The bit about ragna i think you need a high persuasion, and about keran I remember he says that he won´t WORK for the templars while meredith is in charge (if you hand him over), not that he deserted per se.
How do you get to the persuade dialogue option? I've been trying to figure it out. If there is an option to persuade her I haven't found it, so maybe it is bugged.
You've just said that they are possible and quoted the wiki page. You haven't said exactly how. That isn't evidence.
Dagna requires a persuade check... If you don't have it, you can't get the option to convince her to go back to her father. And I said that I believe the option to send Keran back to the Knight Commander is only available if received the quest from Meredith.
That said, you've only said you can't find it possible, and have claimed to do what the Wiki says... That also isn't evidence.
As I said, we're at an impasse.
Edit: If you really want, I can play through DAO again to get to that point and explain every step along the way... But keep in mind that it'll take a week for me to do so...
Yes it does. Go read the description in the Keep again. It says "Kerran rejoined the templars under Knight-Captain Cullen's discretion and a promise to keep a very close eye on the recruit."
That does not happen.
Moreover, his dialogue is identical. There is no mention of him ever being in Templar custody by Cullen or Meredith or Kerran. There is no animation of templars taking him away. He even says he's going straight to Lowtown if you tell him that you will let the templars decide his fate and he always shows up there. There is no reason to think he was ever given to the templars.
Ah... so the issue then is that they're using what happened in Act 1 as the description for the Act 3 choice. That's a bug. Submit a bug report. The option to send Keran to the Templars during Best Served Cold still exists, however.
Сообщение изменено: AshenEndymion, 31 Октябрь 2014 - 02:00 .
The wiki doesn't say how to do it all it says is to talk to Dagna's farther before she leaves and then talk to her.
Most quests that have identical outcomes don't have multiple choices. In Act of Mercy, there aren't separate choices for having Varric convince Kerras to leave and Hawke convincing Kerras to leave.
Hawke can say that he will let the templars decide Kerran's fate but he doesn't actually turn him over to them. Kerran just leaves. If Meredith executes everyone who was part of the conspiracy and Kerran is still alive, then the logical conclusion is that he was never in her custody.
Hawke can say that he will let the templars decide Kerran's fate but he doesn't actually turn him over to them. Kerran just leaves. If Meredith executes everyone who was part of the conspiracy and Kerran is still alive, then the logical conclusion is that he was never in her custody.
Meredith executes everyone who was part of the conspiracy that was at the wounded coast(if you chose that option with Cullen). Keran wasn't at the Wounded Coast. The logical conclusion is that she treated him differently because he was not a ring-leader(like everyone at the Wounded Coast).
Remember some options may have simply not appeared because of other choices you'd made elsewhere.
I have to say, one of the things I've found fascinating about the Tapestry is learning of things that I'd never even known were possible in-game. Sleeping with Gheyna instead of helping her to get together with Cammen? Would never have crossed my mind! Bethany becoming a Warden? I certainly don't remember ever being given that option!
The Tapestry is really revealing just how much more complex these games are than most of us probably realised ... or maybe it's just me!
The case of Bethany (or Carver) implies a couple of conditions: you have to take them to the Deep Roads expedition AND Anders has to be there. If you take them to the Deep Roads and Anders is not there, they will just get infected and die instead of being turnued into grey wardens.
Meredith executes everyone who was part of the conspiracy that was at the wounded coast(if you chose that option with Cullen). Keran wasn't at the Wounded Coast. The logical conclusion is that she treated him differently because he was not a ring-leader(like everyone at the Wounded Coast).
The people at the wounded coast weren't just the ringleaders, it was a base for them all. And she executes them because she wants to ensure no-one else will do the same. Kerran would not be exempt. She can even execute Samson, who turned on them to help the templars if Hawke suggests it to Cullen. Kerran would have been there at one point.
If all in game content for "Kerran being let go" is the same as the supposed "turn him over to the templars" option, then there is no reason to think he was actually in their custody. There is no mention of it from anyone, not even a single throwaway line in ambient dialogue. Nothing in the game indicates that he was ever at Meredith's mercy.
If all in game content for "Kerran being let go" is the same as the supposed "turn him over to the templars" option, then there is no reason to think he was actually in their custody. There is no mention of it from anyone, not even a single throwaway line in ambient dialogue. Nothing in the game indicates that he was ever at Meredith's mercy.
All the in-game content says a Warden who did the Ultimate Sacrifice is alive in Awakening, Witch Hunt, and 2... Just because there is, or isn't, a throwaway line explaining the mistake doesn't mean it may or may not be a mistake...
I mean, I'll be annoyed if it turns out that Wynne's death is required if you agree with Cullen to kill Irving(as it's set up now in the Keep), and that said choice(Cullen's Request) requires Irving's death, even though both are allowed in the game... But if it turns out not to be a bug in the Keep, and it's all working as intended, it must be attributed it to a bug in the game itself(specifically Wynne not being a locked party member after the Fade, and allowing the Littany to be able to be brought into battle with you against Uldred after publicly accepting Cullen's request), and not something that was intended to actually happen in the game.
Edit: The lesson is that you should file a bug report if you truly think it's wrong in the Keep. And if it isn't ever changed in the Keep, just accept that what you think is wrong... And that there was a bug in the game giving you the result you saw.
Сообщение изменено: AshenEndymion, 31 Октябрь 2014 - 03:24 .
All the in-game content says a Warden who did the Ultimate Sacrifice is alive in Awakening, Witch Hunt, and 2... Just because there is, or isn't, a throwaway line explaining the mistake doesn't mean it may or may not be a mistake...
I mean, I'll be annoyed if it turns out that Wynne's death is required if you agree with Cullen to kill Irving(as it's set up now in the Keep), and that said choice(Cullen's Request) requires Irving's death, even though both are allowed in the game... But if it turns out not to be a bug in the Keep, and it's all working as intended, it must be attributed it to a bug in the game itself(specifically Wynne not being a locked party member after the Fade, and allowing the Littany to be able to be brought into battle with you against Uldred after publicly accepting Cullen's request), and not something that was intended to actually happen in the game.
You saw the Warden die in Origins. Did you see Kerran being taken away by the templars? What was there that indicated that he was sent back to the templars at all?
Besides that not even a good example, because we know that specific example is because of a design oversight on Bioware's part and isn't supposed to be canon.
Remember some options may have simply not appeared because of other choices you'd made elsewhere.
I have to say, one of the things I've found fascinating about the Tapestry is learning of things that I'd never even known were possible in-game. Sleeping with Gheyna instead of helping her to get together with Cammen? Would never have crossed my mind! Bethany becoming a Warden? I certainly don't remember ever being given that option!
The Tapestry is really revealing just how much more complex these games are than most of us probably realised ... or maybe it's just me!
The female warden can sleep with Cammen and basically rub it in Gheyna's face or keep quiet. And it's easy to miss the option of making Bethany a Warden because you need to have Anders in your party in the Deep Roads since he knows where to find the Grey Wardens in time. (I didn't think to bring Anders either. I thought Nathaniel was going to magically come to the rescue, but his cameo was much later.)
The female warden can sleep with Cammen and basically rub it in Gheyna's face or keep quiet. And it's easy to miss the option of making Bethany a Warden because you need to have Anders in your party in the Deep Roads since he knows where to find the Grey Wardens in time. (I didn't think to bring Anders either. I thought Nathaniel was going to magically come to the rescue, but his cameo was much later.)
Yeah on my second playthrough, I had heard that the sibling could become a Grey Warden so I brought Bethany thinking that we'd just stumble across some Wardens that would help her. I brought Anders last time so I figured I'd bring somebody different. When she died instead I was rather annoyed and reloaded.
Kerran can be reinstated in the templars under supervision if you have Merrill in your group to determine if he's possessed, choose to.. not sure if it was just let him go, it's not to turn him over.. and then you go to the opening area and vouch for him (I think you still need Merrill in the party, can't remember). As you first load into the area, on your right by the weapon and armor shop, you'll see Kerran, Cullen I think it was, and maybe an onlooker. They'll be talking a little bit. Talk to Cullen or whoever the other templar is to vouch for Kerran's clean bill of health.
Rule of thumb in DA2, there are a lot of choices that only show up if your character has a certain dominant tone or specific companions with you.
edit: Funny. My first two Wardens started out pretty promiscuous, so my fCE slept with Cammen, then my mHN slept with Geyna. 
It wasn't as much fun getting them together, lol, but you could do both with high enough persuasion.
I went back and replayed the entire Deep Roads on my first DA2 playthrough to save Bethany and make her a warden. I really didn't like taking Anders on that trip because my goal was to take Bethany and Merrill (Hawke family present and future 
), and Varric was required. Wish we could have taken three others and had Varric as a come along there. It's one of the best moments in the game though, I guess, but it was frustrating.
Kerran can be reinstated in the templars under supervision if you have Merrill in your group to determine if he's possessed, choose to.. not sure if it was just let him go, it's not to turn him over.. and then you go to the opening area and vouch for him (I think you still need Merrill in the party, can't remember). As you first load into the area, on your right by the weapon and armor shop, you'll see Kerran, Cullen I think it was, and maybe an onlooker. They'll be talking a little bit. Talk to Cullen or whoever the other templar is to vouch for Kerran's clean bill of health.
Rule of thumb in DA2, there are a lot of choices that only show up if your character has a certain dominant tone or specific companions with you.
This is in act 1, you need either merril or anders to determine if keran is possessed, the discussion is about the tile in act 3 after the kidnapping of your brother/sister/lover/friend by keran and his templar "friends"
Hmm.. I guess I forgot which act it was. I haven't played DA2 in a while. All running together. I don't know if I even remember seeing him again. The main thing I remember is his sister thanking you for getting his job back. All of my Hawkes are pro-mage though.
Does anyone know what happens to him in Act 3 if you don't let him back into the templars in Act 1?
I think what some people have been trying to say is that the choices for Keran in the Act 3 section of the Keep are actually the choices you could make in Act 1 in game and vice-versa. I've sent a couple of bug reports about this in the past.
The wiki only mentions that you can either kill Keran or let him go and he leaves the order in Act 3. I'll try to check this out in game this weekend.
Does anyone know what happens to him in Act 3 if you don't let him back into the templars in Act 1?
He´s still part of the group that kidnaps... someone... the only thing that changes is the quest in act 2. (replaying DA2: once i reach act 3 will have more info)
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
About Keran, I was given all three options in game including turning him over to the Templars. If you have your love interest with you at the time, they'll convince Hawke to let him go though. If you don't he gets turned in like Idunna does in Act 1.
About Dagna, you can convince her to stay with her dad. I did it with my Dwarf Noble. She's pretty sad about it, but accepts it.
That is not true, all options are always visible.
I think the poster meant "Not all options are visible in the game", not in the Keep.
There are loads of options in-game that only appear when you've taken certain routes - a huge difference from Mass Effect when you'd get greyed-out dialogue for Paragon or Renegade when you were on the other route. Like how siding with Sir Varnell is only available to violent options. The dialogue option in this case is almost always in the lower-right corner, and will show up with an icon that indicates what unlocks it - clashed swords for option only available to the violent, a mask for those only open to sarcastic Hawke.
Origins did the same thing with bracketed text, usually (Persuade) or (Intimidate). The persuade options I knew about, but I'd already played Origins five times before I knew there were options that only unlock at 20 or 30 cunning as (Cunning), many of them very early in the game when you're unlikely to have that.
For what it's worth, I've turned Keran in to the Templars (on a pro-Templar route), I've let Keran go (on an anti-Templar route), and on my last playthrough I killed him myself. I didn't see anything odd about the Act 3 tile, but I don't remember if I'd done anything specific to unlock those.
Keran was a minor character in the story considering. You get to save him from Tarohne and her blood mages and get to decide wheather or not Keran stays in the Templars or gets kicked out later on. If you chose to give Keran to the Templars a few years later Keran is forced into high debts to pay since he was kicked out of the Templar Order and had no way of bringing in money.
No matter his fate, he still takes part in kidnapping someone from Hawke's companions but in the end he still leaves the Templars out of his own choice and not forced by anyone.
Presumably you might bump into him later on or his name or role might be mentioned since he still took part in the first stages of the Mage-Templar war and might be considered an important element in the rebellion Thrask created. Until now only Keran and Alain are still alive from Thrask's rebellion since survivors were made an example of by Meridith.
About Keran, I was given all three options in game including turning him over to the Templars. If you have your love interest with you at the time, they'll convince Hawke to let him go though. If you don't he gets turned in like Idunna does in Act 1.
About Dagna, you can convince her to stay with her dad. I did it with my Dwarf Noble. She's pretty sad about it, but accepts it.
Fine then HOW do you do either of these things? I've tried everything I can think of and neither happens. If I tell Kerran the templars will decide his fate, he just leaves and never ends up in templar custody. It doesn't matter who is there with me.
If I go to Dagna's father and tell her she wants to be a mage he asks me to talk her out of it. If I go to her and say "Your father doesn't want you to be a mage" and "You should do what your family wants" she just says "No! They ruin everything" and the conversation ends.
What am I supposed to be doing instead?
EDIT: I guess it must be a lack of cunning or something? None of my Orzammar level wardens have level 30 cunning.
Fine then HOW do you do either of these things? I've tried everything I can think of and neither happens. If I tell Kerran the templars will decide his fate, he just leaves and never ends up in templar custody. It doesn't matter who is there with me.
If I go to Dagna's father and tell her she wants to be a mage he asks me to talk her out of it. If I go to her and say "Your father doesn't want you to be a mage" and "You should do what your family wants" she just says "No! They ruin everything" and the conversation ends.
What am I supposed to be doing instead?
EDIT: I guess it must be a lack of cunning or something? None of my Orzammar level wardens have level 30 cunning.
For the first, it's more a lack of unique programming for the different choices. Keran is assumed to be turned into the Templars, or assumed to be let go. I've been wracking my brain to think if there was unique dialogue with Meredith or Cullen afterward, but it's been awhile since I took that route. I only remember that Keran responds differently.
The second comes down to Persuade skill, IIRC, which is a matter of ranks in Persuade+Cunning points. I usually have those pretty high on every playthrough, so I've never tested the level.
(It's been a long time since I did either of these, but I do remember they were options.)
For the first, it's more a lack of unique programming for the different choices. Keran is assumed to be turned into the Templars, or assumed to be let go. I've been wracking my brain to think if there was unique dialogue with Meredith or Cullen afterward, but it's been awhile since I took that route. I only remember that Keran responds differently.
The second comes down to Persuade skill, IIRC, which is a matter of ranks in Persuade+Cunning points. I usually have those pretty high on every playthrough, so I've never tested the level.
(It's been a long time since I did either of these, but I do remember they were options.)
Does he respond differently? So far as I can tell every last piece of dialogue from Meredith, Cullen and Kerran is identical whether you let him go or say "I'm not getting involved. The templars can decide your fate."
He even says he's going straight to Macha's in both cases. You can only mention him to Meredith after he's already free in Lowtown. There's nothing that indicates he was ever turned over to the templars.
In most other cases of "mostly the same outcome" for choices there is at least a couple different lines of dialogue.
I thought this choice was confusing. In my game, I told Cullen "Please go easy on him. Let him stay in the templars, to support his family." I wasn't sure how to reflect that in the Keep.
That's the Act 1 choice, isn't it?
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