In the DA: Keep, selecting the choice to help Yevhen find his sons (DA2; Act 2) it requires me to make the change of Nathianel Howe being dead. I don't remember Howe have being killed to do this quest?
Is this a bug? Or am I just remembering things completely wrong?
In the DA: Keep, selecting the choice to help Yevhen find his sons (DA2; Act 2) it requires me to make the change of Nathianel Howe being dead. I don't remember Howe have being killed to do this quest?
Is this a bug? Or am I just remembering things completely wrong?
you are remembering things incorrectly.
For the Yevhen quest to appear in DA2 Nathaniel Howe had to die in Awakenings, if he didnt die, then you gained a quest featuring him in DA2 instead.
I think you might be remembering it wrong. I had the same thing. However, on my play through where he survives, I don't remember doing that quest and I'm a completionist.
It isn't a bug The quest with Yevhen only happens if Nathaniel died in Awakening.
I found this odd as well but like others have said the quest only appears if Nathaniel is dead.
However I don't see why that should matter in the Keep? Is there a specific plot reason that quest is only available if Nathaniel is dead?
It isn't a bug The quest with Yevhen only happens if Nathaniel died in Awakening.
Wrong. The quest also happens if Nathaniel stayed at the keep and lived. This is a save import oversight and wasn't supposed to happen.
I found this odd as well but like others have said the quest only appears if Nathaniel is dead.
However I don't see why that should matter in the Keep? Is there a specific plot reason that quest is only available if Nathaniel is dead?
If Nathaniel is alive, DA2 gives you a quest involving him. If Nathaniel is dead, it replaces the Nathaniel quest with the one with Yehven. You are not supposed to have both available in the same playthrough.
If Nathaniel is alive, DA2 gives you a quest involving him. If Nathaniel is dead, it replaces the Nathaniel quest with the one with Yehven. You are not supposed to have both available in the same playthrough.
I know that, what I was asking is if there is a plot reason behind it or if they just wanted to fill the Nathaniel quest with something else if he's dead and there's no real reason behind the quest being locked out if Nathaniel is alive.
The "Yevhen and sons" quest and Nathaniel's quest are mutually exclusive in DA2.
The "Yevhen and sons" quest and Nathaniel's quest are mutually exclusive in DA2.
The "Yevhen and sons" quest and Nathaniel's quest are mutually exclusive in DA2.
Yeah I often saw both in my playthroughs, but if you did Yevhen's quest, you couldn't pursue Nathaniel's quest in the third act.
I'm not sure what the reasoning was b/c I always did Nathaniel's but I think the story reason was that Nathaniel got the Deep Roads info from Yehven somehow maybe? And thus didn't need to talk to Bartrand, and thus Delilah never overheard anything, so she never sought out Hawke.
That is a very shaky recollection at best, however and may be wildly inaccurate.
Wrong. The quest also happens if Nathaniel stayed at the keep and lived. This is a save import oversight and wasn't supposed to happen.
Wrong. Nathaniel has to be dead. The oversight is actually as follows, any characters that stayed in the keep are marked as dead whether alive or not when a save game is imported as such, Nathaniel cannot have stayed in the keep and lived in DA II as you suggest. (I'm being super duper nit-picky about what you wrote here 
)
I'm not sure what the reasoning was b/c I always did Nathaniel's but I think the story reason was that Nathaniel got the Deep Roads info from Yehven somehow maybe? And thus didn't need to talk to Bartrand, and thus Delilah never overheard anything, so she never sought out Hawke.
That is a very shaky recollection at best, however and may be wildly inaccurate.
But is there a plot reason or is it just a gameplay reason?
Both quests take place in the same location, so I guess it's a mix of both plot and gameplay.
Perhaps Nathaniel killed the darkspawn that would have otherwise trapped Yevhen's sons.
At the same time, perhaps BioWare didn't want us to have two quests in the same section in the Deep Roads. The game was notorious for recycling environments, but recycling the same section of the Deep Roads (which is supposed to be vast) might have looked even more ridiculous on the developers' part.
Wrong. Nathaniel has to be dead. The oversight is actually as follows, any characters that stayed in the keep are marked as dead whether alive or not when a save game is imported as such, Nathaniel cannot have stayed in the keep and lived in DA II as you suggest. (I'm being super duper nit-picky about what you wrote here
Yes, that is called a bug, because those characters, as of the epilogue of DA:A didn't die at the keep. They were alive, yet DA 2 registered them as being dead. That's what Fredvdp meant. These characters are supposed to be alive, yet they aren't in DA 2. That among other frequent save import bugs and engine changes is the reason we have the keep now for DAI and future games.
Yes, that is called a bug, because those characters, as of the epilogue of DA:A didn't die at the keep. They were alive, yet DA 2 registered them as being dead. That's what Fredvdp meant. These characters are supposed to be alive, yet they aren't in DA 2. That among other frequent save import bugs and engine changes is the reason we have the keep now for DAI and future games.
Lol you just paraphrased my paraphrase.
Even in my benevolent paragon type play throughs I normally kill nathaniel. I think I spared him once just to see that happens afterwards. Whether they intended to or not BioWare made it very difficult for me to have a good reason for not dispatching him, much like Zevran, games where I let them live I had to clench my teeth to do so.
Even in my benevolent paragon type play throughs I normally kill nathaniel. I think I spared him once just to see that happens afterwards. Whether they intended to or not BioWare made it very difficult for me to have a good reason for not dispatching him, much like Zevran, games where I let them live I had to clench my teeth to do so.
I had gotten the quest once but only once and it was my 3rd round I think I went through the game in Da2 like 10 times not sure.
Even in my benevolent paragon type play throughs I normally kill nathaniel. I think I spared him once just to see that happens afterwards. Whether they intended to or not BioWare made it very difficult for me to have a good reason for not dispatching him, much like Zevran, games where I let them live I had to clench my teeth to do so.
WHYYYY.
Even my Good Cousland spared him and made him a Warden. I mean, come on, you need as many Wardens (companions lol) as you can get, and it's not like Nate tried to kill you. Though I suppose my Cousland was a very Diplomatic person - she could see past his minor annoyances. Nathaniel always ended up being one of my favorite Awakening companions - in the end my warden showed him the truth about his father and her family, and they were best buds after. Don't know why I didn't bring him in my party at the end of my most recent Awakening playthrough - I had to use a console code to activate "Finding Nathaniel".
There are many examples of characters who seem like complete assholes, but are really quite different on the inside once you get to know 'em. Once you get past their outer layers (not literally, Zevran!!), they can be the nicest friends. I got those adorable feels when Morrigan told my warden she was like a sister to her 
.
I have no idea why you don't like Zevran though, so I guess you're just that kind of person... lol.
Nathaniel is different for me, at least a little, because unlike Zevran he doesn't try to fight or kill the Warden. He kills no one during his break-in and is a relatively docile prisoner. He gives the Warden a little lip, confesses he thought about trying to take revenge, and then says he's really not sure what the hell he does want now. None of those is a particularly ironclad reason to have him executed.
It's certainly not on the level of Zevran, Loghain, or Velanna, all of whom do kill loads of other people and all of whom also try to kill the Warden. With those characters, I find it difficult to roleplay an intelligent character keeping them alive - without metagaming the knowledge that they can become companions and won't betray me - but with Nathaniel, I don't have that problem.
YMMV, I guess?
I don't know what YMMV means you will have to enlighten me,
Natrhaniel for me was almost no different than zevran he admits he was going to try and kill you not, mused about it. The only thing stopping his attempt was he had been arrested.
He also starts berating you immediately for harming his poor old paw. The same guy that killed my family and betrayed my land. In reality no matter what tyep of group I was putting together a logicla person would never take zevran howe sten velanna or any of their ilk. BioWare seems to like to give you companions that in rational mind one would have nothing to do with.
WHYYYY.
Even my Good Cousland spared him and made him a Warden. I mean, come on, you need as many Wardens (companions lol) as you can get, and it's not like Nate tried to kill you. Though I suppose my Cousland was a very Diplomatic person - she could see past his minor annoyances. Nathaniel always ended up being one of my favorite Awakening companions - in the end my warden showed him the truth about his father and her family, and they were best buds after. Don't know why I didn't bring him in my party at the end of my most recent Awakening playthrough - I had to use a console code to activate "Finding Nathaniel".
There are many examples of characters who seem like complete assholes, but are really quite different on the inside once you get to know 'em. Once you get past their outer layers (not literally, Zevran!!), they can be the nicest friends. I got those adorable feels when Morrigan told my warden she was like a sister to her
I have no idea why you don't like Zevran though, so I guess you're just that kind of person... lol.
Eh? What do you mean? He flat out admits he came to kill you and prokptly admits he has it in for you because of what you did to his father the good man. What rational perosn is going to embrace a guy that says he wants to kill you, is the son of a sworn enemy with revenge on his mind. Bah! The murder knife for him! (Which is too bad because he is a useful character ability wise.)
Nathaniel can die by two ways I know of at least:
1)You hang him first time you meet him
2)You leave him at Keep and chose to save city leaving keep to be destroyed by darkspawn
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