to not derail this thread:
How did everyone feel about killing Wynne? I felt like the biggest scum bag.
I've never killed Wynne. How do I accomplish this heartless deed whilst enjoying a hot mug of java?
I've never killed Wynne. How do I accomplish this heartless deed whilst enjoying a hot mug of java?
I did it by not letting her accompany me through the tower, but I'm sure there are multiple ways.
I've never killed Wynne. How do I accomplish this heartless deed whilst enjoying a hot mug of java?
You either offer to kill Irving during Broken Circle, or defile the Ashes in front of her. She will attack you if you do either.
I went to the tower first, so personally, I just headcannon it this way.I don't think leaving Connor in the castle is the best moral choice at all... it is grossly irresponsible and the fact that nothing happens does not diminish that.
You knew what he did before you broke into the castle.
I do believe it was a missed opportunity on Bioware's behalf.
I went to the tower first, so personally, I just headcannon it this way.
"Alright, Alistair, Wynne, Sten, Zevran- stay here. Alistair, your in charge. If things look like they're getting out of hand, you'll have to kill the kid. I'm making a run to the tower."
There is, after all, no reason in the world to take all 9 party members to the Circle.
I wish they'd actually make you split the party though, like you do at the final battle. That would be the best way to handle it, I think.
I did it by not letting her accompany me through the tower, but I'm sure there are multiple ways.
I suck at doing stuff like this though. I practically play the game the same way, every time, because I'm such a softie. I've tried the different Origins, and different romance stuff (Morrigan, Leliana) but that's as much as I'll diverge. I've even only killed Zevran once.
You either offer to kill Irving during Broken Circle, or defile the Ashes in front of her. She will attack you if you do either.
Wow, I never knew she'd get that upset about contemplating listening to what's-his-face, er, Cullen.
Wow, I never knew she'd get that upset about contemplating listening to what's-his-face, er, Cullen.
Apparently she was trying to save the children from my dastardly self.
I suck at doing stuff like this though. I practically play the game the same way, every time, because I'm such a softie. I've tried the different Origins, and different romance stuff (Morrigan, Leliana) but that's as much as I'll diverge. I've even only killed Zevran once.
Oh I cringed during my evil playthrough, but I've played the game with 6 (now 7 my first ever mage got started last night!~) and have played a different route each time. Of course, there's overlap but still.
Apparently she was trying to save the children from my dastardly self.
Oh yeah, the children. I forgot about them, if Cullen has his paranoid way the children become templar fodder. How could I forget the children? Perhaps I'm a dastard.
Oh I cringed during my evil playthrough, but I've played the game with 6 (now 7 my first ever mage got started last night!~) and have played a different route each time. Of course, there's overlap but still.
I think I'll let you do all the dastardly for me, lest I ruin my coffee with my tear drops.
Wow, I never knew she'd get that upset about contemplating listening to what's-his-face, er, Cullen.
I believe that the dialogue implies that the Warden has actually agreed to do so. That's an order of magnitude more understandable.
It would be nice if being pragmatic yielded the best outcome instead of straight mr nice guy doing nice things for everyone.
It would be nice if being pragmatic yielded the best outcome instead of straight mr nice guy doing nice things for everyone.
I think it should be more unpredictable than that, it should incorporate the law of unintended consequences to make outcomes more unpredictable. Always taking the selfish/pragmatic option is just as boring as always taking the goody-two-shoes route. The outcomes need to be uncertain if they are to be interesting. Sometimes, being a selfish jerk should produce the most ultimately helpful outcome, other times, doing something selfless that seems to offer no apparent payoff should later come back to reward you. Either way, decision -> outcome should not be clear cut.
I really didn't expect Wynne to attack me for turning her down in the tower, its a rather drastic and overzealous reaction, but since she struck first I had no problem killing her and just ran with it.
You didn't just turn her down. The options were (A) help Wynne or (
say you want to kill everyone.
Its typical for most RPGs that give you a choice on how to resolve an issue will, in general, present the more "moral" choice as being more beneficiary for everyone (player included), while the "selfish" choice will result in misery for others. Essentially karma exists, "do good and good things happen," but what of the "path to hell laid with good intentions?"
One of my favorite quest lines from an RPG is the Tenpenny tower, where an elitist community of, mostly though not all, racists hold up in a luxury hotel and refuse to let Ghouls (mutated humans) into their community. After persuading/threatening the most bigoted members of the tower to leave, and convincing the rest that Ghouls really aren't all monsters, the tower lets the Ghouls in. A few days latter the Ghouls kill every single human in the tower at the behest of their leader.
You did the moral thing and the world is a worse place for it.
Now I know if every quest line was like this, a game would get awfully depressing really fast, but isn't one or two in a game at least break the monotony of everything going as the player wished? What about the rest of you, is having a few quest lines where cause and effect trump good intentions something you'd like in this game?
Fallout is classic. One of the reasons why KotOR II is one of my favorite RPGs of all time is entirely because of the dark overtones and the moral ambiguity.
The best example I can explain was the first time the Exile travels to Nar Shaddaa aboard the Ebon Hawk. Kreia is mentoring you and you come across a beggar early on. He asks for credits, and being a compassionate and understanding Jedi, you give him some and he thanks you. Well, beyond your control, he is then intercepted, mugged, and beaten by fellow beggars who saw your generosity and took advantage of him. You attempted to do something positive, and yet something negative occurred as a result. Kreia has many talks with the Exile over the period of the game how blind kindness and compassion will not lead to a better galaxy or salvation. The Force, according to her, was far too mysterious and worked in ways no one could truly understand, making the world truly frightening and unpredictable.
There was also another great example in KotOR I when the main protagonist
So what's the better option? Trying to save as many as you can at the time, knowing more battles will likely happen and kill just as many anyway? Or allowing innocents to die without help for the hopes of gaining a tactical advantage to end the war more quickly? These are true moral dilemmas and there really are no right or wrong answers, as many will die either way. Revan chose the latter, and because of that he was fortunate to cripple the Mandalorian offensive and ultimately bring the war to a close, killing Mandalore the Ultimate.
These are the kinds of choices I appreciate. Being good in a world were there is no good. Making tough choices that nobody should have to make and having to live with those consequences. What truly defines a hero is his greatest villain. Great leaders can only be found in times of great crises and when a nation is at its most bleakest moments. This is what defines greatness. It's time BioWare start providing more moral dilemmas so we can truly be heroes in our actions, and not just by our titles and NPCs praising us.
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