164 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfsten]

Yes. It is her baiting that is responsible for the death threats... Lets blame women for the violence directed at them. BS

 

Anita Sarkeesian is a sleazy journalist who uses the cheapest tabloid techniques to shock and enrage her base audience who feeds on righteous umbrage-taking. She is best ignored. Don't argue with her. Definitely don't point sexist slurs at her or send her death threats (does this really bear saying?). If you want to have a debate about gender in video games (which we all should, because it is a real issue), then there are far more informed and engaged people to have it with.  

 

I think you're probably best ignored too, RedIntifada. Your straining to read misogyny into any comment opposing yours is palpable, and pretty gross. 

 

As far as this topic is relevant to Bioware and Dragon Age, Sarkeesian was either clownishly sloppy or deeply unethical when she included that clip of Dragon Age in her video. The Colbert Report needs to feed its audience, which has in turn been definitively turned against gamergate by the mainstream media. So they did what they did. I am 100% sure no one involved has played the relevant section of DA:O. And if some intern did, they kept mum about it.

[Dio Demon]

tbf, the CE origin was as much about racism as it was about sexism.  Maybe even more-so, imo.  Would you see Vaughan attempting to kidnap and rape a group of human women?  Nope.

I'm going to offer my two cents on this issue. It doesn't have to be about sexism to be sexist there are times where games can come off sexist without meaning to. The City Elf origin is the biggest example of it, mainly because both genders fall to sexist tropes. We have the defenseless innocent women carted off to be raped and we have the evil mustache-twirling males who are going to do the raping. This can imply two things, women cannot defend themselves and they must be victims and that men are evil and must be powerful.

 

Then we have Shianni bottling Vaughn which counteracts that trope that women are not defenseless but both her and the female warden are both knocked out so it kinda cancels itself out. Then when the female warden wakes up and is about the be raped Soris appears and throws her a weapon. This I believe was their greatest mistake, the female warden should've swiped the guard's weapon and killed him with it after the fighting is done. Soris appears with a second weapon in tow. This would get rid of the male comes to the rescue trope.

 

But then you can go on a murderous rampage and KILL everyone... I mean everyone, their cat, their dog and their goldfish, also to make matters even more interesting you find the female warden's soon to be husband dead... usually it's the soon to be husband that saves the day this is a clear subversion of that trope.

 

As for the Vaughn bit it could've came off as hope for rape victims they should've focused more on Shianni after the rape showing that while it was a horrible experience she wasn't going to let it destroy her life and that she'd continue fighting against the human oppressors. But sadly it was more of a throwaway story for the main character to jump off.

 

BioWare has always had a hit and a miss in terms of these tropes but if you look at certain threads it shows that they are willing to listen.

[Ianamus]

I didn't think it was a very good example when I watched that episode because none of the female characters are ever actually shown being assaulted and it's not particuarly sexual in general. If the warden is female she just sort of kills them and moves on.

 

That doesn't mean i didn't agree with many other parts of the video though.

 

People seem to have forgotten that it's possible to agree with some of a persons points and disagree with others.

[Burricho]

It is sexism if you think a certain situation (eg rape) could only happen to one gender.

It's can happen to either gender, but what's to say that guy just... wasn't interested in men? Is that too much of a stretch?

[Dio Demon]

   I think the fact she wasn't arrested for making false police reports and hoax threats (in regard to the Utah State talk she had to cancel) pretty much shows that no, she wasn't making it all up. Plus read through the comments section of any youtube video about her - they're generally filled with pretty vile abuse directed at her.

Twitter in itself is a pretty disgusting place and Youtube is even worse.

[JerZey CJ]

   I think the fact she wasn't arrested for making false police reports and hoax threats (in regard to the Utah State talk she had to cancel) pretty much shows that no, she wasn't making it all up. Plus read through the comments section of any youtube video about her - they're generally filled with pretty vile abuse directed at her.

 

   Having watched her entire series on gaming tropes I really don't think she does misinform gamers. Do I agree with her on everything? No. Does that make her a liar? No, just someone with a different opinion. And I really don't think she 'projects women as helpless victims' at all.

   And with that I'm out - even if there is no incoming lock incoming kind of feel this is going nowhere as a discussion. So leaving while its still civil

She is a public figure who many view as someone who misrepresents and lies to try and prove her points, also, youtube comments. Anybody like that would receive hate. Hell, anybody gets hate in Youtube comments. Have you seen some of the stuff that gets spewed at certain RoosterTeeth members?

[Star fury]

The review she supposedly slept for doesn't exist, can we please move on from this.

Sleeping with a journalist and getting a positive article about your game. Nothing to see here, move on.

[twizbuck]

Apparently not, since you posted.

Never said I didn't feel strongly about it, but if I really gave a **** every time something new comes up against gamers thanks to a percentage of a percentage of gamers, I'd be stressed out over something that's rather pointless in the end since nothing will come of it. Again. As usual.

 

So, yes, I moved on. Just think everyone else should too. Hence the original purpose of the post.

[Eveangaline]

Posts about Origins don't belong on the Inquisition board.

 

Troll posts don't belong on this forum at all.

 

in b4 bioware mod locks it.

[9TailsFox]

It is sexism if you think a certain situation (eg rape) could only happen to one gender.

Gus what time it is. it's rape time. Who play the game will get. So what Alfa protocol is sexist because our character was tie down to table and raped?

[Yinello]

People are calmly pointing out flaws in her videos including bias, cherry picking evidence and lies. Can you defend why somebody would lie pursuing a noble cause? She now even attacks Bioware which is a beacon of political correctness.

 

Calmly hah.

 

Because you claim she's lying when she's just giving her opinion. That's why I defend her - because people are completely intent on making her look like the worst person ever when she's not. I don't care if you disagree. I do care when people think they're justified in harassing her constantly.

 

Here's the difference: You just gave your opinion which I disagree on and I do not feel the need to PM you saying you're a liar and a horrible person.  I definitely don't think you're a liar and a horrible person. I accept that it's just your opinion. Yet you can't seem to accept that what she says is also just her opinion.

 

Like everyone on the internet, she has no power unless you pay attention to her. So if she truly says things you think are terrible, just pretend she doesn't exist. Gods know that's the advice I always get when I see horrible things online.

Modifié par Yinello, 30 octobre 2014 - 10:45 .

[steamcamel]

k ...

[Rockpopple]

It's can happen to either gender, but what's to say that guy just... wasn't interested in men? Is that too much of a stretch?

 

Just wanna pop in to say rape isn't about sexual attraction to any gender. It's about power and force and the application of power by force.

 

If rape was just about sexual attraction, 90% of the dudes who are raped in prison would not have been raped because they are dudes.

 

And with that, goodnight all.

[DuckTheSecond]

I don't like people who always see things in the extreme and who see enemies everywhere.

 

I say just ignore her (but of course don't be oblivious to real cases of sexism) and she'll just fade away.

[JWvonGoethe]

It is sexism if you think a certain situation (eg rape) could only happen to one gender.

 

Is it not implied that Fenris was raped when he was a slave? But I agree that the female city elf origin was problematic in its portrayal of rape.

[Yinello]

It's can happen to either gender, but what's to say that guy just... wasn't interested in men? Is that too much of a stretch?

 

Of course it's always situational but in this specific case, it is common that the guy ends up saving the damsel and that the damsel is in distress. I think that's what Anita might mean when she says that could be problematic - it's not so much that particular moment in game, it's that it's used a lot.

[Yinello]

Is it not implied that Fenris was raped when he was a slave? But I agree that the female city elf origin was problematic in its portrayal of rape.

 

I was just mostly explaining how that situation could be considered sexist. I don't know if Fenris was raped but men definitely do get raped and I feel it's often swept under the rug. But that's a convo for another time.

[Star fury]

Compare Malala Yousafzai, a real feminist who does a really important job and someone who makes YouTube videos full of bias, cherry picked evidence and lies while getting $30 000.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

One cannot expect radical feminists and marxist feminist to make much sense or to be rational or to think. It is in their nature to lie, to take things out of context, to misrepresent, to paint everything in terms of their ideology and to hate men and women who do not conform to their viewpoints.

 

If you want to listen to a rational and logical feminist, check out Christina Hoff Summers. She is one of the few sane and rational feminist out there. 

 

Here are some of her works. Compare them with this woman who appeared on the Colbert Report and Sarkeesian. 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

At the end of the day, one treats the irrational and the foolish with indifference and the rational and logical with respect. 

[BloodyTalon]

Not on topic for this thread, but when did cherry picking things, and mistrupting things become so common place to prove a point and get people behind you.

Everyone from politicians, news and youtubers do it now a days. I have a very black and white view of the world, is probbly why I don't fit it into to well, lying is lying bottom line you can't just do half of the facts.

Does she ever try to paint a full picture of things or just cherry picks facts here and there, kinda curious about this topic now and wa nt to see if a certian problem with society runs deeper then I first thought, well a few problems.

Edit: Most likely should head to bed soon, was a topic that caught my eye and needed to do something to tire my mind out slightly.

[TEWR]

Anita Sarkeesian's videos, from what ones I've seen, have never bothered me. I don't always agree with her points, but when I do... I drink Dos Equis.

 

Sorry, it's late and I need to head to bed. But the level of vitriol she receives is unconscionable. Normally what she does is point out a pattern that is (potentially) the problem, not necessarily a game (or company itself).

 

Again, I personally don't always agree with her views, but I find them interesting to examine and reflect on. I simply say, if I reblog her videos and don't agree, "I don't agree with everything, but I still appreciate the video and its insights." or something of the like nature. And I leave it at that.

 

She has her thoughts, I have mine, but ultimately I think she and I (two strangers) have the same interests at heart.

[Ianamus]

I'm going to offer my two cents on this issue. It doesn't have to be about sexism to be sexist there are times where games can come off sexist without meaning to. The City Elf origin is the biggest example of it, mainly because both genders fall to sexist tropes. We have the defenseless innocent women carted off to be raped and we have the evil mustache-twirling males who are going to do the raping. This can imply two things, women cannot defend themselves and they must be victims and that men are evil and must be powerful.

 

Then we have Shianni bottling Vaughn which counteracts that trope that women are not defenseless but both her and the female warden are both knocked out so it kinda cancels itself out. Then when the female warden wakes up and is about the be raped Soris appears and throws her a weapon. This I believe was their greatest mistake, the female warden should've swiped the guard's weapon and killed him with it after the fighting is done. Soris appears with a second weapon in tow. This would get rid of the male comes to the rescue trope.

 

But then you can go on a murderous rampage and KILL everyone... I mean everyone, their cat, their dog and their goldfish, also to make matters even more interesting you find the female warden's soon to be husband dead... usually it's the soon to be husband that saves the day this is a clear subversion of that trope.

 

As for the Vaughn bit it could've came off as hope for rape victims they should've focused more on Shianni after the rape showing that while it was a horrible experience she wasn't going to let it destroy her life and that she'd continue fighting against the human oppressors. But sadly it was more of a throwaway story for the main character to jump off.

 

BioWare has always had a hit and a miss in terms of these tropes but if you look at certain threads it shows that they are willing to listen.

 

It's all well and good to say "females aren't capable of defending themselves is an offensive trope", but let's be honest, in reality women who are attacked are often not as strong as their male assailiants and are easily overpowered, or else rape and domestic abuse aimed at women wouldn't be so common. And the vast majority of rapists are male, as sad a truth as that is. Things like the city elf origin were so common in real life in the past that I can't really bring myself to take any major issue with it.

 

That's not to say that I didn't have issues with the origin, though. The female warden was shown to be a capable fighter, so she should have been able to put up more of a fight, and there wasn't as much dialogue pertaining to the arranged marriage and the wardens reaction to it as I would have liked.

 

On the one hand I can understand the argument that rape should not be used as a throwaway story to make a faction/character seem more evil or make the audience feel sympathy for a character, but something has to be used, and is it really any worse than using murder, suicide or any other tragic event as a characters backstory or origin?

[Bfler]

The thread doesn't deserve a discussion. OP is obviosusly a troll and a coward, because he doesn't have the balls to post with his real account.

[Eveangaline]

The thread doesn't deserve a discussion. OP is obviosusly a troll and a coward, because he doesn't have the balls to post with his real account.

 

It is a great way to find people to put on ignore though! And mods will freeze this once they wake up.