392 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Lol. Players are implicitly encouraged to undertake acts against women that can also be taken against men and explicitly lowers your score. Therefore, it's misogynist. I love that logic.

[Isichar]

I wish she would accept CH Sommers' invitation to debate her as part of a panel. That would be something to see. CH Sommers doesn't have intimate knowledge of video games, but as a feminist academic, she is fearsome when it comes to dismantling the craziness that tends to emanate from third wave feminism.

 

I'm not entirely sure who that is but that does sound rather entertaining (will look her up when I get home from work)

[Mr.House]

Has she tried to block them from making counter videos?  Or does she continue to make her videos and bring up evidence in her videos that runs contrary to what they are saying?  If it's the former, then yeah, she's avoiding discussing it.  If it's the latter, then, she's doing exactly what I would expect an academic to do.  It's not like academics have debates like politicians.  She makes a point, someone else makes a counter point, she makes another point, etc.  That's academics.  You don't have to respond directly to the person by name.  Although, in written papers, that's usually covered in citations.  In an academic presentation, I rarely mention another researcher by name (it's kind of tacky to do) and instead allude to concepts that they've raised and then provide the evidence for my argument. 

 

Again, I think she's kind of right on the mark for academia.  She's sloppy, in my opinion, with her generalizability which is ultimately why I can't back her fully.  But she's certainly not simply "shouting nonsense".

Saying people who enjoy playing Bayonetta only play it to get aroused is "spouting" nonsense.

[LPPrince]

Ishten, I'm gonna repost these videos you linked, because after watching them, OH MY GOD THIS LADY IS YES

 

 

 

BE MY MOM, LADY

 

MY SECOND MOM, I ALREADY HAVE ONE

 

AND MY ACTUAL MOM IS A CASUAL GAMER(Facebook+iPad games, folks)

 

Up above, Isi^

I'm not entirely sure who that is but that does sound rather entertaining (will look her up when I get home from work)

[daveliam]

Perhaps statistical significance is a step too far--but she certainly must show whether it is common or not, if she is indeed arguing that it is common. And that means collating a representative sample of video games (which means hundreds at the least) then examining each female, or each female "lead," or whatever the criteria is there.

 

Is she doing that? Or is she picking maybe ten games and using them to generalize? That's a serious question, I really don't know.

 

Edit: http://en.wikipedia....in_video_gaming

 

She claims to have played hundreds of games.  There's debates as to whether she has really done this.  She certainly, in the videos of hers that I've seen, shows at least two dozen examples per video and there are about 4 or 5 videos, so her sampling is sound.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I'm not entirely sure who that is but that does sound rather entertaining (will look her up when I get home from work)

 

>2014

>Supports #GG

>Not knowing your own Based Mom

[LPPrince]

Saying people who enjoy playing Bayonetta only play it to get aroused is "spouting" nonsense.

 

I tried to play the first game on 360. Combat was great, but the story was so hard to understand I dropped it early. I watched it played instead.

 

Bayonetta herself is cool as *expletive* though.

 

[slimgrin]

Has she tried to block them from making counter videos?  Or does she continue to make her videos and bring up evidence in her videos that runs contrary to what they are saying?  If it's the former, then yeah, she's avoiding discussing it.  If it's the latter, then, she's doing exactly what I would expect an academic to do.  It's not like academics have debates like politicians.  She makes a point, someone else makes a counter point, she makes another point, etc.  That's academics.  You don't have to respond directly to the person by name.  Although, in written papers, that's usually covered in citations.  In an academic presentation, I rarely mention another researcher by name (it's kind of tacky to do) and instead allude to concepts that they've raised and then provide the evidence for my argument. 

 

Again, I think she's kind of right on the mark for academia.  She's sloppy, in my opinion, with her generalizability which is ultimately why I can't back her fully.  But she's certainly not simply "shouting nonsense".

 

My honest take on her is she's repeating a canned narrative that's been fed to her, and she has no personal investment in the subject outside of attention and money. I'm not an academic, but I've read academic papers, and in them there's a degree of thoroughness and veracity I find lacking in her approach.

[Mr.House]

Bayo and Father Peacock are the best.

[Isichar]

@LP

 

mofo! I just ran out of likes too X3

 

Ty though!

Looking forward to checking them out when I get back

[LPPrince]

No worries Isi, if you remember you can give it out later/tomorrow/whenever. No biggie.

[daveliam]

Saying people who enjoy playing Bayonetta only play it to get aroused is "spouting" nonsense.

 

I can't argue with you on that one.  If that was her actual quote (just clarifying because people have misquoted her already in this thread), then yeah, she's totally wrong.  Certainly people play Bayonetta for other reasons.

 

I'm clarifying because I'm not sure if that was her actual quote or not.  If she said, "People who enjoy playing Bayonetta only play it to get aroused." that's one thing.  If she didn't say that.  Or if she said something about Bayonetta being hypersexualized and people have interpreted as that quote, then I find it really amusing that it's many of these same people who dismiss her because of hyperbole and grandstanding.  She's guilty of that.  But, in my experience, her critics (and I'm not talking about the extreme ones who are violent and abusive in their language, but the regular board posters) are just as guilty of it as her.

[Clover Rider]

Bayonetta is good.

 

Gamergate is bad.

[Isichar]

No worries Isi, if you remember you can give it out later/tomorrow/whenever. No biggie.

 

Will do!

[daveliam]

My honest take on her is she's repeating a canned narrative that's been fed to her, and she has no personal investment in the subject outside of attention and money. I'm not an academic, but I've read academic papers, and in them there's a degree of thoroughness and veracity I find lacking in her approach.

 

Again, I can't really argue with this statement.  I don't like the quality of her work either.  And arguments like the one you just made make sense to me.  It's the ones that go way beyond that and become dismissive and rude that make me gain some sympathy for her in that regard. 

[General TSAR]

 

Like Matt and Pat say, "The hypest!"

[LPPrince]

I would say you should distance yourself from the monkeys throwing fecal matter if you want to be indulged in a debate, but we're still at the stage that some Breitbart goon is being held up as a paragon of investigative journalism, so good luck.

 

This is what gets me, as Sarkeesian and co. say, "If you don't want to be like them(the trolls), don't use #gamergate"

 

Wat

 

You know what that sounds like? Let me bring it up for the third time-

 

"If you don't want to be like the terrorists, don't call yourself Muslim"

 

Sounds ridiculous, right? It is. Just as ridiculous as gamergaters looking for another name for their movement because of the actions of some crazies.

[General TSAR]

Note how Sheploo punches her signifying that he considers her as an equal, as opposed to smacking her and showing that he considers her beneath him.

Yep and Sarkeesian wants to remove that equality.

[daveliam]

Consider that there were probably three hundred complete new releases in 2013 (I went through that link up to June and found about 200), I'm not convinced that two dozen is acceptable for generalizing over a large space of time.

 

Additionally, YOU'RE talking about examples. But I'M talking about sample size. Without knowing the sample size, her conclusions are hard to accept. And not just size, but TYPES. If she's generalizing that "video games are misogynist," I sure hope she's sampling games like Minecraft or Plants vs Zombies. Because that's one of the tricks, too--expand your sample size but only over a specific region (I can't remember the terms for it) so it supports your assertion.

 

Sample size is only relevant in quantitative research.  You can do solid qualitative research with N =1, provided you are really clear that what you are doing is describing a phenomenon that you studied and discussing theory and implications in relation to that context.  For example, you can study a single school and say, "This school is a case study of ____".  What you can't do is say, "This school is a case study of ____, so all schools must be like _____."  Because of that, in social science research, you don't have to pick a representative sample, because you're looking to explore in depth a single phenomenon.  For example, you can study 200 people with ADHD without making it representative by demographic.  You just have to make sure that you don't say, "The results of this study apply to all people with ADHD." and then acknowledge the ways that you think it would vary in other contexts.

 

I agree with you that she over generalizes.  That's my issue with her.  Not any of the other nonsense that gets thrown at her.

[LPPrince]

but the whole movement is rotten

 

And this is an example of Sarkeesian and co. getting exactly what they want with what they're doing.

 

This is why people have been getting defensive.

[slimgrin]

Except it's not just the fringe sending rape and death threats that's the problem. They're the worst of it, for sure, but the whole movement is rotten. Maybe when this thread stops holding up disgusting pieces of **** as 'good soldiers' for gamergate I'll consider otherwise.

Incidentally that's the exact sort of thing the Breitbart goon says about Muslims, except in this case it's actually true.

 

No dogma here folks. Move along, nothing to see.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Milo's an arrogant chauvinist who is in it for the career boost. But GJP was undoubtedly a bombshell that was a great piece of investigative journalism. The two things don't cancel each other out.

 

When people start distancing themselves from people like Ian Miles Cheong (a former Neo Nazi) and Leigh Alexander (who holds thinly veiled contempt for black people), then I will consider turfing Milo.

 

Anyways, this is getting a little off-topic.

 

As for Anita being refuted, here is a pretty popular video from Thunderf00t: