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Guest_Act of Velour_*
I don't think it's fair to say Anita has been fabricating threats. There's no evidence of that. I think she is likely to exaggerate them (such as the USU one), but I haven't seen anything to suggest that she fabricates them.
That's more Wu territory.
Yeah, I doubt she lied about threats, but she certainly exaggerated them and baited people into threatening her. Threatening's still wrong, obviously, but she definitely baits it for the attention and the money.
You know what I really, really like about all of this? It's the same thing I like about all those PSAs and "tips" for women to be safe and to avoid being sexually assaulted. Why do we tell women what to do to avoid these things, when instead we should be telling people to not sexually assault women? Why do people like Sarkeesian attack games for making people misogynists instead of telling people to not be misogynists in the first place? If someone becomes a misogynist, they're a piece of ****, and it's entirely their fault. Video games aren't to blame for it, the people are to blame. Misogyny is indeed a real problem, but instead of spending efforts attacking what people think is encouraging misogyny, why not attack the misogynists themselves?
We should also tell murderers not to kill and thieves not to steal. I think you might be onto something here.
Advising women to go out with a group of friends and not to get blackout drunk is kind of in the same vein as looking both ways when crossing the street - it's good advice. An individual has some responsibility in minimizing risks to themselves.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
That's actually a good example of how Bioware is a firm believer in gender equality. Note how Sheploo punches her signifying that he considers her as an equal, as opposed to smacking her and showing that he considers her beneath him.
I will assume this is sarcasm.
Why would that be sarcasm? There's a pretty good point in there.
Also, whats this I heard about gamergaters finding one of Sarkeesian's attackers, someone who's not actually affiliated with gamergate, and Sarkeesian not chomping at the bit to get them?
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Also, whats this I heard about gamergaters finding one of Sarkeesian's attackers, someone who's not actually affiliated with gamergate, and Sarkeesian not chomping at the bit to get them?
Celebrando.
**** that guy. He is a total idiot
Guest_Act of Velour_*
We should also tell murderers not to kill and thieves not to steal. I think you might be onto something here.
Advising women to go out with a group of friends and not to get blackout drunk is kind of in the same vein as looking both ways when crossing the street - it's good advice. An individual has some responsibility in minimizing risks to themselves.
I see your point, but I think my idea and yours would work well in cooperation, of course. Yeah, let's discourage misogyny in forms of media, but let's not forget that, when it comes down to it, it's entirely up to the individual. People who follow Sarkeesian want to blame the "evil patriarchy" and video games for misogynistic attitudes, instead of blaming misogynists themselves.
No, it's not what her accusations are. Either you don't understand or you are unwilling to attempt a logical conversation. Again, I don't like her, but if you are going to argue against her, at least be accurate and use fact. Isn't that supposedly exactly what Anita's crime is too?
What are her accusations? Is she claiming that video games encourage misogyny? If so, does she provide any proof? Proof of a game, any game, encouraging violence against women in particular? I can't think of any myself and i've been playing games for 20+ years.
If anything in the U.S. is going to make a man a misogynist it's gotta be modern dating. Am I right? Women want to treated equally and fairly and yet the man STILL has to foot the bill simply because he's a man! *badoom tisshhh*
Modifié par JSlither, 01 novembre 2014 - 03:15 .
What are her accusations? Is she claiming that video games encourage misogyny? If so, does she provide any proof? Proof of a game, any game, encouraging violence against women in particular? I can't think of any myself and i've been playing games for 20+ years.
If anything in the U.S. is going to make a man a misogynist it's gotta be modern dating. Am I right? Women want to treated equally and fairly and yet the man STILL has to foot the bill simply because he's a man! *badoom tisshhh*
I'm of the mind if you ask someone out no matter the circumstances you foot the bill.
Has Anita ever spoken out about misogyny in anything other than video games and pop culture? There's women out in the world that still get stoned to death and treated like second-class citizens.
If she's so concerned about misogyny then she should stop making a big deal about nothing, and focus her efforts on calling out real misogyny, the kind that leads to women being murdered for being accused of adultery.
What are her accusations? Is she claiming that video games encourage misogyny? If so, does she provide any proof? Proof of a game, any game, encouraging violence against women in particular? I can't think of any myself and i've been playing games for 20+ years.
If anything in the U.S. is going to make a man a misogynist it's gotta be modern dating. Am I right? Women want to treated equally and fairly and yet the man STILL has to foot the bill simply because he's a man! *badoom tisshhh*
Watch her videos and determine for yourself. I'm not going to interpret for you. If you've watched them, then you understand what her message is. If not, then you either didn't pay attention or didn't understand her. She's not necessarily likeable or terribly clean with her research, but she's certainly understandable to someone who pays attention. You don't have to agree with her, but you should be able to figure out her main points.
Celebrando.
**** that guy. He is a total idiot
Oooooh
http://www.reddit.co...zilian_guy_who/
http://www.reddit.co...ians_harassers/
I see your point, but I think my idea and yours would work well in cooperation, of course. Yeah, let's discourage misogyny in forms of media, but let's not forget that, when it comes down to it, it's entirely up to the individual. People who follow Sarkeesian want to blame the "evil patriarchy" and video games for misogynistic attitudes, instead of blaming misogynists themselves.
So true.
Don't hate the magic. Hate the mage.
I'm of the mind if you ask someone out no matter the circumstances you foot the bill.
You're joking right? How many women will ask a guy out? The human race would end damn near overnight if no men no longer had the guts to risk rejection and ego bruising by asking women out.
Don't hate the magic. Hate the mage.
Such a gamer thing to say, hahaha
The message relies on twisted facts and taking situations in games out of context.
Let's talk about DA:O, specifically the city Elf origin that they used a clip from in the Colbert interview. She didn't bother to mention that if you're a female elf you save yourself and the other prisoners. She doesn't mention that Shianni attacks Vaughn to begin with. She doesn't mention that regardless of what Origin you choose, you can murder Vaughn while he's imprisoned and this is seen as a righteous, if not good act.
All that matters to her is that there were women in a game and they were "acted upon".
Why do you mention Shianni attacking Vaughn?
I want proof games cause misogyny. Can anyone step up and prove games cause misogyny? Because that is Anita's implicit accusation. Please do prove this.
You'll never get that. It's in the same vein as saying "video games CAUSE violence".
Games may not CAUSE misogyny, but they may correlate to an increase in misogyny. I'm going to emphasize that I don't know if that's true.
What I do know is true is that there is CORRELATION of video games leading to a to a (temporary) increase in violent thoughts in the people who play them. To say that video games actually contribute to violence is ignoring any of the other myriad of factors that can also lead to violence that do not involve video games.
Moving back to the misogyny topic. If there is a correlation to an increase of misogyny among video game players then we will never be able to show if there's a causal relationship.
To show a causal relationship we would have to isolate children, have them grow up entirely in a laboratory, separate them into groups of who can play video games and those who can not, and then consistently test them on levels of misogynistic thoughts. Which is also how you would show a causal relationship with video games and violence.
The thing being that it would be highly unethical, and I doubt an Institutional Revue Board (or even a university for that matter) would ever allow such a study to occur.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Celebrando.
**** that guy. He is a total idiot
Serious question: Why is he trying to speak English?
You're joking right? How many women will ask a guy out? The human race would end damn near overnight if no men no longer had the guts to risk rejection and ego bruising by asking women out.
We are an adaptive race. If we can make something as useless as a snuggie we can change our dating rituals.
We are an adaptive race. If we can make something as useless as a snuggie we can change our dating rituals.
This is a sig worthy quote and I'm going to be sad if someone doesn't make it so.
This is a sig worthy quote and I'm going to be sad if someone doesn't make it so.
I ran out of likes.
Watch her videos and determine for yourself. I'm not going to interpret for you. If you've watched them, then you understand what her message is. If not, then you either didn't pay attention or didn't understand her. She's not necessarily likeable or terribly clean with her research, but she's certainly understandable to someone who pays attention. You don't have to agree with her, but you should be able to figure out her main points.
Why can't you tell me? You seem pretty knowledgeable of her views and i'm sure can inform me of them. So how about it? Pwetty pweez?
See, I do agree but evidence points to Anita not finding such a distinction. Like it or not, she has become a prominent figure in the industry to the point where she can actively influence the design of games.
I guess where I'm going with this is how do other feminists feel about Anita and Jonathan's somewhat puritanical view of sexualised women in media.
Because I see zero professional disagreement with her in the games industry and the media, and anyone who does so is branded a misogynist or anti-feminist.
She has become a prominent figure in video-games, but video-games are an irrelevant little swath of entertainment compared to feminism as a whole. Anita Saarkesian is not even on the radar of actual feminist intellectual figures, so to talk about the response to her in mainstream feminism is a bit beside the point. It's like asking why mainstream feminist theorists don't respond, I dunno, to a random person on twitter who happens to have a lot of followers.
There's zero "professional" disagreement because there's no such thing as a professional feminist, and anyone who really has an influence in "feminism" (broadly understood as the academic world) doesn't even have video-games on the radar because there are bigger and more important issues out there.
Of which there's nothing wrong with.
There are very many things wrong with it, not the least of which is that women don't exist for the purpose of giving dudes an erection.
Because men are generally regarded as expendable in media. They can die horrible gruesome deaths by the truckload and it is often presented as matter of fact.
And that's another example of sexism. It's a gender distinction about the individual value of human life.
Why can't you tell me? You seem pretty knowledgeable of her views and i'm sure can inform me of them. So how about it? Pwetty pweez?
Probably because s/he's trying to get you to develop your own views instead of telling you what you should/should not believe?
We are an adaptive race. If we can make something as useless as a snuggie we can change our dating rituals.
I fully agree.
But as it stands it is entirely unfair to expect a man to support a woman financially while dating when she can full well support herself. Once upon a time men oppressed women and forced them to be little more than housemaids, cooks, and baby factories. In some areas of the world this horrible tradition continues. But here in the U.S. and many other modern thinking nations women can do just about whatever they want and many women actually make more money than the guys that they're dating and yet the poor sap is still expected to foot the bill. Sad is it not? Where is the equality and modern thinking in such behavior?
I say always go dutch. Not many women i've met are willing to do this though lol. I remember watching a YouTube video years ago in which a girl met a guy for a date and he asked if it was cool that they split the cost. She replied that she's in a bad way financially and was hoping for a more traditional (from ancient times of female oppression) form of date. The video was a comedic one and the guy was supposed to come off as a jerk and indeed he said some pretty jerky things but asking to split the bill wasn't one of them in my opinion.
Modifié par JSlither, 01 novembre 2014 - 03:47 .
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