I was very disappointed by the description in Cassandra's ability menu. Seems like a cheap way to keep her "clean".
Power having a price is consistent theme in the setting. It's cheap to make main characters exempt from that price. Either don't have her be a Templar, or have her be a Templar, warts and all. This might be a side-effect of having to shoehorn the companion characters into the three specializations available to player characters.
I was very disappointed by the description in Cassandra's ability menu. Seems like a cheap way to keep her "clean".
Power having a price is consistent theme in the setting. It's cheap to make main characters exempt from that price. Either don't have her be a Templar, or have her be a Templar, warts and all. This might be a side-effect of having to shoehorn the companion characters into the three specializations available to player characters.
But being a lyrium addict isn't a real price. It only seems like a price because the setting keeps forgetting how actively horrible life in the middle ages tended to be in terms of long-term health. Templars have 0 side effects from lyrium unless they're experiencing withdrawal or have been doing it for decades, and at that point it's like the 30 years to death of a GW - falling apart at age 55 is not that unreasonable for the time period anyway.
The entry above for Cassandra seems to bear out what Alistair says in Origins. We were discussing Templar powers and I ask him if he is addicted to lyrium, to which he replies no. He hadn't been a Templar long enough to have taken his final vows after which you start your course of lyrium. (I don't know why he was taking lyrium in the comics if this is the case). Alistair says that as least so far as the basic powers are concerned he feels it is just disciplining your mind and he even suspects that the use of lyrium to enhance these powers was something the Chantry encouraged in order to have a hold over the Templars since the Chantry control the legitimate supply of lyrium (although there was always the black market). So it would seem to some extent what he said was true and the Seekers of Truth know how to channel their powers either without the use of lyrium or in such small amounts they do not risk addiction.
Quite how they do this is a mystery but then that might equally be said to be the case even using lyrium. Mages have to be born that way; you cannot suddenly decide you want to be a mage later in life. However, Templars are simply recruited from a multitude of backgrounds. You could argue that someone like Carver, with magic in his family, always had a low level of magic but was no sufficient for him to be considered a mage. When you hear the reasons why some people become Templars, it is because they have a family connection to magic and the tragedy it can cause, but what of people from families with no magical history whatsoever? On the face of it Evangeline had no such connection. So may be people like that have to use lyrium to work their powers but people with a background of magic can utilise basic powers without. Alistair had a special bloodline and may be this also helped him resist the negative affects of lyrium (assuming that he did take it). Hawke came from a magical family, so ditto. Cassandra comes from a family background of Navarran dragon slayers, so may be there is magic there too. It is possible that the original Seekers of Truth had magical backgrounds without actually being mages; hence their ability to use Templar powers through training without high levels of lyrium consumption. After all mages apparently imbibe refined lyrium potions to boost their mana with no ill effects and apparently no risk of addiction.
It’s not difficult for me to believe that Alistair, a Templar Warden, or a Templar Hawke were quietly taking small doses of lyrium each day. After all, lyrium is not rare, you’re likely to have a dozen lyrium potions in your inventory at any given time, and it’s not indicated how much lyrium is needed to keep a templar’s powers “active”. So why not go on the assumption that Hawke, Alistair and the Warden just take a little sip of a lyrium potion each morning as part of their daily prayers? Works for me. Then maybe Alistair is just talking out of his ass about not needing lyrium because maybe he’s ashamed of his addiction, or just because Alistair sometimes talks out of his ass.
Regarding the Seekers of Truth, my assumption is that they are actually low-intensity mages – that is, born with definite magical talent that means they can use Templar powers without lyrium supplements, like mages would. In terms of there not being a price attached to this power, we don’t know this at all. They could all be using a simple form of blood magic, or they could all be wrestling with demons themselves. Their use of Templar powers without lyrium consumption could take a terrible toll on their bodies, riddling them with tumours by age 50. We just don’t know the full details of what Seekers of Truth go through.
In terms of why Templar powers work at all, I would say that lyrium, being a magical substance, allows non-magical persons to basically “ingest magic” and use magical powers without interacting with the Fade at all. This is why Dwarven warriors can become Templars. The lyrium is volatile, and the body reacts poorly to it, but through a templar’s mental discipline and training, it can be tolerated and even used as fuel to interact with surrounding magical energies. It has no real interaction with the mind of the Templar, which is why Templar powers are not especially powerful or creative compared to mage spells.
This confuses me
David Gaider clarifies in this interview that you need to regularly consume lyrium to continue using Templar powers. However, it takes a while for the effects to wear off "as Alistair proves." The implication is that Alistair had taken lyrium at some point before being recruited as a Warden.
because of this
The entry above for Cassandra seems to bear out what Alistair says in Origins. We were discussing Templar powers and I ask him if he is addicted to lyrium, to which he replies no. He hadn't been a Templar long enough to have taken his final vows after which you start your course of lyrium. (I don't know why he was taking lyrium in the comics if this is the case). Alistair says that as least so far as the basic powers are concerned he feels it is just disciplining your mind and he even suspects that the use of lyrium to enhance these powers was something the Chantry encouraged in order to have a hold over the Templars since the Chantry control the legitimate supply of lyrium (although there was always the black market). So it would seem to some extent what he said was true and the Seekers of Truth know how to channel their powers either without the use of lyrium or in such small amounts they do not risk addiction.
Alistair very clearly tells the Warden in Origins (maybe only if you ask) that he has not taken lyrium, doesn't need it, and that it only enhances the powers. He also exhibits skepticism as to whether it's really about the powers or about controlling the Templars. I see no problem with the Seekers not needing lyrium. I figure it's like steroids - sure, it makes you more powerful, but some people are naturally more powerful than others can be with steroids, etc. That said, I don't remember the context of Alistair taking it in the comics and Gaider's quote seems to ignore what Alistair said in Origins, so now I'm very confused.
My theory is that the seekers of truth were originally born with their powers. They were not quite mages, but could do some magical stuff. So low-key, that spirits never even entered the equation.
These seekers were very adept at fighting mages, this was noticed by the oh-so-hypocritical chantry, and they were forced to find a way to teach normal people to use their ability. Since the abilities required a lot less fade-power than actual mage abilities, it was found that normal people could also do this with lyrium.
It was only later learned that the stuff is addictive in the long term and that after a life-time of lyrium, you go mad, but that's the price to pay.
This is what makes most sense to me. If the explanation is otherwise, bioware will provide it. And I have no qualms accepting that my PC needed to chug lyrium potions off-screen to maintain this ability. Nor do I have any problem believing that alistair would be one of the seeker-born. He IS of dragon blood after all 
Red lyrium in DAI will probably turn out to be even more powerful, giving normal people even more access to fade abilities than blue lyrium, but at the price of even more addiction and fast madness.
Perhaps it is not that you "have" to become lyrium addicted - but rather that most templars "do" become addicted because they want to constantly boost their powers.
The Seekers of Truth might have perfected the time requirements for the lyrium infusions in such a way as to avoid addiction but maintain their gifts.
Perhaps it is not that you "have" to become lyrium addicted - but rather that most templars "do" become addicted because they want to constantly boost their powers.
The Seekers of Truth might have perfected the time requirements for the lyrium infusions in such a way as to avoid addiction but maintain their gifts.
IDK, but on the seeker/templar differences - in one codex entry the Seekers of Truth are even said to be immune to and/or able to resist blood magic. If they resist lyrium addiction also perhaps its all just a mental thing most templars are too weak to overcome.
Great idea
I also think it could be either a rare type of lyrium they use or similar to what you said, something in how they use/ prepare the lyrium that either suppresses or gets rid of lyrium addiction.
I've heard that theory too, but not completely sold on it yet. The seekers recruit mostly from the templar ranks, and those who show exceptional skill in battle etc. Otherwise the seekers would recruit hedge mages to become a seeker, not police them or allow templars to capture/ kill them.I've heard the theory that those who join the Seekers right away, not being a Templar first, might be people who fell just short of being born mages and as such need smaller amounts of lyrium for their powers.
Which brings me back to my original question. If lyrium isn't required, how do these powers work?
Also, another question I have is why templars can only use anti-magic 'spells'? Why can't they actually do 'proper' magic like summoning a firestorm? Or is lyrium not powerful enough for that?
Dude I really would not give much thought when it comes to the various cockamamie elements of Dragon Age lore, the writers themselves did not when they were writing it so why should you? Do Loghain's actions make sense given his motivations?
Nope, does Alistair's Mary Sue half elf/quarter dragon blood origin retcon make sense? Hell no, does it make sense that in Qunari society the guy without horns is considered more scary than the bug dude with the massive antlers growing out of his head? Of course not.
Honestly the fans put far more effort into trying to make these ridiculous snippets of lore work than the writers ever did, of course the fans efforts usually end up punching even more plot holes in the lore as their explanations usually contradict another snippet of lore but that is to be expected when the series lore is so poorly thought out.
David Gaider clarifies in this interview that you need to regularly consume lyrium to continue using Templar powers. However, it takes a while for the effects to wear off "as Alistair proves." The implication is that Alistair had taken lyrium at some point before being recruited as a Warden.
http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html
Oh yah that make perfect sense, now we just need to erase the part about the Warden using Templar powers without drinking Lyrium as well.
OMG dooooooooood, the Warden can use Templar POWAR cause he was baptized in a tub of lyrium as a child, liek srsly fo realz.
Then again it could be that Darkspawn blood is laced with lyrium thus giving the Wardens Kryptonian skin cells that allow them to absorb the suns rays and use TEMPLAR POWAR!
This confuses me
because of this
Alistair very clearly tells the Warden in Origins (maybe only if you ask) that he has not taken lyrium, doesn't need it, and that it only enhances the powers. He also exhibits skepticism as to whether it's really about the powers or about controlling the Templars. I see no problem with the Seekers not needing lyrium. I figure it's like steroids - sure, it makes you more powerful, but some people are naturally more powerful than others can be with steroids, etc. That said, I don't remember the context of Alistair taking it in the comics and Gaider's quote seems to ignore what Alistair said in Origins, so now I'm very confused.
I've heard that theory too, but not completely sold on it yet. The seekers recruit mostly from the templar ranks, and those who show exceptional skill in battle etc.
Nothing in Cassandra's spec description talks about the Templars who joined the Seekers. Cassandra was never a Templar, she's a pure Seeker.
She joined them not long after her brother died. In DoTS, she refer to herself has a child when her brother was killed and was a full Seeker at an age normal Templars are still in training (15-18 years old).
I've got DOTS on blu ray lol.Nothing in Cassandra's spec description talks about the Templars who joined the Seekers. Cassandra was never a Templar, she's a pure Seeker.
She joined them not long after her brother died. In DoTS, she refer to herself has a child when her brother was killed and was a full Seeker at an age normal Templars are still in training (15-18 years old).
My theory is that the "joining" the seekers go through in order to gain their powers is a more refined version, than what templars have. The timeline would go like this:
1. The anti-mage warriors are created through ingesting lyrium in a ritual, however this has the risk of addiction and slowly decaying the body and mind. This is what templars use currently.
2. Someone found a way to refine this process and eliminate the disadvantages, so this new process started production. However several anti-mage warriors became dissastified with the chantry leadership, challenged it, or otherwise disobeyed it (maybe went hunting mages on their own). Therefore the chantry decided that she needed some measure of control over these warriors, so reverted to the original process which was addictive, assuring the loyalty of their anti-mage warriors.
3. The seekers somehow manage to convince the chantry that they are loyal, and the chantry allows a small elite of them to remain using the refined joining, while the vas majority becomes templars who use the old ritual.
I've got DOTS on blu ray lol.
I wasn't talking about the description in her spec tree either. I was talking about the seekers in general, and why i didn't agree with a particular theory.
As for seekers recruiting from templar ranks, i found that info here
http://dragonage.wik...eekers_of_Truth and im sure it was mentioned somewhere else.
Im not saying they recruit exclusively from Templar ranks, Cassandra being a fine example, but they do seem to get a majority of them from the order.
Lord Seeker Lambert was an imperial Templar before becoming a seeker, and is a good example of seekers recruiting from templar ranks.
The information about the Seekers being mostly Templars come from the BioWare featurette on DotS DVD. It's mentioned that none-Templar Seekers are rare (and it's not something you sign up for, you get recruited into the Order). The Templars-Seekers were trained as Templars first, they should be addicted to Lyrium still.
Cassandra was recruited into the Seeker has a child. This suggest a pre-condition so rare that the Seeker would recruit a child into their Order.
The information about the Seekers being mostly Templars come from the BioWare featurette on DotS DVD. It's mentioned that none-Templar Seekers are rare (and it's not something you sign up for, you get recruited into the Order). The Templars-Seekers were trained as Templars first, they should be addicted to Lyrium still.
Cassandra was recruited into the Seeker has a child. This suggest a pre-condition so rare that the Seeker would recruit a child into their Order.
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