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[Valmar]

 

and I'm pretty sure that not even Bioware understands the whole starchild, synthesis stuff and also where Shep is ( he can't be in London how the hell would that even be possible?)

 

 

 

They did come up with quite a bit of lore with the starbrat so I wouldn't say they don't understand it. They pretty much made an entire DLC for the sole purpose of explaining it, afterall.

 

Also ever consider that Shepard isn't on London and thats just rubble from the crucible/citadel/whatever? The whole "Shepard is on London" bit is only confusing if you actually assume its London rather than the citadel. We're never given any lore indication that its actually London, this assumption only derives from the fact that the textures they used looked similar to the London scenery. We're the ones who make it needlessly confusing by jumping to these conclusions.

[ImaginaryMatter]

They did come up with quite a bit of lore with the starbrat so I wouldn't say they don't understand it. They pretty much made an entire DLC for the sole purpose of explaining it, afterall.

 

The Extended Cut and Leviathan DLC are voodoo sharks though. They seem to only attempt to answer the big questions players ask without ever trying to make sure the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

[78stonewobble]

Speaking of the ending, in the Shep Lives scenario, is it canon that Shep is back in London?  Personally find it highly implauisble, to me it is more plausible that Shep was still on the Citadel.  Apologies for sounding dumb or going OT, but as I'm new here there's every chance I've missed something.

 

Sorry for cutting your post, but I only wanted to comment on this. 

 

Well some of us, still think Shep's death in ME2 involved an atmospheric reentry, now with his upgrades... he survived even worse again.

 

PS: "do you have any idea what a reentry entails?" ... Lil bit... I choose to believe that the n7 armor is just that good. Supported by how bad I am at the game and the amount of hits I take throughout a gameplay...

[Daemul]

its crazy that they still believe thats why people were pissed at the ending (shep dying)..

Eh, yeah, I think the four thousand page thread (created before the game even came out) which was full of people whining about not getting happy ending (before any of them had even played the game mind you), probably has something to do with that.

I can't blame them, I wouldn't take anything BSN tried to tell me about good/bad writing seriously either. It's the same forum that was praising the atrocious writing in ME2 and hating on people like Smudboy for pointing out the massive flaws in their beloved games plot, or lack of plot I should say.

I did get a good laugh at BSN suddenly being full of literature experts though. It was so surreal, because it was obvious that many of them had no idea what they were talking about and were just regurgitating the arguments of others in order to justify their position. The Indoctrination Theory was proof of that.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Indoctrination Theory was correct and Marauder Shields was trying to save you from the ending.

[Iakus]

Eh, yeah, I think the four thousand page thread (created before the game even came out) which was full of people whining about not getting happy ending (before any of them had even played the game mind you), probably has something to do with that.

I can't blame them, I wouldn't take anything BSN tried to tell me about good/bad writing seriously either. It's the same forum that was praising the atrocious writing in ME2 and hating on people like Smudboy for pointing out the massive flaws in their beloved games plot, or lack of plot I should say.

I did get a good laugh at BSN suddenly being full of literature experts though. It was so surreal, because it was obvious that many of them had no idea what they were talking about and were just regurgitating the arguments of others in order to justify their position. The Indoctrination Theory was proof of that.

As I said before, Shepard's survival was a part of the issue.  But it was a symptom of a greater problem.

 

Namely, the dissonance between the ending and pretty much everything that came before.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Indoctrination Theory was correct and Marauder Shields was trying to save you from the ending.

 

Goodnight sweet prince

 

By far my favorite ME3 ending meme.

[78stonewobble]

1. Eh, yeah, I think the four thousand page thread (created before the game even came out) which was full of people whining about not getting happy ending (before any of them had even played the game mind you), probably has something to do with that.

2. I can't blame them, I wouldn't take anything BSN tried to tell me about good/bad writing seriously either.

 

3. It's the same forum that was praising the atrocious writing in ME2 and hating on people like Smudboy for pointing out the massive flaws in their beloved games plot, or lack of plot I should say.

4. I did get a good laugh at BSN suddenly being full of literature experts though. It was so surreal, because it was obvious that many of them had no idea what they were talking about and were just regurgitating the arguments of others in order to justify their position. The Indoctrination Theory was proof of that.

 

1. Does seem silly indeed. 

 

2. Which is about as intelligent as stating that because an undefinable amount of US citizens actually do suffer from mental retardation, I will behave as though ALL US citizens suffer from mental retardation. Doubly nice, because generalisations like this is the basis for ie. racism (which around here, legally includes making a difference due to handicap, age, political conviction, religion, sexual preferences and what not) and sexism.

 

3. Did anyone reeeally say that the entirety of me2 was just perfect: "We wuff it all equally like our favorite food?" Or could it be that most people were willing to overlook those bad plot things and writing, due to ie. the quality of the rest of the game and perhaps timing of the said bad plot things? Ie. I'm perfectly willing to let slide the utter convenience of liara discovering a way to defeat the reapers mere hours after they invade. On the other hand... An ending does stick with you, because it's the most recent experience of the game and not getting overwritten by other stuff. Making it important. 

 

4. True, there was alot of "experts" all of a sudden, which was silly. However... Customer satisfaction is a thing. People can make whatever art, they want to, but if you also want to earn alot money on your art and making profits takes a precedence, then you have to cater to people's tastes. 

 

So do they wanna sell games to literary critics... all 10.000 of them globally (I highly doubt any of those would reaaally praise the me series) or ordinary people with ordinary simplistic tastes? 

 

 

 

In any case... Just because some or alot of people had, also imho, baseless critique, it doesn't mean there wasn't valid critique in there too... 

[TotalWurzel]

Sorry for cutting your post, but I only wanted to comment on this. 

 

Well some of us, still think Shep's death in ME2 involved an atmospheric reentry, now with his upgrades... he survived even worse again.

 

PS: "do you have any idea what a reentry entails?" ... Lil bit... I choose to believe that the n7 armor is just that good. Supported by how bad I am at the game and the amount of hits I take throughout a gameplay...

 

I'm avoiding any arguments about the effectiveness of fictional suits of armour or the mathematics of re-entry and impact trajectories, only becasue I haven't got the brains for the latter, and the former's probably been done to death elsewhere Having lived in London I would really prefer it if Shep was still on the Citadel, I mean, have you ever been to London?   So it looks like headcanon for the High EMS Destroy ending, so much for the EC

[Linkenski]

Sorry for cutting your post, but I only wanted to comment on this. 

 

Well some of us, still think Shep's death in ME2 involved an atmospheric reentry, now with his upgrades... he survived even worse again.

 

PS: "do you have any idea what a reentry entails?" ... Lil bit... I choose to believe that the n7 armor is just that good. Supported by how bad I am at the game and the amount of hits I take throughout a gameplay...

This is exactly why I hate all the morons who keep saying Shepard dying was stupid. I get how inconsequential it was to the plot, but I agree so much with this. It was an awesome way to re-enter the game, and as cheap as it was the time-skip 2 years ahead was still interesting enough.

[ImaginaryMatter]

This is exactly why I hate all the morons who keep saying Shepard dying was stupid. I get how inconsequential it was to the plot, but I agree so much with this. It was an awesome way to re-enter the game, and as cheap as it was the time-skip 2 years ahead was still interesting enough.

 

It was. Having the Normandy blow up was dramatic enough, you didn't need to kill Shepard (especially if you were going to bring him back in the very. next. scene). The time skip could have been done one-hundred other ways that would have been less silly; really, being recoverable in one piece was the least bothersome thing about it. The worst damage though, in game, was the characters' reactions to it. Like you think everyone would have been a bit more curious about Cerberus discovering the cure for death or skeptical about Shepard's back story, "I died two years ago but those terrorist mooks brought me back to life and now I'm working for them for poorly justified reasons." No wonder why the Virmire survivor was pissed. If my girlfriend disappeared for a few months and came back with a story half as ridiculous I would be pretty upset too.

 

In retrospective the real damage was that it prevented the story from continuing. Instead in sort of rebooted itself like Shepard's brain and circulatory system, all so we could be railroaded into fighting against bug clowns while working for mook clowns.

[Linkenski]

It was. Having the Normandy blow up was dramatic enough, you didn't need to kill Shepard (especially if you were going to bring him back in the very. next. scene). The time skip could have been done one-hundred other ways that would have been less silly; really, being recoverable in one piece was the least bothersome thing about it. The worst damage though, in game, was the characters' reactions to it. Like you think everyone would have been a bit more curious about Cerberus discovering the cure for death or skeptical about Shepard's back story, "I died two years ago but those terrorist mooks brought me back to life and now I'm working for them for poorly justified reasons." No wonder why the Virmire survivor was pissed. If my girlfriend disappeared for a few months and came back with a story half as ridiculous I would be pretty upset too.

 

In retrospective the real damage was that it prevented the story from continuing. Instead in sort of rebooted itself like Shepard's brain and circulatory system, all so we could be railroaded into fighting against bug clowns while working for mook clowns.

I always liked the overall idea of where ME2 went with the plot, my problem was the execution in a lot of areas, like for example ME3's plot would've been largely saved if we kept the collector base data no matter what but the choice would've been "smuggle to the alliance" or "trust Cerberus", and then the tech would've been instrumental to beating the Reapers in ME3.

 

I never stopped up once playing ME2 thinking "this direction suucks!". I thought it was a positive step forward, but then again, while ME1's plot is kinda good a lot of its cliches really dragged it down for me.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I always liked the overall idea of where ME2 went with the plot, my problem was the execution in a lot of areas, like for example ME3's plot would've been largely saved if we kept the collector base data no matter what but the choice would've been "smuggle to the alliance" or "trust Cerberus", and then the tech would've been instrumental to beating the Reapers in ME3.

 

I never stopped up once playing ME2 thinking "this direction suucks!". I thought it was a positive step forward, but then again, while ME1's plot is kinda good a lot of its cliches really dragged it down for me.

 

Even if it was better executed you still have the problem where galactic VIPs gets a part of their brains carved out so they could forget about that whole fight the Reaper thing -- again, for poorly justified, contrived reasoning. It changes the nature of the conflict from overcoming, to Shepard carrying the collective dead weight of the galaxy.

[78stonewobble]

It was. Having the Normandy blow up was dramatic enough, you didn't need to kill Shepard (especially if you were going to bring him back in the very. next. scene). The time skip could have been done one-hundred other ways that would have been less silly; really, being recoverable in one piece was the least bothersome thing about it. The worst damage though, in game, was the characters' reactions to it. Like you think everyone would have been a bit more curious about Cerberus discovering the cure for death or skeptical about Shepard's back story, "I died two years ago but those terrorist mooks brought me back to life and now I'm working for them for poorly justified reasons." No wonder why the Virmire survivor was pissed. If my girlfriend disappeared for a few months and came back with a story half as ridiculous I would be pretty upset too.

 

In retrospective the real damage was that it prevented the story from continuing. Instead in sort of rebooted itself like Shepard's brain and circulatory system, all so we could be railroaded into fighting against bug clowns while working for mook clowns.

 

Well, I liked it... I thought it was pure awesome. 

 

If the cure for death requires 2 years and... x billion credits and teams of the very best and is done in relative secret or anonymity, then I have no problem it wasn't heralded on all galactic news as the universal cure for death. 

 

But yeah the VS lines we're atrocious and me2 didn't know where it wanted to go, storywise, but me2 does other things very good imho, even if it's not perfect.