392 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I am a postgraduate student, I am training to be an academic and what Anita Sarkeesian does is in no way, shape or form, academic.

 

Discussing things in an academic manner and being academic means these things:- 

 

1) Having credibility as an academic.

 

2)Having credible sources.

 

3) Being able to view the sources not through a specific lens or narrative but through different context.

 

4) Willing and being able to defend your thesis and your claims, with evidence and facts.

 

5) Tolerating your opponent's rational but perhaps opposing views.

 

Anita Sarkeesian does none of these things. Here is what she does:- 

 

1) She claims to play hundreds of games yet there is a video of her saying that she is not a gamer and she does not like to play games. That is the equivalent of an academic falsifying their academic credentials. You would be branded outright as a fraud. 

 

2) She has no sources that are peer-reviewed or that have been published in a journal. In academic setting this will render your argument weak and pointless.'

 

3) She views games as being inherently misogynistic towards women, cater to the male fantasy and nothing else. An academic who does this will be viewed as having a choked viewpoint on things and not a very good academic.

 

4) She has never defended her views from critique by other people, she blocked comments on her videos and blocked ratings as well. An academic will never do that, no matter what. 

 

5) She got Twitter to block people like Thunderfoot / Phil Mason who did plenty of logical refutations to her claims. She has also, to date, never seen on a public setting debating someone who holds the opposing viewpoints. This again, is something an academic should not do because it amounts to censorship and restriction of ideas.

 

6) She uses logical fallacies and strawman to make her points, like she did with the recent DA:O thing. An academic who know what they are doing would not do such a thing.

 

Those who say she is an academic either:-

 

1) Do not know what academic and academia are all about.

 

2) Have only seen academics who are not very good at being one or faux academics or academic wannabe try to be academic, fail spectacularly at it and associate that with academic. 

 

If Anita Sarkeesian was judged by actual academic standards, she would fail, she would fail badly, she would have little to no credibility and she would certainly not be given a platform to discuss or propagate her views.

 

If one wants an academic feminist soman who does what academics do, Christian Hoff Summers is the woman you should be looking to. Why ?:-

 

1) She has credibility.

 

2) She has defended herself against criticisms.

 

3) She does not cherry-pick or strawman or misrepresent things.

 

4) She calls herself as a feminist yet does not allow her judgement on issues be affected too much by it. 

 

5) She is also quite fair to the demographic that feminists typically do not cater to such as men and boys. She has published credible books on men and boys. 

 

5) She does not practice any form of censorship, be it to block her comments or her ratings or to get someone banned from a social media site for not agreeing with her. 

 

I will only say one thing: you are definetly not an academic. 

[Dio Demon]

 

I recall a story in 2013 or so when Gaider (or one of the other writers) mentioned that they were talking about a romance plot in DAI. One of the female writers looked at the plot and commented that the scene could be interpreted as the Inquisitor raping the female character. All of the other writers did not see the plot that way until it was pointed out, and they ended up rewriting the entire plot because of it. 

 

 

WHAT!? NO! It was interpreted as possibly being creepy by the female writers. There was no specification on whether or not it was the Inquisitor or even if the victim was a female characters.

 

Excuse me while I go hunting for the blog post.

 

Edit: *gives up*

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Guys, we're getting a little off-topic here.

 

Anyways, some old videos I just found taking on Sarkeesian and her arguments.

 

 

[Isichar]

Out of curiosity do you think feminists should abandon the banner feminists because of a few hateful women that believe that if you aren't like them or male you are pathetic and scum?

 

For those who support LGBT should they abandon their banner because of a few people that bash on others that do not have the same sexuality as them?

 

No matter the group, no matter the origin there's always going to be those few who taint it. It just means those who aren't tainting it have to work that much harder to ensure they're voices are heard.

 

Just as you all know, I do not support #GamerGate mainly because I find the idea of hashtag movements on twitter of all places an exercise in futility. I do support the idea of weeding out unethical journalist practices. Listen to Totalbiscuit's latest podcast on his channel he actually has a discussion with the head editor of Kotaku about this whole matter.

 

 

I just got done with that interview. Very interesting. I can always trust TB to bring an interesting discussion to the table.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I will only say one thing: you are definetly not an academic. 

 

1) It's definitely, not definetly. 

 

2) Explain why you made that claim. Develop counter arguments that have evidence. Suggest alternatives on how I can perhaps improve. That is what an academic does. An academic can analyze, refute and critique. They do not just point and label something. Doing that has no inherent value without any explanation. 

[LPPrince]

1) It's definitely, not definetly. 

 

Okaaay, c'mon now. We get it, but yeeeah, lets try to avoid pointing out things like that. Lets have this thread keep on keepin on.

[Dio Demon]

Okaaay, c'mon now. We get it, but yeeeah, lets try to avoid pointing out things like that. Lets have this thread keep on keepin on.

I could've sworn this thread got nuked temporarily... Blood magic?

[LPPrince]

I could've sworn this thread got nuked temporarily... Blood magic?

 

Aye it did. Sometimes a thread will get temporarily taken down so it can be looked at before being brought back.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Oi oi, we can write many senseless comments, so the good ones go to minority and people miss them.

[Dermain]

WHAT!? NO! It was interpreted as possibly being creepy by the female writers. There was no specification on whether or not it was the Inquisitor or even if the victim was a female characters.

 

Excuse me while I go hunting for the blog post.

 

Edit: *gives up*

 

I ended up looking it for myself. So far I have a Kotaku article with this statement:

 

The team was having a peer review about the game, and it seemed as if everything about a certain plot point was fine. Then, someone spoke up. A woman. The plot point, she argued, could easily be seen as a form of rape. Everyone became stunned—not because she was off-base, but because she was right. She was right, even though the writer didn't intend the scene to come off way, even though the team considers itself to be progressive.

 

http://kotaku.com/59...creepy-sex-plot

 

Here is also a link to Gaider's blog post about the issue: http://dgaider.tumbl...ame-development

 

As it happened, most of the guys went first. Typical stuff— some stuff was good, some stuff needed work, etc. etc. Then one of the female writers went, and she brought up an issue. A big issue. It had to do with a sexual situation in the plot, which she explained could easily be interpreted as a form of rape.

[BroBear Berbil]

 

Exactly. 

 

Which is probably the point behind John Epler's tweets, as well as Gaiders blog post.

 

 

I recall a story in 2013 or so when Gaider (or one of the other writers) mentioned that they were talking about a romance plot in DAI. One of the female writers looked at the plot and commented that the scene could be interpreted as the Inquisitor raping the female character. All of the other writers did not see the plot that way until it was pointed out, and they ended up rewriting the entire plot because of it. 

 

The point being, that just because you do not see it does not mean that it isn't there. 

 

What would have been the response towards BioWare had they left in a romance plot that could be seen as the player character raping a female character?

 

 

This is actually one of the things that irks me about DA:I's writers. I believe the exact phrase he used was "a form of rape".

 

One female writer interpreted another writer's work as a form of rape so whatever it was to begin with gets altered. The thing is, people have all kinds of sensibilities and if you start trying to cater to every single person who may find something offensive, what are you left with? Well, from what I'm seeing progressively from DA2 and DA:I, it looks like a neutered franchise.

 

What was "this is the new ****", dark fantasy, (poor) blood and gore, and adult themes has become: ride the bull, technically he's pansexual, forms of rape, don't you dare ask about torture in a game called Inquisition, oh but here's a torture scene where the person is fully armored and easily escapes her captors...

 

Maybe, just maybe, BioWare can do enough to please Anita so they can sit beside esteemed company like Anthony Burch.

 

Except that this isn't what's happening. Right now, the preponderance of evidence isn't that we've got a small minority of insane sexists co-opting a well-established and valuable cause about equality. What it looks like is that we have a public group who suddenly plopped into existence to defend the sexist/mysognistic treatment of a woman, and whose publicly-identified members often go on thinly-veiled (and not so veiled) sexists tangents. 

 

If ethics in gaming journalism is so important, then why did this group just happen to pop into existence when it did, as opposed to literally any other time? 

 

http://time.com/3222...t-will-not-die/

 

There is a need for feminism.

 

In Iran

In Somalia

In Thailand

In China

 

etc.

 

In the West they've won. Boomer women rule the world. Now it's not a struggle for equality but for privilege.

 

GG just happened to come into existence because one woman's spurned boyfriend cracked the blinds just enough to start seeing the ties between game devs and the journalists who are supposed to be covering and critiquing them, supporting indie devs through patreon yet not disclosing it in articles, etc.

 

Mistrust for games journalism didn't just come out of nowhere though, it's been slowly building. There was the Mountain Dew/Dorito thing, EA's publicity stunts, Jeff Gerstmann's firing to name a few.

 

Oh and the reaction of said journalists and indie devs really helped to fuel the fire too.

[Dio Demon]

I ended up looking it for myself. So far I have a Kotaku article with this statement:

 

 

http://kotaku.com/59...creepy-sex-plot

 

Here is also a link to Gaider's blog post about the issue: http://dgaider.tumbl...ame-development

Ahh I stand corrected for some part. But it doesn't imply that it was the Inquisitor and a female companion. That assertion is quite sexist in itself as it does imply that if it's a rape situation the woman is always the victim.

 

It could've been the Iron Bull, Cullen or even Cassandra being in the dominant? position in that scene. 

[LPPrince]

Listening to TB's discussion with Stephen Totilo, and Mr. Totilo admits that games journalism has moved on from...screw it, quote time

 

 

"A whole lot of gaming journalism is completely boring, is completely co-opted by corporations, and all of us(myself included) are to blame for that, to blame for the fact that game journalism started out as more of a consumer-guide sort of thing, and then a trade publication kind of thing, and really for too long has been dictated by what corporations are interested in having gaming publications write."

 

That's what Gamergate is actually about. Gonna keep listening to this.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

 

What was "this is the new ****", dark fantasy, (poor) blood and gore, and adult themes has become: ride the bull, technically he's pansexual, forms of rape, don't you dare ask about torture in a game called Inquisition, oh but here's a torture scene where the person is fully armored and easily escapes her captors...

There is a need for feminism.

 

In Iran

 

Pansexuals are abomination!

 

Iran? Not really. Women in Capital City don't need to be more annoying.

[daveliam]

I am a postgraduate student, I am training to be an academic and what Anita Sarkeesian does is in no way, shape or form, academic.

 

Discussing things in an academic manner and being academic means these things:- 

 

1) Having credibility as an academic.

 

2)Having credible sources.

 

3) Being able to view the sources not through a specific lens or narrative but through different context.

 

4) Willing and being able to defend your thesis and your claims, with evidence and facts.

 

5) Tolerating your opponent's rational but perhaps opposing views.

 

 

Okay, I'll bite.  Since we seem to be comparing academic credentials:

 

1.)  So you are an academic by having academic credibility......  And, let me guess, you get academic credibility by being an academic?  Nice circular logic there.  I can't imagine that a committee member would approve.......

2.)  Agreed.  For academic presentations and journals, you need to use peer-reviewed sources.  For informal presentations like a blog, I wasn't aware of a peer-reviewed process.  That being said, she does list sources which are 'peers', such as other blogs.  If she was presenting a formal academic presentation at a conference, I would also expect to see peer-reviewed sources, but she's not, so her sources are appropriate.

3.)  100% incorrect.  In qualitative research, it's required to have a conceptual or theoretical framework through which you view your data.  It adds to the coherency of the work and allows you to tie to a larger specific academic conversation.  Now, I will grant you that she does allow her frame to bias her interpretation of the data and that's a no-no.  She should still attempt to let her data lead her analysis and not the other way around.  It's definitely a reason why I don't think she's a very strong researcher.

4.)  She does this.  She presents her information and defends it in other settings.  I don't blame her for not engaging in anonymous internet discussions.  Imagine this, you are at an academic conference at 1% of those in attendance wear masks and instead of actually discussing your comments, use violent and abusive language and threaten your life.  How long would you continue to attend those conferences?  She sets the terms about how she will discuss her work and, frankly, given what's been happening to her, I don't blame her.  Remember that she didn't start with the comments disabled.  That's a product of the reactions that she received. 

5.)  I haven't seen her been intolerant to other views.  She's not responded directly to other videos, but in the few interviews that I've seen her in, when she's presented with an opposing viewpoint, she responds logically and rationally.  I have certainly not seen her been intolerant any near the degree that others have been to her.  In response to your claims that she uses logical fallacies and straw men.....I'd like some evidence from your end.  The DA: O example is neither.  It's, at worst, a piece of evidence taken out of context and misrepresented. 

 

Frankly, if you preparing for academics, then you know that what Anita Sarkeesian does is actually based on academic argumentation.  It's sloppy work and she overgeneralizes, but the statement that it's "in no way, shape, or form academic" either is a blatant exaggeration on your end or you misunderstand academics.  Coming from a fellow academic.

[Dermain]

Ahh I stand corrected for some part. But it doesn't imply that it was the Inquisitor and a female companion. That assertion is quite sexist in itself as it does imply that if it's a rape situation the woman is always the victim.

 

It could've been the Iron Bull, Cullen or even Cassandra being in the dominant? position in that scene. 

 

The implication is that it was a scene involving the Inquisitor.

 

While a companion character may have been the instigator the seen itself is still questionable regardless of the whole "Dark fantasy" theme. While rape itself has a presence in the setting it usually occurs to side characters, or to a companion character generally before the events in the game.

 

It becomes questionable when the rape involves the main characters, especially if it is the main character being the rapist. If the main character was the rapist it would come with the complaint of encouraging rape (regardless of the fact that it may not be intended). It also has the chance of changing the rating of the game from M to AO, which is generally a bad thing.

 

@Frogdog:

 

We also lack the context of the Leliana torture scene, and as mentioned it may have been edited in the main trailer simply because it's a trailer. 

 

Seeing as we didn't get any confirmation on nudity in DAI until fairly recently, it stands to reason that the scene may have Leliana not be fully clothed.

 

If it turns out that the scene in the trailer is exactly how it occurs in the game, then you have a legitimate complaint.

[Inquisitor Recon]

What was "this is the new ****", dark fantasy, (poor) blood and gore, and adult themes has become: ride the bull, technically he's pansexual, forms of rape, don't you dare ask about torture in a game called Inquisition, oh but here's a torture scene where the person is fully armored and easily escapes her captors...

At some point Tumblr-level stupidity has become the new "cool" and topics like those somehow more mature than dark fantasy.

[Allan Schumacher]

This thread has long since outlived its usefulness.

 

Closed.