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"Players were grieving because their Shepard died (for a worthy cause)" - Patrick Weekes


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#101
dreamgazer

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The gun wobble disappears once Shepard goes up the beam. If you stand still you can easily hit the exact same spot on the tube no matter how far away from it you are. I'm not sure what mods the Carnifax uses but I assume they're some sort of accuracy version.


What can I say? Shepard made sure the tube was destroyed, which wasn't properly breaking apart until they moved closer.

#102
themikefest

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It takes many precise shots from extreme close range to pop the tube. I doubt it's made of the kind of flimsy material that'll just shatter with wobbly, ungrouped rounds fired at it.

Why would the shots be wobbly? Once the gun is fired the round hits whatever the gun is aiming at. If you mean Shepard been wobbly and not able to group together a good shot group, maybe. All Shepard has to do is fire one shot, take a breath and fire another till the tube goes boom. She doesn't have to rush herself



#103
Linkenski

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You can justify the dumbness of Shepard walking towards the tube as much as you want to, but it's pretty obviously intended to be the way it is becuase it looks "more cinematic" or "cool" or "badass" whatever you wanna call it.

 

Talking about whether it makes sense or not seems like a redundant thing to discuss.


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#104
Iakus

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You can justify the dumbness of Shepard walking towards the tube as much as you want to, but it's pretty obviously intended to be the way it is becuase it looks "more cinematic" or "cool" or "badass" whatever you wanna call it.

 

Talking about whether it makes sense or not seems like a redundant thing to discuss.

Well, if you're going to ask tell a player to burn their character, it better be for something that makes sense.  Even then making it mandatory is a hard sell.

 

"Cinematic" "cool" "badass" simply doesn't cut it.



#105
dreamgazer

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You can justify the dumbness of Shepard walking towards the tube as much as you want to, but it's pretty obviously intended to be the way it is becuase it looks "more cinematic" or "cool" or "badass" whatever you wanna call it.


Well, sure. "Rule of cool" has guided Shepard's (at times dense) reactions and experiences from the beginning, after all, starting with the beacon sacrifice in ME1.

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#106
dreamgazer

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Why would the shots be wobbly? Once the gun is fired the round hits whatever the gun is aiming at. If you mean Shepard been wobbly and not able to group together a good shot group, maybe. All Shepard has to do is fire one shot, take a breath and fire another till the tube goes boom. She doesn't have to rush herself


She doesn't? Time hasn't stopped in the decision chamber, and lives are being lost left and right in the battle around the Crucible.

#107
themikefest

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She doesn't? Time hasn't stopped in the decision chamber, and lives are being lost left and right in the battle around the Crucible.

If it takes an extra few seconds to line up her shots, I can live with that. Besides that, I've wasted a lot more time when walking to the tube while watching the battle in the background, and turning around and giving the imaginary middle finger to the Leviathan turd



#108
dreamgazer

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If it takes an extra few seconds to line up her shots, I can live with that. Besides that, I've wasted a lot more time when walking to the tube while watching the battle in the background, and turning around and giving the imaginary middle finger to the Leviathan turd


If you're badly wounded and dealing with durable material, I think it'd take longer than an extra few seconds from a distance to get a solid-enough grouping on the tube to get it to ignite. And Shepard's not even sure what's going to happen inside the chamber after it's done.

#109
themikefest

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If you're badly wounded and dealing with durable material, I think it'd take longer than an extra few seconds from a distance to get a solid-enough grouping on the tube to get it to ignite. And Shepard's not even sure what's going to happen inside the chamber after it's done.

You don't know that. People can overcome a lot depending on their will.

 

If time is such a big deal, then why waste time to have the what-the-crap evac scene, when Shepard could just run off to the beam without calling for the Normandy? Or why have all the goodbyes at the FOB? Look how much time is lost by doing that, though the player can skip them. I would have the goodbyes on the Normandy before reaching Earth and only be at the FOB long enough to discuss the plan of attack.



#110
dreamgazer

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You don't know that. People can overcome a lot depending on their will.


And even the most ardent and experienced of people can struggle with deep wounds, hazy vision, and getting sturdy construction materials to collapse with a firearm.
 

If time is such a big deal, then why waste time to have the what-the-crap evac scene, when Shepard could just run off to the beam without calling for the Normandy? Or why have all the goodbyes at the FOB? Look how much time is lost by doing that, though the player can skip them. I would have the goodbyes on the Normandy before reaching Earth and only be at the FOB long enough to discuss the plan of attack.


The big difference is that the end of the Reaper invasion is right there, within Shepard's crosshairs.

At the FOB and during the (frustrating) evac scene, Shepard has no idea of what's going to happen up there, or if anything's going to even operate properly. Taking (optional) moments to say goodbye when the unknown and potentially fatal awaits is different than wasting time when the solution is loaded and ready to fire. Every second, every minute burned in that moment becomes crucial.

#111
ImaginaryMatter

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 If Shepard doesn't believe the images already displayed for them, why would they believe the Catalyst about a switch?

 

Because the images are probably in his head or there for the player's convenience. If it was somehow a telepathic connection from the Catalyst it brings up all these questions why it didn't communicate anything else using this method.



#112
themikefest

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And even the most ardent and experienced of people can struggle with deep wounds, hazy vision, and getting sturdy construction materials to collapse with a firearm.
 

The big difference is that the end of the Reaper invasion is right there, within Shepard's crosshairs.

At the FOB and during the (frustrating) evac scene, Shepard has no idea of what's going to happen up there, or if anything's going to even operate properly. Taking (optional) moments to say goodbye when the unknown and potentially fatal awaits is different than wasting time when the solution is loaded and ready to fire. Every second, every minute burned in that moment becomes crucial.

Too bad femshep doesn't get a moment to say goodbye to Samantha, as a hologram, at the FOB even though it was done on the ship before heading to Earth. 

 

Stil, l  would have the goodbyes on the Normandy so all the focus can be on attacking the reapers and getting to the beam


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#113
dreamgazer

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Because the images are probably in his head or there for the player's convenience. If it was somehow a telepathic connection from the Catalyst it brings up all these questions why it didn't communicate anything else using this method.


In that case, wouldn't the flashes be of Shepard doing those actions instead of Anderson and TIM?

What else would it communicate? The history of the galaxy? Trust and manipulation are already being called into question.

The Catalyst kept things simple: Here's how X works; here's how Y works. Make your choice.

#114
dreamgazer

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Too bad femshep doesn't get a moment to say goodbye to Samantha, as a hologram, at the FOB even though it was done on the ship before heading to Earth.


More time with Sam would be welcome, of course, but I'd probably prefer her face-to-face goodbye on the Normandy to be their last conversation before the big game than whatever would come out of another holo-convo.
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#115
von uber

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The geography in Priority Earth makes no sense whatsoever, but I've been there before.

She could have jogged to the beam in about 6 minutes form where the shuttle landed. Or vanguard charged it.

 

Anyway.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, my biggest issue was confusion after the scene with Anderson. That is not the sign of a well written ending.

If the game had ended with the crucible firing after Anderson dies, ME3 would most likely be seen as an amazing ending to the series.

 

The forum would probably be quieter though.



#116
Farangbaa

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The forum would probably be quieter though.

 

This :D



#117
ImaginaryMatter

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In that case, wouldn't the flashes be of Shepard doing those actions instead of Anderson and TIM?

What else would it communicate? The history of the galaxy? Trust and manipulation are already being called into question.

The Catalyst kept things simple: Here's how X works; here's how Y works. Make your choice.

 

Not necessarily. If it was Shepard he could easily see them as Anderson's path or TIM's path, and if it's for the player's convenience the same thing applies. Plus the same thing could be asked of why the Catalyst used TIM and Anderson in the vision.

 

Out of everything the Catalyst is saying those actions are the least complicated, as they are simple instructions. Why would it use English the entire time when talking about complicated subjects, then suddenly use telepathy to convey, "Shoot the glass on the tube" or "Touch those two electrical spark things". I'm not trying to say the ending is bad because of this, it just looks like Shepard starts firing into a tube for no reason and the idea that the Catalyst uses it's gift of telepathy at a very specific and odd moment is funny; then again maybe it's there to convey how little synthetic understand organics.



#118
ImaginaryMatter

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The geography in Priority Earth makes no sense whatsoever, but I've been there before.

She could have jogged to the beam in about 6 minutes form where the shuttle landed. Or vanguard charged it.

 

Anyway.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, my biggest issue was confusion after the scene with Anderson. That is not the sign of a well written ending.

If the game had ended with the crucible firing after Anderson dies, ME3 would most likely be seen as an amazing ending to the series.

 

The forum would probably be quieter though.

 

We would still have Kai Leng and the Quarians to complain about.

 

I think the space ninja is much worse than the actual ending.


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#119
DeathScepter

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I cried for I punched myself in the face because ME3 was lacking the quality compared to the ME1 and ME2.



#120
dreamgazer

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Not necessarily. If it was Shepard he could easily see them as Anderson's path or TIM's path, and if it's for the player's convenience the same thing applies. Plus the same thing could be asked of why the Catalyst used TIM and Anderson in the vision.


Eh. Splitting hairs here. Either way, the paths are being communicated through visuals, and both the player and Shepard comprehend them.
 

Out of everything the Catalyst is saying those actions are the least complicated, as they are simple instructions. Why would it use English the entire time when talking about complicated subjects, then suddenly use telepathy to convey, "Shoot the glass on the tube" or "Touch those two electrical spark things". I'm not trying to say the ending is bad because of this, it just looks like Shepard starts firing into a tube for no reason and the idea that the Catalyst uses it's gift of telepathy at a very specific and odd moment is funny; then again maybe it's there to convey how little synthetic understand organics.


Shepard doesn't start firing into a tube "for no reason", though.

I don't see the moment as odd. There are reasons why instructional videos are popular for physical activities in lieu of text manuals: quicker communication, and ease of aping the processes through visuals.

#121
dreamgazer

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We would still have Kai Leng and the Quarians to complain about.
 
I think the space ninja is much worse than the actual ending.


Eh, Benezia still bothers me a bit more than Kai Leng.
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#122
Linkenski

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Well, if you're going to ask tell a player to burn their character, it better be for something that makes sense.  Even then making it mandatory is a hard sell.

 

"Cinematic" "cool" "badass" simply doesn't cut it.

I wasn't arguing that it was either. I'm just saying justifying something that doesn't make sense is unnecessary. There's no reason why he's walking towards the tube. He's just trying to look cool all for the sake of making a cool image. I'm not saying I liked it though.

 

I think it's one of those instances where, because it doesn't make sense I just kinda ignore it. It's like in the original endings before EC and the Mass Relays exploded, I quickly thought "They can't mean they're destroying the entire galaxy, right!?" so I assumed the explosions were different kinds of explosions, or just to signify "the mass relays are forever turned off" but not that they were killing off everyone within their solar system, like in Arrival DLC. Likewise I just tend to ignore the fact that Shepard is actively killing himself by walking towards the tube.

 

I get the idea. He shoots it and is shown walking towards it because he knows he's not gonna make it or something along those lines, but that's about it.



#123
SporkFu

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Eh, Benezia still bothers me a bit more than Kai Leng.

Benezia bothers me most because Marina Sirtis put more inflection in her voice during the character creation part of the game. I get that she was trying to sound menacing but come on.
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#124
Chashan

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Stopping the Reapers' cycle of extermination is far beyond "worthy". Suggesting otherwise is, quite frankly, silly.
 

Shepard didn't seem to take too kindly to death in the Destroy ending.

Even if they did all end in Shepard's death, those were the stakes and it's not within your power to alter the stakes, as it's always been in Mass Effect's ending parameters. Shepard's been living on borrowed time since Lazarus worked its resurrection magic anyway.

 

You would have a point if that were actually concretely brought up prior in the game during Shepard's health-check on the Normandy. Funnily enough, it's all fine, however: nothing whatever is mentioned that the implants have a very limited expiration date or similar - at most it is advised by the doc that Shepard be less "tense" if they are sporting Renegade scars.

 

 

I'm honestly not sure now if I went into ME3 expecting Shepard to die, but I don't have a problem with Shepard dying, and in fact I'd say it should be at least a possibility in any set of potential endings. The first time I finished the game, I wasn't so much angry or sad about the endings or about Shepard dying so much as I just had a general WTF reaction - it was like if Star Trek: The Next Generation had ended with Q telling Picard he had to become the StarChild from 2001: A Space Odyssey and that one of the ways for accomplishing this would accidentally kill Data and every other android or AI in existence. 

 

After reading other reactions to it and thinking about it myself, my main objection was, and still is, not so much about Shepard dying as about the limited and arbitrary nature of the choices. Presumably all of the galaxy's most brilliant surviving engineers, if they have a lick of sense in them, are helping the war effort somehow. EDI was able to hack the Collector Ship's internal controls in ME2. The geth, if they're alive, are extremely advanced AIs. And yet it's not possible to reprogram the Crucible to do anything other than the three options that the Catalyst spells out? Shepard doesn't even radio his/her allies to suggest *trying* such a thing? And meanwhile, the most important and influential soldier in existence, the one who, depending on your choices, may have talked the geth and quarians out of fighting a war, can't even muster a decent argument with the Catalyst over its (IMO) clearly flawed and simplistic assumptions?

 

More than anything, I felt like I did at the end of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where not only are Jensen's choices limited, but the game doesn't even acknowledge what seems like a fairly obvious alternative.

Spoiler

 

Obviously, games with choices can't always account for every possible hypothetical, but when it comes to the end of the entire story, they shouldn't just leave obvious "But why don't they just...?" questions hanging out there.

 

I mostly share this assessment. "Grief" did not enter my very first reaction to the entire thing, just a numb impression that, somehow, after BW went and dropped Godwin's Law on the Reapers earlier in the game - certain conversation with EDI, you'll know which one - I am expected to have Shepard cooperate with their "Führer"-figure. Yes, that's pretty much been my gut-reaction the very first time around two and a half years ago, and no, with retrospect and how little the EC turned out to address this discrepancy, I can't well take the scenario seriously any longer.

 

DEx: HR had the good sense to acknowledge the problems a certain major issue -

Spoiler
- which was present throughout the game had in that context (albeit somewhat heavy-handedly so in its epilogue-vid), so I am more forgivable of its "decision chamber". It's also interesting that I can come up with a more reasonable line of thought behind taking its version of a "refusal"-option than I can for entertaining pretty much anything BW put into the Catalyst-mouthpiece.

 

Ultimately, I know why I prefer my ME3-finale sàns Catalyst on PC.



#125
cap and gown

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Benezia bothers me most because Marina Sirtis put more inflection in her voice during the character creation part of the game. I get that she was trying to sound menacing but come on.

 

Yeah, but is it the acting, or the lines she was forced to deliver? I blame the writing.


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