27 réponses à ce sujet

[Snook]

Leliana, no. I can see why some people might like to do that, but to do so you basically have to tell her she's like the woman who betrayed her love and trust, stabbed her in the gut and threw her in prison to be abused for weeks. That always rubbed me very, very wrong. If there was some other way to do it, I might have, but even then I think I prefer the more charitable, repentant Leliana. 

 

Alistair, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I do think he needs to toughen up, but...to people she actually liked, my canon Warden was just way too nice to tell him to basically suck it up and that everyone's just out for themselves. 

[DracoAngel]

For Leliana I switched often between the two. Why? Uh... good question. It was fun?

 

As to Alistair: After the first time I ever played I had no idea what "hardening" meant. When I first saw topics on hardening him I was a little leery of those posts for obvious reasons   So I had unintentionally made him unhardened. I love Alistair, he is my fantasy romance. But a unhardened Alistair I will admit got a little on my nerves with his roll over and take it attitude. If he wasn't such a door mat, I probably would have been okay with letting him remain that way.

 

But, as I said, I didn't want him to be a door mat for anyone. And he (at least according to end slides) is a better king when hardened. This also allowed me to continue my romance as his mistress if I'm not a Fem! Cousland (which I will admit effects my decision to harden him A LOT), since I play as a mage more often than not and it was devastating to me when he ended things the first time I played with him unhardened.

 

I still say if you harden him you should be able to marry him no matter your race or if your a mage or not! I picture a hardened Alistair wanting to be with the woman he loves no matter what, and not having to keep her as a backroom mistress (a prospect I hate, but if its the only way to have him if he's made king...) and be damned the consequences! Heck, Maric talked about marrying an elf before she was found out to be a spy. And besides, isn't a Fem! Human Mage's family in the Free Marches nobility (or close to it)?

 

Even in a hardened state, he keeps his good nature and doesn't truly become self-centered. He still cares about the people in his life and the people he will lead (if made king). He just doesn't allow himself to be bullied into things and I felt that a good thing going into be a King with nobles whispering in his ears and a sort-of Uncle Eamon who I always felt had ulterior motives to begin with.

 

And with all this talk of hardening and unhardening him, I feel like a terrible tease...

[Ryzaki]

Hardened Leliana. She is a master of deception

 

And hardened Alistair too. Mostly because hardened Alistair is very sexy

[WarriorOfLight999]

Absolutely hardened Alistair. Forgetting everything else, it's what will serve him best in his life.

 

I flip flop on Leliana a lot. Unhardened means she's still as fanatical as before, and I'm no fan of the Chantry. Hardened, however, means she's now a full on bard. I know she considers Ferelden her home, but I'm not sure I can trust her after hardening her. Hopefully she can remember who her friends are, even ten years down the road.

[The Manc]

I hardened Alistair just so that he would rule with the Queen. Also I wanted Loghain to live. 

 

Oh Loggy-poos is a misunderstood character, but shown from the many's point of view in that he is all about power, when in fact he's one of the proudest patriots you will see in a game.

[gnewna]

Haven't hardened Leliana yet, don't know if I'm likely to. Usually harden Alistair, as I generally would rather he was king than Loghain's scheming kid remain queen, particularly after her blatantly manipulating/deceiving the Warden. As far as the bluntness of the dialogue option for hardening him, as far as I'm concerned dialogue options are a rough "gist" of what you might say (as seen in DA2 where Hawke's spoken lines are not the same as the option you click on, and occasionally are quite different to what I'd thought they meant) so with my FDC Warden who was in love with him, she probably said something like "you're a good man, but you're a bit too trusting, some people are just after what they can get" and gave him a hug. My MCE will probably be a bit more blunt about it, although still not quite as bad as "yeah, well, everyone sucks, get used to it!" Ultimately, it is decent advice, and I think he needs to hear it. 

 

Also, re getting a non-HNF lover to be queen, to be honest he's lucky that the Landsmeet are willing to essentially take it on faith (and strong resemblance) that he really is who (or rather what) Eamonn claims he is, he has absolutely no claim to the throne other than "there's no other descendant of Calenhad left, that we know of", he's not a legitimate heir nor is he even an acknowledged bastard of Maric. Legally, he's as much the heir to the throne as a certain muscular young man is in A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones (and much less so than, say, Jon Snow is any kind of heir to Ned Stark, which is still "not much"). It would be absurd to push the idea of being permitted to marry the non-human and/or non-noble woman who's just convinced everyone, mainly through sheer baddery of ass, to make him king in the first place. Possibly were it not for what he knows about the probable infertility of Grey Wardens (and the truncated lifespan) he might lobby for it at a later date, but when his being made king is still somewhat hanging in the balance? No, that would be too big a risk.

 

Of course, in my head being his mistress is rather more like being Madame de Pompadour (http://en.wikipedia....me_de_Pompadour, basically an "official mistress" of sorts to King Louis XV of France, who held several titles and had a lot of influence on the king) than just a series of grubby backroom fumbles (although that idea isn't without a certain charm...) Plus, I'd rather that than being queen, knowing it was only a matter of time before we had to either find a baby for him to adopt or find a new queen, though I'm not sure how they'd handle that given Alistair is likely shooting blanks, I suspect whoever he's married to (especially if it's 'probably infertile unless it was Cailan who was' Anora) they'd end up finding a cousin or someone to provide an heir.

[Bardox9]

I harden them both. There are a lot of little reasons, but mainly because their world view is too simple and just childish. Time to grow up.

[Nette]

I usually harden Alistair, mostly because I want him to be a good king. I also like that he stands up for himself more.

And I love his reaction to the threesome with Isabella

 

And Leliana I like more when she's hardened.

[Auztin]

I harden them both.Alistair who would be too much of pushover & Leliana was just to nice & naive.Sexy Cold blooded spy like Salt without the love thing is just awesome

[MouseHopper]

I've tried it both ways for both of them.  Prefer Alistair unhardened, although I agree with some that he can occasionally be a tad wishy washy.  Still love him though.  I just don't care that much for Leliana one way or the other, so it doesn't matter enough to me.  Her character has always rung false to me, so hardened or not, I do not trust her.

[ummiehummie]

Alistair, I hardened.

 

Problem with Leliana = IDK if I hardened her or not... I knew about the hardening thing AFTER I did her quest. But I already forgot what I said. Time to find out I guess!

[Monica21]

I always harden Alistair except for my first playthrough because the dialogue options are really horrible for it. As it is, I want him to rule with Anora and it just makes it easier.

 

I never harden Leliana because she's sweet and adorable and no one should ever be mean to her.

[BioWareM0d13]

Yes to both. 

 

Alistair ends up a better king if hardened, and I prefer Bard Leliana to Chantry Nun Leliana. Also, dat rendezvous with Isabela.

[Radan]

I've never hardened Leliana, she just completely changes and I can't do it. Alistair however, I always harden. He still has a humorous and witty personality, but he's a better king and stands up for himself.

[Colbyachi]

Hardened, to leave her unhardened and naive is much much worse in my book. 

[Kenshen]

Yeah I don't like the change in Leliana so I leave her be.  I am not an Alistair fan so I don't harden him so he won't interrupt my plans.

[rohanks]

I harden Alistair if I want him to marry Anora and pursue one of those outcomes. Though I quite like unhardened Alistair as King. I don't think as one of his subjects you could accuse him of guile or artifice. And by the time you get to the start of the final battle he seems comfortable with command.

 

I always harden Lolly. Just in case I want to go down the 'soil the ashes' route. I like the dialogue you can have with her as she comes to the realisation of what she truly is. While maintaining that sweet countenance through to the rest of the game.

[Isaidlunch]

I didn't harden either on my self-insert run.

 

Didn't harden Alistair because 1) I don't force him to be king at the Landsmeet, and 2) I didn't have it in me to choose the dialogue option right after the Goldanna incident. I think it's better for him to be hardened but that dialogue option feels too much like kicking him while he's down.

 

As for Leliana, I'd rather not encourage her towards her old lifestyle after knowing how much pain it caused her. Obviously being a sister in the Chantry wasn't right for her but I think she was right to leave the life of a bard behind. I admire her for striving to be a better person and she can still achieve that while being an adventurer (e.g. fighting the Blight, Chantry expedition at the end of DAO).

[Fardreamer]

You should definitely harden Alistair... he needs to learn lessons about life to be a good king.  So if you're going to make him king, and you want him to be a good king, you better harden him.

 

Leliana doesn't really matter either way.  If you want to to go back to her life as hedonistic rogue/bard/assassin harden her.  If you like her faith in Andraste, don't harden her.  Looking at the trailers for DA2 it looks like she keeps her faith in Andraste, as she's in the Chantry's service, but she gets very hardened by events after DA:O.

[Chuvvy]

Leliana seems to "harden" regardless in DAI, so does Alistair, if the comic is anything to go by. He straight kacks a few people without even thinking about it.

[Klidi]

Whether I do it or not depends on the Warden I'm playing. I always try not to play them all the same way, but give them their own personality and let them make their own decisions for their own reasons - that's the biggest charm of RPGs for me.

 

My 'canon Warden' from my fanfic hardened them both. He learned Alistair's real identity rather early in the game, and they talked about options - Alistair becoming a king, or leaving Ferelden in the hands of the man who murdered Cailan, Duncan, and thousands of others. Alistair accepted his fate, and with the help of Leliana, Wynne, Zevran and few others he started to prepare for ruling. It helped a lot in negotiations with the nobles. So, Alistair was hardened. Weak king would be just a puppet in the hands of others.

 

Leliana is a bard. And a lay sister with the seeker symbol...Many of my Wardens don't believe in her  'vision', and suspect she's much more hardened than she pretends, so she's almost always ends hardened. Those Wardens who don't harden her are either too innoncent and childish themselves, or too weak and naive. >.> Such as Alim, who never lived outside the Tower, and who spent last three years isolated from other apprentices and abused by Templars - as a result, he's too meek and submissive and simply accepts what people tell him (playing a weak Warden for a change was surprisingly fun )

 

But, I don't like the way either is done in the game - way too simplistic and unreal. I wish Bioware had done it in more subtle way, depending on several less obvious dialogues, so it would depend on the whole playthrough, not on two creepy dialogues. I especially hate after-Goldanna dialogue - I don't like a single option there.

[Dutchess]

I harden Leliana most often. It's not necessarily mean to tell her she enjoyed her life as a bard and doesn't need to hide from that fact. Alistair varies a bit more. If I play a nice character I wouldn't pick the line about everybody being out there for themselves. It's a very unsympathetic thing to say right after he met his shrew of a sister. I tend to do it if I need him hardened for my romance (no pun intended), though not enthusiastically.

[Nightshade715]

Usually I don't harden Leliana, and harden Alistair only in those play-throughs where I intend to make him a king.