Aller au contenu

Photo

When Shepard levels up, Shepard isn't growing stronger. Unless you're a biotic...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
19 réponses à ce sujet

#1
andy6915

andy6915
  • Members
  • 6 590 messages

Shepard is instead getting smarter, or at least more knowledgeable. Incinerate doesn't get stronger when Shepard does, incinerate gets stronger when Shepard tinkers on his/her omni-tool. Basically, when you level up, you're kinda getting an abridged version of Shepard going to a workbench and tinkering for an hour or 2 to further maximize the omni-tools offensive capabilities. Same for other tech powers, leveling up is in fact Shepard getting more knowledgeable about omni-tools and figuring out how to get more power out of it.

 

Same is true for ammo powers too, seeing as the omni-tool is what sets them. A soldier Shepard leveling ammo powers is soldier Shepard getting better at getting their omni-tool to make ammo powers more powerful and efficient.

 

And when your weapon damage increases, it's not Shepard learning to shoot better. Shooting is dependent on your own skill as a player, skill isn't going to make a shot harder hitting. A head shot is a head shot after all. What you're really leveling is Shepard's knowledge about guns, which affects how well the gun functions. The more you know about guns, the better care you take with them with maintenance and the better your are at maximizing their output. Leveling increasing weapon damage is basically showing that Shepard getting more proficient at gun care when it comes to his/her own guns which affects how strong the gun is.

 

Leveling shields is just Shepard getting better at maximizing shield strength with better knowledge about how to fit more shield emitters in the armor and how to make them more efficient use of their internal power supply. This is also how you can make shields have a shorter delay before recharge, you've learned enough about the emitters to improve how long it takes them to refill.

 

So in short, other than things like health increases and any biotic powers both of which actually are about getting stronger, Shepard is actually leveling up their mind and knowledge.



#2
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages

Yeah. Or it's just gameplay mechanics not necessarily meant to be delved into so deeply. You know, either or. The fact that the gameplay is rather inconsistent in the trilogy doesn't help matters. In the first game its kinda sad to see a N7 Spectre who can't hold a sniper rifler without it wobbling all over the place.

 

I'm not sure biotic power increases necessarily tie in with physical strength, though. Granted that using biotics puts stress on your body but if it was purely a matter of strength then I doubt Asari would be as effective as they are. Unless hey have nothing but pure solid steel muscle under that blue skin. In fact since biotics burn  more calories they're probably more prone to be on the skinny side.

 

Honestly biotics could be argued to have more to do with 'brain power' than anything else though on a subconscious level. The training to better use biotics is, imo, as much about the mental state of the user than it is the physical, if not more so. It may be more akin to simple muscle memory like learning how to type. The strength of the actual mass effect seems to come primarily from the implant and amp used. For example Asari do not need implants to use biotics yet they use biotic amplifiers to increase their power.


  • RedCaesar97 aime ceci

#3
Vazgen

Vazgen
  • Members
  • 4 967 messages

There is Fitness skill that increases your health. You class skill increases carry weight



#4
andy6915

andy6915
  • Members
  • 6 590 messages

There is Fitness skill that increases your health. You class skill increases carry weight

 

Okay, I said as much myself. The shield part of fitness isn't, but melee damage and health and weight are based on training and strength.

 

Yeah. Or it's just gameplay mechanics not necessarily meant to be delved into so deeply. You know, either or. The fact that the gameplay is rather inconsistent in the trilogy doesn't help matters. In the first game its kinda sad to see a N7 Spectre who can't hold a sniper rifler without it wobbling all over the place.

 

I'm not sure biotic power increases necessarily tie in with physical strength, though. Granted that using biotics puts stress on your body but if it was purely a matter of strength then I doubt Asari would be as effective as they are. Unless hey have nothing but pure solid steel muscle under that blue skin. In fact since biotics burn  more calories they're probably more prone to be on the skinny side.

 

Honestly biotics could be argued to have more to do with 'brain power' than anything else though on a subconscious level. The training to better use biotics is, imo, as much about the mental state of the user than it is the physical, if not more so. It may be more akin to simple muscle memory like learning how to type. The strength of the actual mass effect seems to come primarily from the implant and amp used. For example Asari do not need implants to use biotics yet they use biotic amplifiers to increase their power.

 

Is there something wrong with thinking this way? You act like "it's just gameplay" should mean it isn't even worth thinking about. And I didn't mean biotics is based on strength, I meant it's based on training and skill and not knowledge of anything mechanical. Biotics train by further fine tuning their control of their nervous system, so the increased power upon level up actually was because of Shepard's training and not knowledge building. Like most of what fitness raises, biotics are separate from equipment knowledge.



#5
Vazgen

Vazgen
  • Members
  • 4 967 messages

Okay, I said as much myself. The shield part of fitness isn't, but melee damage and health and weight are based on training and strength.

Leveling Fitness increases your health and according to the skill description "Put on some muscle and become fearless in close-quarters combat" it gives you more muscles. You can avoid leveling it and focus on developing your mind (like I do on my current character). Shepard does have a minimal training and muscle structure from years of service in the Alliance military and N7 special forces division. 



#6
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages
Is there something wrong with thinking this way? You act like "it's just gameplay" should mean it isn't even worth thinking about. And I didn't mean biotics is based on strength, I meant it's based on training and skill and not knowledge of anything mechanical. Biotics train by further fine tuning their control of their nervous system, so the increased power upon level up actually was because of Shepard's training and not knowledge building. Like most of what fitness raises, biotics are separate from equipment knowledge.

 

I don't necessarily mean that gameplay isn't worth thinking about its just... there is distinction in Mass Effect, a line between what is true in narrative lore and what happens in gameplay. There is in just about every game, really. Why is it that a single headshot from ANY gun doesn't kill an unarmored, unshielded enemy? Because its a crappy weak gun you get in the start of the game. This is ESPECIALLY true in Mass Effect (the first one) since the starting weapons all rather suck. Infact that game doesn't even have a headshot system so it doesn't matter where you hit them. Does that mean headshots don't do more damage during the time before the geth invasion is it just a gameplay thing that isn't meant to so heavily picked apart for meaning? I don't know. I side with it just being gameplay.

 

Shepard, a non biotic, can learn biotic skills as bonus powers. Does this mean that he's secretly a biotic with a biotic implant in his brain and amp in his neck? No, it just means its a gameplay mechanic. Shepard's skills, points, armor and weapons carry over in new game+. Reasons? Gameplay mechanic. There are powers and talents that you only get if you have a certain team mates loyalty. From a narrative perspective you could say well maybe this is because they taught it to him after becoming close friends. These powers also carry over in New Game+ though so that argument doesn't hold water. It's just a gameplay mechanic.

 

In the first game Shepard, a trained N7 (best of the best) and SPECTRE cannot shoot accurately to save his life - not until leveling up skills tied to that certain weapon. It's as if Shepard starts the game as a novice or rookie even though he is an N7 and Spectre. Why? Because its a gameplay mechanic, its a level up system, many games have them. Shepard can use Dominate on reaper troops. Is it because he's secretly Leviathan? No, it's just a gameplay power.

 

You can carry hundreds of weapons and armors on your back in the first game. You can turn practically anything into omnigel and use that gel to fix or crack or hack anything. You can revive geth with medi-gel. A krogan can be killed instantly by a sword in the gut. Your squadmates can be all be brought back from death after having a banshee impale her entire hand through their torsos.

 

In the first game tech powers were fired as small discs like grenades yet in the other games its either instant or a dramatic effect of flying ice or fire. Shield Drain magically vampire leeches the shields from your enemies and gives it to you. Reave magically leeches health from enemies. The collectors are awakened and fighting the reapers. You can make out where cloaked enemies are yet when you cloak you're instantly forgotten about by the enemy. You fight plenty of biotics but none of them seem interested in suspending you in the air and riddling you with bullets. Jack can biotically punch and destroy two giant mechs and blow a hole in the hull of a ship but is considerably nerf in gameplay.

 

Hell biotics themselves seem to be pretty far off the bat when it comes to being true to the narrative as a far as gameplay is concerned. Biotics in the narrative are told to be a tiring effort yet I can run around throwing them around constantly, not even using a gun and never get tired. If they were as tiring as some of the novels suggest Shepard should had passed out by now. No amount of being tough and strong is going to save you there, imo. Though it has been years since I read the novel so I could be remembering it wrong. Also in the first game biotics, if I recall correctly, worked on even shielded enemies but now you have to take down the shields first.

 

But I digress. I wasn't saying you're wrong or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that sometimes it is possible to over-analyze things. When it comes to gameplay, especially in a RPG with stats and levels and multiple tier weapons and difficulty settings... you have to be a bit more lax, imo. Personally I feel there are too many instances in Mass Effect where the gameplay isn't persistent with the narrative for me to really put much stock value in it as far as having the gameplay reflect lore. I don't judge it for it though, since I honestly don't expect it to follow lore to the letter. Afterall, it is just gameplay. I don't feel you're meant to over-think these things because if you do you end up with all the issues I described above. Though that's just me.


  • RedCaesar97 et Reorte aiment ceci

#7
Excella Gionne

Excella Gionne
  • Members
  • 10 444 messages

No Fitness = Fat Shepard

 

:P


  • SporkFu, RedCaesar97, MegaIllusiveMan et 2 autres aiment ceci

#8
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages

No Fitness = Fat Shepard

 

:P

 

Nonsense, just soft around the edges.



#9
SporkFu

SporkFu
  • Members
  • 6 921 messages

No Fitness = Fat Shepard

 

:P

Running to escape the collapsing mine on Therum = game over.

Leaping from the derelict reaper = game over.

Suicide mission = fuggedaboutit

Champion of the Volus = damn right. 


  • MegaIllusiveMan, Reorte, KrrKs et 1 autre aiment ceci

#10
Excella Gionne

Excella Gionne
  • Members
  • 10 444 messages

Running to escape the collapsing mine on Therum = game over.

Leaping from the derelict reaper = game over.

Suicide mission = fuggedaboutit

Champion of the Volus = damn right. 

The Beam will be quite the exercise...


  • SporkFu aime ceci

#11
SporkFu

SporkFu
  • Members
  • 6 921 messages

The Beam will be quite the exercise...

shep: *gasp* You... *pant*... you guys go on ahead. I'll... *wheeze* ...I'll catch up.... *tries to flag down a Mako*

Harby: *stifling laughter* Oh I can't do this anymore. I'll see you guys later. *leaves* 


  • MegaIllusiveMan, Reorte, teh DRUMPf!! et 2 autres aiment ceci

#12
ImaginaryMatter

ImaginaryMatter
  • Members
  • 4 163 messages


shep: *gasp* You... *pant*... you guys go on ahead. I'll... *wheeze* ...I'll catch up.... *tries to flag down a Mako*

Harby: *stifling laughter* Oh I can't do this anymore. I'll see you guys later. *leaves* 

 

Shepard is invincible to Harbinger's beam (maybe that's why it shot the ground it front of him?). Shepard has all day to roll his butt down to the beam.


  • SporkFu et KrrKs aiment ceci

#13
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages

 

Shepard is invincible to Harbinger's beam (maybe that's why it shot the ground it front of him?). Shepard has all day to roll his butt down to the beam.

 

Thanks buddy. Just what I needed. More reasons to facepalm at the ending. It was funny yet also sad... The complexity of these petty human emotions. Blah.



#14
Arcian

Arcian
  • Members
  • 2 466 messages

Shepard is instead getting smarter, or at least more knowledgeable. Incinerate doesn't get stronger when Shepard does, incinerate gets stronger when Shepard tinkers on his/her omni-tool. Basically, when you level up, you're kinda getting an abridged version of Shepard going to a workbench and tinkering for an hour or 2 to further maximize the omni-tools offensive capabilities. Same for other tech powers, leveling up is in fact Shepard getting more knowledgeable about omni-tools and figuring out how to get more power out of it.

 

Same is true for ammo powers too, seeing as the omni-tool is what sets them. A soldier Shepard leveling ammo powers is soldier Shepard getting better at getting their omni-tool to make ammo powers more powerful and efficient.

 

And when your weapon damage increases, it's not Shepard learning to shoot better. Shooting is dependent on your own skill as a player, skill isn't going to make a shot harder hitting. A head shot is a head shot after all. What you're really leveling is Shepard's knowledge about guns, which affects how well the gun functions. The more you know about guns, the better care you take with them with maintenance and the better your are at maximizing their output. Leveling increasing weapon damage is basically showing that Shepard getting more proficient at gun care when it comes to his/her own guns which affects how strong the gun is.

 

Leveling shields is just Shepard getting better at maximizing shield strength with better knowledge about how to fit more shield emitters in the armor and how to make them more efficient use of their internal power supply. This is also how you can make shields have a shorter delay before recharge, you've learned enough about the emitters to improve how long it takes them to refill.

 

So in short, other than things like health increases and any biotic powers both of which actually are about getting stronger, Shepard is actually leveling up their mind and knowledge.

And your point is...?



#15
Larry-3

Larry-3
  • Members
  • 1 284 messages

This thread reminded me of this song.

 



#16
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 850 messages

Shepard gets smarter? This ain't about strategy or tactics, people.



#17
ImaginaryMatter

ImaginaryMatter
  • Members
  • 4 163 messages

Shepard gets smarter? This ain't about strategy or tactics, people.

 

We level up or we die!


  • RedCaesar97 aime ceci

#18
SwobyJ

SwobyJ
  • Members
  • 7 373 messages

Its better imo to just say 'skillful'.

 

Not necessarily stronger, not necessarily smarter. Just more able to use the existing skills (except when an entirely new one opens up).

 

However, I would say that from game to game, Shepard is becoming both stronger and smarter. Though many would argue that the 'smarter' aspect is growing at a snail's pace, heh.



#19
Valmar

Valmar
  • Members
  • 1 952 messages

Listens to some NPC's chatter. Gains EXP. Levels up. Eavesdropping = power. Flex!  



#20
themikefest

themikefest
  • Members
  • 21 616 messages

Nonsense, just soft around the edges.

Too bad femshep couldm't say the same to Anderson