989 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

RGB casts a great deal of doubt on the "worthiness" of the ending.

Stopping the Reapers' cycle of extermination is far beyond "worthy". Suggesting otherwise is, quite frankly, silly.
 

And while Shepard has been railroaded into dying before.  This one sticks, which p*sses people off.

Shepard didn't seem to take too kindly to death in the Destroy ending.

Even if they did all end in Shepard's death, those were the stakes and it's not within your power to alter the stakes, as it's always been in Mass Effect's ending parameters. Shepard's been living on borrowed time since Lazarus worked its resurrection magic anyway.

[AlanC9]

Stopping the Reapers' cycle of extermination is far beyond "worthy". Suggesting otherwise is, quite frankly, silly.

This might have been a non-rational point; the ending doesn't feel worthy to him even though he knows it is. It's a little difficult to tell with Iakus.

[Iakus]

Stopping the Reapers' cycle of extermination is far beyond "worthy". Suggesting otherwise is, quite frankly, silly.
 

THen I guess I and a lot of other people are "silly"  Hopefully Weekes, Walters and others will keep that in mind next time.

 

 

Shepard didn't seem to take too kindly to death in the Destroy ending.

 

Even if they did all end in Shepard's death, those were the stakes and it's not within your power to alter the stakes, as it's always been in Mass Effect's ending parameters. Shepard's been living on borrowed time since Lazarus worked its resurrection magic anyway.

 

Walking into an explosion?  Seemed to be seeking it if you ask me.

 

Not being able to "alter the stakes" is kinda the crux of the anger re Shepard's death you know.  In a game about altering destiny and breaking cycles, not being able to do the same for the freaking protagonist sours it for a lot of people.

[themikefest]

Aside from it taking a lot of close-ranged firepower to get the tube to pop? http://tvtropes.org/.../NotAfraidToDie

I'm not into the trope stuff. I know if I had my femshep from ME1/ME2, she would not do that, but apparently her stunt double wanted to

 

Because it's a worthy cause.

 

Duh 

 

No its not.

 

Why wasn't it just an off switch?

That would be too easy. Not enough sacrifice

[Iakus]

This might have been a non-rational point; the ending doesn't feel worthy to him even though he knows it is. It's a little difficult to tell with Iakus.

 

No, it doesn't feel worthy.  Not for something billed as "entertainment" I do not feel the ends always justify the means.  Some "gifts" come at too high a price.

[AlanC9]

Except that you don't actually mean that, or you'd Refuse.

[Iakus]

Except that you don't actually mean that, or you'd Refuse.

Perhaps if I could actually get through an unmodded ME3 game, I would.

 

But you know, galactic extinction isn't fun for me either.  "Art" maybe.  But not entertainment

[AlanC9]

Yeah, I thought dreamgazer was making a mistake there. Wrong kind of worthiness.

[dreamgazer]

THen I guess I and a lot of other people are "silly"  Hopefully Weekes, Walters and others will keep that in mind next time.

In a way, yeah, the folks who look at ending the Reaper invasion as an unworthy cause are "silly", since there's nothing at all more important than preservation.

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival." - Winston Churchill
 

Walking into an explosion?  Seemed to be seeking it if you ask me.

Big difference between seeking death and not being afraid to die. I can assure you that none of my Shepards sought death.
 

Not being able to "alter the stakes" is kinda the crux of the anger re Shepard's death you know.  In a game about altering destiny and breaking cycles, not being able to do the same for the freaking protagonist sours it for a lot of people.

Shepard's "destiny" has been railroaded every step of the way across the trilogy, though, from a mandatory beacon sacrifice and becoming a Spectre to a mandatory death and cooperation with Cerberus.
 

I'm not into the trope stuff. I know if I had my femshep from ME1/ME2, she would not do that, but apparently her stunt double wanted to

There's the good possibility your Shepard from ME1 and ME2 wouldn't have been able to do enough damage to make the tube pop. You have access to your firearm from a distance in ME3's ending, and it ain't too effective.

[themikefest]

There's the good possibility your Shepard from ME1 and ME2 wouldn't have been able to do enough damage to make the tube pop. You have access to your firearm from a distance in ME3's ending, and it ain't too effective.

So the handgun can't do the same amount of damage from 50 feet away as it would do 2 feet away?

[dreamgazer]

So the handgun can't do the same amount of damage from 50 feet away as it would do 2 feet away?

To the tube's structural integrity? Doesn't seem like it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Big difference between seeking death and not being afraid to die. I can assure you that none of my Shepards sought death.

 

I don't know. The Catalyst doesn't actually say anything about shooting the tube, Shepard just decides to start shooting at it.

[Vazgen]

Shepard can barely stand, you want him to shoot from the distance? Ever tried headshotting those husks? I did once

Spoiler

[ImaginaryMatter]

Shepard can barely stand, you want him to shoot from the distance? Ever tried headshotting those husks? I did once

Spoiler

 

I usually headshot the husks and Marauder Shields (R.I.P.). Shepard is use to shooting things at a distance with wobbly aim ever since the ME1 Sniper Rifle.

[themikefest]

To the tube's structural integrity? Doesn't seem like it.

The only way for the handgun not to be as effective at very close range, is to fire the weapon beyond its range and I doubt 50 feet is out of it's range.

[themikefest]

Shepard can barely stand, you want him to shoot from the distance? Ever tried headshotting those husks? I did once

Spoiler

Why not? The tube is a large object and would be hard to miss from about 50 feet.

[dreamgazer]

I don't know. The Catalyst doesn't actually say anything about shooting the tube, Shepard just decides to start shooting at it.

After the images of Anderson popping the tube flash before Shepard's eyes, after the Catalyst says it's in his/her power to destroy them. But sure, I guess BioWare could have mundanely had the Catalyst explain that Shepard needs to shoot the tube to enact destruction on the Reapers. Or had the Catalyst explain that he'd be communicating things through telepathy, like the Leviathan and the Thorian and the Reapers.

[Iakus]

So the handgun can't do the same amount of damage from 50 feet away as it would do 2 feet away?

Your handgun is unworthy

[ImaginaryMatter]

After the images of Anderson popping the tube flash before Shepard's eyes, after the Catalyst says it's in his/her power to destroy them. But sure, I guess BioWare could have mundanely had the Catalyst explain that Shepard needs to shoot the tube to enact destruction on the Reapers. Or had the Catalyst explain that he'd be communicating things through telepathy, like the Leviathan and the Thorian and the Reapers.

 

I assume that was Shepard's own mind. He has a pretty active imagination.

 

If I was Shepard I would be asking if there was a switch or something.

[themikefest]

Your handgun is unworthy

Mine isn't, but the one Bioware uses is

[dreamgazer]

Why not? The tube is a large object and would be hard to miss from about 50 feet.

It takes many precise shots from extreme close range to pop the tube. I doubt it's made of the kind of flimsy material that'll just shatter with wobbly, ungrouped rounds fired at it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

It takes many precise shots from extreme close range to pop the tube. I doubt it's made of the kind of flimsy material that'll just shatter with wobbly, ungrouped rounds fired at it.

 

The gun wobble disappears once Shepard goes up the beam. If you stand still you can easily hit the exact same spot on the tube no matter how far away from it you are. I'm not sure what mods the Carnifax uses but I assume they're some sort of accuracy version.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'm honestly not sure now if I went into ME3 expecting Shepard to die, but I don't have a problem with Shepard dying, and in fact I'd say it should be at least a possibility in any set of potential endings. The first time I finished the game, I wasn't so much angry or sad about the endings or about Shepard dying so much as I just had a general WTF reaction - it was like if Star Trek: The Next Generation had ended with Q telling Picard he had to become the StarChild from 2001: A Space Odyssey and that one of the ways for accomplishing this would accidentally kill Data and every other android or AI in existence. 

 

After reading other reactions to it and thinking about it myself, my main objection was, and still is, not so much about Shepard dying as about the limited and arbitrary nature of the choices. Presumably all of the galaxy's most brilliant surviving engineers, if they have a lick of sense in them, are helping the war effort somehow. EDI was able to hack the Collector Ship's internal controls in ME2. The geth, if they're alive, are extremely advanced AIs. And yet it's not possible to reprogram the Crucible to do anything other than the three options that the Catalyst spells out? Shepard doesn't even radio his/her allies to suggest *trying* such a thing? And meanwhile, the most important and influential soldier in existence, the one who, depending on your choices, may have talked the geth and quarians out of fighting a war, can't even muster a decent argument with the Catalyst over its (IMO) clearly flawed and simplistic assumptions?

 

More than anything, I felt like I did at the end of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where not only are Jensen's choices limited, but the game doesn't even acknowledge what seems like a fairly obvious alternative.

Spoiler

Presumably he has considerable evidence of what's actually going on, he has access to communications equipment, and he has an AI-journalist actively helping him - so why doesn't he just tell the truth about what happened and be done with it? Why do I have to choose between broadcasting somebody else's propaganda (Darrow's message may *contain* the truth, but it's also skewed to promote his agenda) or blowing up the station and murdering hundreds of people in the process?

 

Obviously, games with choices can't always account for every possible hypothetical, but when it comes to the end of the entire story, they shouldn't just leave obvious "But why don't they just...?" questions hanging out there.

[dreamgazer]

I assume that was Shepard's own mind. He has a pretty active imagination.

S/he also has a lot of experience with telepathic communication.
 

If I was Shepard I would be asking if there was a switch or something.

If Shepard doesn't believe the images already displayed for them, why would they believe the Catalyst about a switch?

[Vazgen]

Why wasn't it just an off switch?

I bet the off switch is down there, next to the Anderson, and Catalyst raises you there for a last act of vengeance if you decide to Destroy them.