47 réponses à ce sujet

[lizthetimelord]

I do not understand where templars get their powers. In Asunder Evangeline talks about 'using a bit of her power' etc etc, but where does this power come from? It seems like any warrior can be a templar, so it's not something that people are born with, right? Someone told me once that they get the powers from lyrium, but what about when they don't use lyrium, like Alistair? I've been trying to research this on the Wiki and on this forum too, but I haven't found any satisfactory answers. Have these powers ever been explained? 

[lizthetimelord]

I just realized too late that I'm the wrong subforum. How do I move this topic?

[Face of Evil]

Templar powers are derived from lyrium. Alistair's reference to using templar abilities without lyrium has been retconned as him talking out of his ass.

[Samahl]

Templar powers are derived from lyrium. Alistair's reference to using templar abilities without lyrium has been retconned as him talking out of his ass.

 

So... templar Wardens have secretly been lyrium addicts this entire time? As well as templar Hawkes?

[Face of Evil]

Yup.

The Seekers apparently know how to use templar abilities without lyrium.

[Greenface21]

Nothing says dark and gritty like a drug addicted protagonist. 

[Sifr]

The Seekers apparently know how to use templar abilities without lyrium.

 

Which just makes me question why the need for a retcon, if we know that people can use those powers without lyrium? Surely that's better than making Alistair, the Warden and Hawke all suddenly have been huffing lyrium while we weren't looking?

[lizthetimelord]

Templar powers are derived from lyrium. Alistair's reference to using templar abilities without lyrium has been retconned as him talking out of his ass.

 

When/where did this retcon occur? Was it in one of the comics?

 

So... templar Wardens have secretly been lyrium addicts this entire time? As well as templar Hawkes?

 

Yes, this would be odd. And if Alistair were making it up, how was he able to use templar abilities, then?

[X Equestris]

So... templar Wardens have secretly been lyrium addicts this entire time? As well as templar Hawkes?

Not sure you would say "addicts", but yes, they appear to require lyrium for their powers. They may not need as much lyrium as a full-fledged templar, since their powers do seem to be a bit less than Evangeline's, but it is needed. However, based on a screenshot of Cassandra's Templar spec, at least some members of the Seekers of Truth are able to use Templar powers without risk of lyrium addiction.

[Giantdeathrobot]

As I understood it, you never needed Lyrium for the powers, and Alistair says it as far back as Origins, it just enhances them or somesuch. And of course the convenient addiction part.

 

Player characters can use fully powered abilities without taking a drop of the stuff because, well, they are player characters.

[X Equestris]

When/where did this retcon occur? Was it in one of the comics?
 

 
Yes, this would be odd. And if Alistair were making it up, how was he able to use templar abilities, then?

Alistair takes lyrium potions to continue using his powers in one of the comics.

[lizthetimelord]

Yup.

The Seekers apparently know how to use templar abilities without lyrium.

 

Which brings me back to my original question. If lyrium isn't required, how do these powers work?

 

Also, another question I have is why templars can only use anti-magic 'spells'? Why can't they actually do 'proper' magic like summoning a firestorm? Or is lyrium not powerful enough for that?

[lizthetimelord]

Which brings me back to my original question. If lyrium isn't required, how do these powers work?

 

Also, another question I have is why templars can only use anti-magic 'spells'? Why can't they actually do 'proper' magic like summoning a firestorm? Or is lyrium not powerful enough for that?

 

Although I suppose that kind of magic has to be learned, just like hedge mages can't produce Circle-learned magic and vice versa.

[X Equestris]

Which brings me back to my original question. If lyrium isn't required, how do these powers work?
 
Also, another question I have is why templars can only use anti-magic 'spells'? Why can't they actually do 'proper' magic like summoning a firestorm? Or is lyrium not powerful enough for that?

It is required for most people. We don't know how some of the Seekers get their powers.

As for why they can only use anti-magic attacks, I would have to go looking through codexes to see if there were anything definite there.

[Face of Evil]

David Gaider clarifies in this interview that you need to regularly consume lyrium to continue using Templar powers. However, it takes a while for the effects to wear off "as Alistair proves." The implication is that Alistair had taken lyrium at some point before being recruited as a Warden.

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

[X Equestris]

David Gaider clarifies in this interview that you need to regularly consume lyrium to continue using Templar powers. However, it takes a while for the effects to wear off "as Alistair proves."http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

Since he had only been with the Wardens for about six months at the start of Origins, that makes some sense.

[lizthetimelord]

David Gaider clarifies in this interview that you need to regularly consume lyrium to continue using Templar powers. However, it takes a while for the effects to wear off "as Alistair proves."

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

 

That clears some of it up, thanks.

[Yuoaman]

I'm pretty sure all Templars ingest lyrium to use their abilities, even Alistair. I just imagine that enough lyrium hangs around in their system that they don't need to be constantly huffing the stuff, just taking doses now and again, less so if they aren't expecting to need to use their abilities soon.

 

Templars in the Order are probably required to ingest X amount of lyrium per week or something to ensure they're ready to counter mages at any time and to keep them dependent on the Chantry's lyrium supply.

[Face of Evil]

Well, lyrium is incrementally addictive. The longer you're on it, the more you need. Eventually, however, you reach a point where dementia and madness sets in, and no amount of lyrium can prevent that.

[themageguy]

Yup.

The Seekers apparently know how to use templar abilities without lyrium.

The description says the seekers can use the abilities of Templars WITHOUT the addiction of lyrium. It doesn't say they don't use lyrium.

Which makes me wonder do they use a different type of lyrium , or there's something added to make it non addictive.

[themageguy]

Here is the question provided in the link

TUK: The Templar abilities, are they--despite the Chantry's protestations--a form of magic?

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.

[LightningPoodle]

DG: I would say that they are magic, they derive from lyrium, which is magic. The tricky thing there is that the Chantry is awfully hypocritical when it comes to magic, in that there are sorts of magic that they will use. Actually I should take that back, it's not necessarily that they're hypocritical, they don't have anything against magic itself. Magic can be useful, they know the mages are useful. It's the elements of possession and blood magic, all the forbidden magic where things get really dicey. Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. Regardless the magic the Templars use doesn't involve mind control, it's not forbidden magic, there's nothing about it--especially since it can only against mages--there's nothing about it that would make the Chantry step in and go "Wow, that's bad." But then we're talking about a Chantry that also has phylacteries in every Circle, which is a type of blood magic, so there's definitely an element of hypocrisy there.

 

So basically, the Chantry shot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly.

 

"We need a way to track blood mages" - Use blood magic.

 

"We need to stop these mages from using magic" - Use magic.

 

"We need to kill mages" - Make every templar an addict looking for their next fix.

[In Exile]

Which just makes me question why the need for a retcon, if we know that people can use those powers without lyrium? Surely that's better than making Alistair, the Warden and Hawke all suddenly have been huffing lyrium while we weren't looking?

 

It's less of a retcon and more of a weird inconsistency where different media disagrees as to whether lyrium is required. I mean, it's sort of a retcon depending on what you're reading, but it's more just not being able to keep the story straight. 

[themageguy]

So basically, the Chantry shot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly.

"We need a way to track blood mages" - Use blood magic.

"We need to stop these mages from using magic" - Use magic.

"We need to kill mages" - Make every templar an addict looking for their next fix.

hahaha pretty much it would seem.

[In Exile]

So basically, the Chantry shot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly.

 

"We need a way to track blood mages" - Use blood magic.

 

"We need to stop these mages from using magic" - Use magic.

 

"We need to kill mages" - Make every templar an addict looking for their next fix.

The chantry is all kinds of stupid. Their scheme plan to catch potential blood mages is to leave out books that teach you blood magic lying around.