392 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

When I was in high school if a student made a claim like what she did, was asked for examples, and a deflection was made, the teacher would hold us accountable for it and keep asking until we gave examples. We were taught to be ready.

 

Lets not pretend this isn't something that could've been pushed. Three specific examples would not have been hard to give if she wanted to add credibility to her statements, so why not?

 

Did you read Alan's post in this thread?  He addresses why he thinks she did that and it makes much more sense to me than "She can't name three games even though we've seen her name, literally, dozens of games in the past."  Even if the argument is that the videos are not written by her, you think she can't name three games?  I feel like I could ask my mom (who hasn't played a video game beyond WiiSports in the past thirty years) and she could name three games with violence towards women.  It's just not logical to think that this woman couldn't do it and was "on the spot".  I think Allan's explanation for her deflection makes more sense.

[BroBear Berbil]

Every single thread about her on this forum has been more about her credibility than the actual points she raises, including this one.  I'm not only talking about the actual harassment she makes, I'm talking about how people make it about the messenger instead of the message.  

 

 

The message relies on twisted facts and taking situations in games out of context.

 

Let's talk about DA:O, specifically the city Elf origin that they used a clip from in the Colbert interview. She didn't bother to mention that if you're a female elf you save yourself and the other prisoners. She doesn't mention that Shianni attacks Vaughn to begin with. She doesn't mention that regardless of what Origin you choose, you can murder Vaughn while he's imprisoned and this is seen as a righteous, if not good act.

 

All that matters to her is that there were women in a game and they were "acted upon".

[LPPrince]

 

Reposting this lol. He completely hammers her on the Hitman thing.

 

It is so painful to hear the manipulation she's pulling there. Cringe-worthy.

[daveliam]

 

Look, this is kind of the point.  She isn't the most credible person.  She claims to have been a video game fan as a kid and then in that video states that she wasn't a fan at that time.  She's probably exaggerating how much she likes games when she talks about it now.  But that doesn't mean that she's not making valid points or hasn't played the games that she's claimed to play recently. 

 

This is what Lady Nuggins was talking about when people don't argue her points, they argue her credentials.  I genuinely don't care how long she's been a gamer (if she even is at all).  She makes some valid points.  She makes some crazy overgeneralizations as well. 

 

I guess it's just annoying to me to see people argue against her credentials, claim she's using hyperbole, and then use hyperbole and misquote her.  I see both 'sides' of this argument to be equally right and equally wrong.  And the people who make rude and dismissive comments about her character, instead of her arguments, are the worst of the bunch.

 

With that, I think I'm done with this thread because it's getting less rational and more toxic by the hour.  I do have to say that there are some people in this thread who I have vehemently argued with in other threads that I found to be logical and open to discussion in this thread, so that's kind of cool.  I like to see 'party lines' disintegrating a little bit.

[General TSAR]

The message relies on twisted facts and taking situations in games out of context.

 

Let's talk about DA:O, specifically the city Elf origin that they used a clip from in the Colbert interview. She didn't bother to mention that if you're a female elf you save yourself and the other prisoners. She doesn't mention that Shianni attacks Vaughn to begin with. She doesn't mention that regardless of what Origin you choose, you can murder Vaughn while he's imprisoned and this is seen as a righteous, if not good act.

Nothing like good ol' cherry picking.

 

My old awesome-as-all-hell debate teacher who despises cherry picking like the plague would tear her hair out at sarkeesian fact manipulation. 

[LPPrince]

Nothing like good ol' cherry picking.

 

My old awesome-as-all-hell debate teacher who despises cherry picking like the plague would tear her hair out at sarkeesian fact manipulation. 

 

Hah, there are a ridiculous number of women tearing their hair out at her fact manipulation already, and those women are gamers.

[LPPrince]

Hah, s'all good, s'all good.

[Dio Demon]

Milo's an arrogant chauvinist who is in it for the career boost. But GJP was undoubtedly a bombshell that was a great piece of investigative journalism. The two things don't cancel each other out.

 

When people start distancing themselves from people like Ian Miles Cheong (a former Neo Nazi) and Leigh Alexander (who holds thinly veiled contempt for black people), then I will consider turfing Milo.

 

Anyways, this is getting a little off-topic.

 

As for Anita being refuted, here is a pretty popular video from Thunderf00t:

 

The horse dies in the middle of that clip and he continues to beat it.

[slimgrin]

Look, this is kind of the point.  She isn't the most credible person.  She claims to have been a video game fan as a kid and then in that video states that she wasn't a fan at that time.  She's probably exaggerating how much she likes games when she talks about it now.  But that doesn't mean that she's not making valid points or hasn't played the games that she's claimed to play recently. 

 

This is what Lady Nuggins was talking about when people don't argue her points, they argue her credentials.  I genuinely don't care how long she's been a gamer (if she even is at all).  She makes some valid points.  She makes some crazy overgeneralizations as well. 

 

I guess it's just annoying to me to see people argue against her credentials, claim she's using hyperbole, and then use hyperbole and misquote her.  I see both 'sides' of this argument to be equally right and equally wrong.  And the people who make rude and dismissive comments about her character, instead of her arguments, are the worst of the bunch.

 

With that, I think I'm done with this thread because it's getting less rational and more toxic by the hour.  I do have to say that there are some people in this thread who I have vehemently argued with in other threads that I found to be logical and open to discussion in this thread, so that's kind of cool.  I like to see 'party lines' disintegrating a little bit.

 

You're saying, I don't care if she knows that she's talking about, if she happens to hit the mark by accident, I support her! Enabling. I thought feminists hated that?

[Isichar]

Hah, there are a ridiculous number of women tearing their hair out at her fact manipulation already, and those women are gamers.

 

My sister is one of those women.

 

 

So just a few thoughts I'll just throw out there. Death threats can happen anywhere.. schools, internet forums, work, out on the streets. It's not something particularly exclusive to gamers. I'm not trying to trivialize it, and I do think it should be dealt with as strictly as possible regardless of where it happens. I mentioned in the last thread that most public places have ways of dealing with that, even threats made over the internet can be taken seriously and I've heard of many cases of people going to jail for doing just that. I don't agree with threats in anyway shape or form myself, and if I actually saw someone threaten another person I would do what I could to take action against it.

 

That said I can't help but feel that much of the passion people argue against Anita with, is too easily and automatically associated with the threats that allegedly have been made, which whether is intended by her or not (It is possible it's not, although I personally do believe it is) comes off as an excuse to deflect criticism. Many people are quite apposed to what she says, and yet are not "attacking" her the way it is portrayed, but we all get lumped together all the same. It really just reminds me of what Fox news does (I think someone else mentioned something similar here earlier) and anyone who understands why people become so frustrated with Fox should be able to understand our frustration with Anita. 

 

I mean I can still watch her videos and just judge each point she makes on its own merits regardless of my feelings towards her. Surely I don't need to agree with everything she says (I can even disagree with most of it, which I do) to admit she has some good points and acknowledge she has every bit of right to be making these videos. I just think she handles it all rather poorly.

[Overdosing]

I just love how Anita's being compared to Sarah Palin in this video:

 

[LPPrince]

Basically, she'll say something

 

people disagree with some of it

 

some idiot attacks her

 

she blames those people for it

 

those people defend themselves

 

she manipulates that defense into looking like another attack

 

cycle repeats

 

look at the recent "toxic masculinity" tweets she made for an example

 

I remember looking at that and head tilting for an extended period of time

[LPPrince]

I just think she handles it all rather poorly.

 

That's a big part of why she gets so much criticism. Not because she's a woman, not because she's entirely wrong(she isn't), she just goes about what she says TERRIBLY, and the glowing praise she gets for it along with the horrible response you get if you happen to question or disagree with it is mental.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Wait...what good points has she made?

 

It seems to me that she's whining about how guys like guy stuff and trying to make it sound like that's a bad thing. >__>

[slimgrin]

I want proof games cause misogyny. Can anyone step up and prove games cause misogyny? Because that is Anita's implicit accusation. Please do prove this.

[LPPrince]

I mean lets be honest, there is some terrible stuff that happens to women if they're online gamers. You hear about under the belt pics being sent all the time.

 

But why is this blamed on games? How do we know this isn't caused by other sources? I've never felt compelled to send something like that to a woman online because of anything in the gaming industry(or outside of it for that matter). So what gives?

 

Someone should ask Sommers(Based Mom). She probably has research she can do on it that she'll actually show.

[Cassandra Saturn]

all points she made is completely no good. she should cease with all those Misogyny posts.

[daveliam]

I want proof games cause misogyny. Can anyone step up and prove games cause misogyny? Because that is Anita's implicit accusation. Please do prove this.

 

No, it's not what her accusations are.  Either you don't understand or you are unwilling to attempt a logical conversation.  Again, I don't like her, but if you are going to argue against her, at least be accurate and use fact.  Isn't that supposedly exactly what Anita's crime is too?

[Mr.House]

Basically, she'll say something

 

people disagree with some of it

 

some idiot attacks her

 

she blames those people for it

 

those people defend themselves

 

she manipulates that defense into looking like another attack

 

cycle repeats

 

look at the recent "toxic masculinity" tweets she made for an example

 

I remember looking at that and head tilting for an extended period of time

And like it has been said, she's even fabricated some big threats for the purpose of playing victim. That is a big no no in my books. That right there is enough to destroy your integrity.

[Dio Demon]

And like it has been said, she's even fabricated some big threats for the purpose of playing victim. That is a big no no in my books. That right there is enough to destroy your integrity.

Can you provide evidence? I've been hearing people say that for ages. But not once have they given me actual evidence.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I don't think it's fair to say Anita has been fabricating threats. There's no evidence of that. I think she is likely to exaggerate them (such as the USU one), but I haven't seen anything to suggest that she fabricates them.

 

That's more Wu territory.

[Inquisitor Recon]

And like it has been said, she's even fabricated some big threats for the purpose of playing victim. That is a big no no in my books. That right there is enough to destroy your integrity.

Doesn't matter to her cult of personality, the evidence against her is all fabricated by the patriarchy out to oppress women by keeping them out of video games.