You have to have Rivalry with her, not play matchmaker with her and Donnic and Complete "Favor and Fault" in specific manner.
The wiki also says that Fenris needs to be at 100% rivalry/friendship and have all his personal quests completed. It shouldn't be possible to lose both Fenris and Aveline. This was probably implemented for gameplay reasons, to prevent the player from accidentally losing the party's only two warriors right before the final battle.
The wiki also says that Fenris needs to be at 100% rivalry/friendship and have all his personal quests completed. It shouldn't be possible to lose both Fenris and Aveline. This was probably implemented for gameplay reasons, to prevent the player from accidentally losing the party's only two warriors right before the final battle.
Then the wiki is wrong. You can lose both mages when siding with the templars, so why not warriors?
Then the wiki is wrong. You can lose both mages when siding with the templars, so why not warriors?
Merrill will only leave if Anders is a 100% rival with all his quests completed - meaning that he can be persuaded to turn against the mages. You can then decide to execute Anders or make him leave the party, but that's a choice, not a predetermined outcome. So you won't accidentally lose all your mages.
Did you lose both Fenris and Aveline in-game ? Where did you get the screenshot ?
Merrill will only leave if Anders is a 100% rival with all his quests completed - meaning that he can be persuaded to turn against the mages. You can then decide to execute Anders or make him leave the party, but that's a choice, not a predetermined outcome. So you won't accidentally lose all your mages.
Did you lose both Fenris and Aveline in-game ? Where did you get the screenshot ?
I'm not saying accidentally lose both. Yes, it's a choice to execute Anders, which is perfectly in line with your siding with the Templars, no?
Yes, I did. You can have my save pre-The Last Straw, if you want. It's designed to lose either both mages or both warriors, depending on your choice.
I'm not saying accidentally lose both. Yes, it's a choice to execute Anders, which is perfectly in line with your siding with the Templars, no?
Yes, I did. You can have my save pre-The Last Straw, if you want. It's designed to lose either both mages or both warriors, depending on your choice.
You asked what was the difference between losing the two warriors or the two mages, I told you what that difference was: losing both warriors is dependent on what you did or didn't do before and can't be changed, but you can't lose both mages unless you actively make it happen by getting rid of Anders.
So what did you do (or didn't do) to make it happen ? The Keep doesn't recognize that situation as a valid worldstate.
So what did you do (or didn't do) to make it happen ? The Keep doesn't recognize that situation as a valid worldstate.
I already described in the post you quoted previously. The wiki is wrong in another aspect as well: Fenris doesn't have to be on Rivalry route for Aveline to leave.
I already described in the post you quoted previously. The wiki is wrong in another aspect as well: Fenris doesn't have to be on Rivalry route for Aveline to leave.
The wiki doesn't say that, and neither did I. It says Fenris at 100% friendship OR rivalry.
You described what you did to lose Aveline, but not to lose Aveline and Fenris at the same time.
The wiki doesn't say that, and neither did I. It says Fenris at 100% friendship OR rivalry.
You described what you did to lose Aveline, but not to lose Aveline and Fenris at the same time.
I thought it was obvious - not have his Questioning Beliefs A3 completed.
Thanks for helping me with that though. That's going to be my only evilHawke worldstate. I intended to have him return Fenris to Denarius and lose Aveline's support. DA2 was bad about having followers bend to Hawke too much though. So Aveline will always be loyal in mine, I guess. I wish we could contradict what's possible in past games to set up better worldstates more, when it's something that doesn't make sense like that. I'll headcanon it as bloodmage Hawke manipulating Aveline, lol.
One thing I didn't mention in this thread before that I really want to have are character building choices for player characters, that are not tied to pre-existing in-game questions. To help define your characters' views, motivation, and behaviour for future appearances, so that it's as direct and simple a translation as possible. I went into it a little more in Johnny Shepard's '(My Feedback)' thread, first page.
I thought it was obvious - not have his Questioning Beliefs A3 completed.
Well of course it's not obvious. You are literally the first person I've seen saying the situation is even possible when everything else tells me it's not: the DA Wiki, IGN Guide, gamerguides, the Keep itself, no Youtube videos of this outcome. If none of them found this outcome it must have some pretty specific pre-requisites.
Well of course it's not obvious. You are literally the first person I've seen saying the situation is even possible when everything else tells me it's not: the DA Wiki, IGN Guide, gamerguides, the Keep itself, no Youtube videos of this outcome. If none of them found this outcome it must have some pretty specific pre-requisites.
Heh. My pleasure, now you do:
I'm surprised more people didn't know you could lose Fenris and Aveline. It comes up often in "Kill everyone" topics.
... Does it say something bad about me that I've read threads like that?
Casting my vote for Sebastian Friend/Rival tiles, as well as Gaxxkang, Xebenkeck, and the Warden's boon.
Heh. My pleasure, now you do:
thanks for posting this 
a question, right before the final fight with meredith there is a cutscene where if fenris left he will confront and attack hawke and while if aveline left she will confront hawke with some templars and then leave throwing her sword. i'm curious what cutscene trigger if both leave.
thanks for posting this
Both, just as with Anders and Merrill. Confrontation scenes are triggered at different locations, so they don't overlap.
Both, just as with Anders and Merrill. Confrontation scenes are triggered at different locations, so they don't overlap.
ok thanks 
What I really would like to see more than anything is whether or not Hawke earned the respect of the Arishok. Right now, the decisions you can take only allow you to give Isabella to the Arishok so he lives, or you kill him. Personally, I found the Qunari to be the most interesting part of DA2, and whether Hawke earned the respect of the Arishok completely changed the context of those events, and I find it very frustrating that it's not here.
Anyone else feel the same?
What I really would like to see more than anything is whether or not Hawke earned the respect of the Arishok. Right now, the decisions you can take only allow you to give Isabella to the Arishok so he lives, or you kill him. Personally, I found the Qunari to be the most interesting part of DA2, and whether Hawke earned the respect of the Arishok completely changed the context of those events, and I find it very frustrating that it's not here.
Anyone else feel the same?
That was actually in a poll during closed beta and that choice won it's poll.
Jowan's fate.
I looked for this in the Keep and it just wasn't there.
Also I hate haaaate how I can not kill Wyne without siding with the templars and killing first enchanter. I did not side with the Templars and I did not kill the first enchanter however I agreed with Morrigan to kil Wynne and those mages to release them from their Half-life. The most I can choose is Wynn not recruited.
Most of the Da2 ones did not matter too me since I never had anyone die or leave except Sebastian.
Well on my main playthrough anyway. Alot of people died and left on my secondary character.
Renvil Harrowmont's fate as well.
I'm sorry but Renvil Harrowmont's fate will have a boatload of consequences considering the nature of Orzammar and Kal-Sharok.
Jowan's fate
Ander's fate
Basically everyone's fate
I demand mastery over life and death
Jowan's fate
Ander's fate
Basically everyone's fate
I demand mastery over life and death
Anders is in there.
I can't do anything about the original post, of course, but I'll do it here. It'll compile it, at least.
Fate of Genitivi and Respect of the Arishok not included, since they already will be added. I didn't include Anders and Justice in the 'other Awakening companions' category, since we already know what happened to them no matter what, or Nathaniel since he's already there in a different place.
I added the things I noticed were missing as well, and counted myself down as having mentioned them if they already appeared. The score marks are the number of different requestes for the same things I noticed.
Edited to include information from the 'Things missing from the keep' thread up to page 5 (prior to my post there) in the other area as well.
DA:O requests so far
Shale's Memories Returned ||||| ||||| |
Companion Quest Outcomes for Zevran, Wynne, and Oghren |||||
Fate of Ser Cauthrien ||||| ||||
Fate of Vaughan ||||| |
Fate of Caladrius ||||| ||
Dragon Cult (Kolgrim and the Dragon) ||||| ||||| ||
Haven Empty or Not |||||
Meteorite Ore |||
Alistair/Leliana: Hardened or Not ||||| |
Fate of Jowan ||||| ||||| |||
Warden's Boon ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| |
Starfang Forged or Not, Nature ||||| ||
Unfinished Romance With Other LI |||||
Fate of Desire Demon & Templar in Broken Circle |||||
Ageless: Received or Not ||||
Oghren Clarification ||||| ||
Blackstone Irregulars ||||| ||
Mage's Collective ||||| ||
Warden Left/Stayed in Denerim ||||
Slave Trade in the Alienage ||||| |||
Who is Bann of the Alienage? ||||| ||||
Soris: Jailed or Free ||||| |||
Gaxxkang ||||| ||||
Isabela at the Pearl ||||| ||||
Was the Warden a Blood Mage? |||||
Ashes Revealed to the World? ||||| |
Friendship with Morrigan ||||| |
Proving of Orzammar ||||
Slept With Gheyna and Brought Gheyna and Cammen Together Option ||||
Spared Blood Mage During Broken Circle? ||||
Golems of Amgarrak ||||
Fort Drakon Outcome ||||
Cailan's Body ||||| ||
Asunder |||||
Great Oak/Mad Hermit In Woods |||||
Legion of the Dead: Aided in Final Battle or No? ||||
Side With Elves, Kill Zathrian |||||
Aeducan Warden: Heir to Orzammar? |||
Status of Warden's Family/Friends from Origin ||||
Did Warden Have/Keep Morrigan's Ring? ||||
Warden Took Grimoire, Didn't Give It To Morrigan Option ||||
Origin-Specific Choices (other than Dwarf Noble) |||
Votes at Landsmeet ||
Gave Schmooples to Leliana ||
What Happened With Rigby's Lockbox? |||
Redcliffe: Did Everyone Make It? |
Fate of Cailan's Armour |
Wade: Paid For Armour Or Not? |
Friends of Red Jenny ||
Option: Exile Avernus ||
DA:A requests so far
Fate of Sigrun ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ||
Fate of Velanna ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ||
Fate of Oghren ||||| ||||| ||||| |||
Fate of Hunger Demon in "A Maiden in Distress" ||||
Fate of the Darkspawn Messenger ||||| ||||| |
Memories of Stone Completion ||||| ||
Possibility of Orlesian Warden-Commander ||||| |||
A Brewing Conspiracy Resolution ||||| ||
Smuggler's or Law in Amaranthine ||||| |||
Vigilance's Nature ||||| |||||
Make Awakening Separate and Move Nathaniel There ||||| ||||
Dworkin's Explosives |||
Alec in the Army ||||| ||
Peasant Revolt ||||| |
Fate of Caged Guy (Steafan) ||||
Tevinter Magister in the Woods: Killed? |||
Sigrun and Velanna's Personal Quests |||||
Founding of the Silver Order ||||| ||
Court Decisions |||| ||
Relationship Status of Warden Commander/Companions |||
What Did Wade Make? ||||
Which Nobles Live? ||
Fate of Rylock ||
Defending the Land ||
A Daughter Ransomed ||
The Blight Orphans |||
Brothers of Stone Decision ||
DA II requests so far
Sebastian Friend/Rival ||||| ||||
Fate of Ella (all choices) ||||| |||
Fate of Samson ||||| ||
Fate of Castillon ||||
Athenril/Meeran Outcome |||
No Rest For The Wicked ||||| ||
Sebastian Vowing Vengeance ||||| ||
Sebastian: King or Chantry ||||| ||
Fate of Fenris' Sister (Varania) ||||| ||||| |
Bethany/Carver: Friends or Rivals |||||
More Anders' Fate Options ||||
Loose Ends Completion/Manner ||||| |
Changing One's Nature |||||
Last of His Line ||||| |||
Terror on the Coast |||||
A Debt in the Family |||
The Lost Swords ||||| |
Xebenkeck ||||| ||||
Was the Champion a Blood Mage? ||||
Romances: Friendship or Rivalry? ||||| |||||
Dumat Altar (Defile or Sacrifice) |||||
Fate of Alain ||||
Black Vials ||||
Hybris ||||
Pirates and their Curses ||||
The Du Lac Sign |||
Fate of Orana |||||
Aveline: Friend or Rival? |||||
Gave Money to Walter and Cricket? |||
Fates of Dursten, Roland, and Alec ||
All Companions: Friend or Rival? ||||
The Lost Hounds ||
Secret Rendezvous ||
Did The Champion Hear Sandal's Prophecy? |
Red Jenny ||
I would like to add a few
Origins:
Did the Warden complete The Last request?
Did the Warden cure the poisoned Dwarf Nobel?
Did the Warden discover the secret of Cadash Thaig? (Witch Hunt)
Awakening:
Did the Warden find all of Malerafs canticles?
DA2:
Did Hawke slay Malvernis? (Legacy)
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