268 réponses à ce sujet

[trying_touch]

There's same-sex marriage in Mass Effect :-) I mean, the PC never married, but there were characters of the same gender who were married in the game. I think they can include it in DA, in the same way that they introduced it in a subtle way, like by passively mentioning a character's same-sex spouse, and no one blinks an eye.

[herkles]

From the codex on Sexuality in Thedas, a codex found during one of the past streams. 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

"What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands. 

 

Typically, one’s sexual habits are considered natural and separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility, where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance. Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family might be allowed to pursue their own sexual interests without raising eyebrows.

 

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.”

 

- From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi

[daveliam]

There's same-sex marriage in Mass Effect :-) I mean, the PC never married, but there were characters of the same gender who were married in the game. I think they can include it in DA, in the same way that they introduced it in a subtle way, like by passively mentioning a character's same-sex spouse, and no one blinks an eye.

 

They certainly could introduce if they wanted to and it wouldn't conflict any in-game or in-source lore.  It sounds like it's not really the direction that Gaider wants to go with it.  It's a little disappointing, but as a married gay guy, frankly, marriage is overrated anyway.  If it weren't for the tax breaks and about 100+ other small perks that married couples get, we wouldn't have done it and it has not changed our lives in any meaningful way.  And since none of the reasons that I mentioned are relevant to Thedas, I don't think it's the worst thing.  Disappointing, but not the worst thing.  Particularly since it's not like they have o/s marriages either. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You mean the pairings that go against the norm and actually upset the balance? Big surprise.

The intersection of marriage and romance is a relatively modern notion, so that doesn't really bother me, especially since same sex couples wouldn't face the issues they do today like visitation and funeral rights because marriage would be a religious and social arrangement rather than a legal one like it is today. Unlike contemporary times, marriage was primarily a business contract between families in order to gain power and produce heirs. Unfortunately, with the exception of Alistair/Anora/Warden, the other major mentions of marriage from Leandra and Aveline are completely modern and that is anachronistic and a slip on Bioware's part.

Fact remains that marriage solely for love is in the setting. There are many things anachronistic in Dragon Age. Should those be removed as well? 

 

Yeah, but where exactly is the teaching in the setting that people shouldn't have sex before marriage? I seem to have missed that. If that implication isn't in the setting, then they are being fair to the characters.

Just because there is nothing that says people shouldn't do something doesn't mean that nobody would think that way. It is just as a personal choice. 

 

Well, so far that means there has been at least one character per dragon age game?  Not that that is helpful to your request, but it means it is possible a similar situation may happen in DAI? I assumed marriage wasn't brought up because those characters do live in those lifestyles, and wouldn't have thought to bring it up themselves. However an option to bring it up would be interesting, as well as their reaction. I can imagine Josie going "Oh...this means I have to tell mom and dad...eek!" lol. Of all the love interests I'd imagine her to be most likely looking for marriage. However, we also have characters who may be against marriage. I might be remembering wrong, but wasn't one of the reasons Dorian was ostrisiced from Tevinter society because he wasn't interested in getting married? He didn't want to play their political game? (minor reason, but I coulda sworn I saw that somewhere...)

 

I remember playing DA2 for the first time, and hitting that scene with fenris and going but I'm not like that?! But then it wouldn't fit into his character to become tied to a person, so I understood. Merrill already felt like she was betraying her people being with a human, so I can't imagine her wanting to get married as well either. Anders though...that relationship definitely seemed like it could have gone the marriage route, so you're right it would have been nice to have the option. But the I love yous and the "I want you here until the day I die" felt like an unofficial marriage to me. But I get the feeling love based relationships in thedas don't really go that route (official rather than unofficial) unless for political gain or that a baby is on the way. Perhaps the term "lover" caries more weight in that world than it does in this one? I felt like Masked Empire addressed the issue well, with the term Consort (I think that was the word?) having more political power than a spouse due to degree of influence.

Bioware already confirmed that there are none in Inquisition. As for none fitting that lifestyle, there are 8 LIs of 4 different sexualities. There was plenty of room for at least one. I agree Josephine would have been a likely one. You are right with Dorian being an outcast partly because he is gay and doesn't want to marry. Iron Bull and Sera also don't see the type. Blackwall may not since he is going on his Calling soon. Cassandra and Cullen are prime examples since they are both devout Andrastrians and heterosexual so the whole not supporting same sex marriage doesn't even apply. Cassandra especially since she is a romantic. Not saying they should only do heterosexual marriage in DA since everyone should be able to marry who they want, but they by far have the least strings. 

 

 

There's same-sex marriage in Mass Effect :-) I mean, the PC never married, but there were characters of the same gender who were married in the game. I think they can include it in DA, in the same way that they introduced it in a subtle way, like by passively mentioning a character's same-sex spouse, and no one blinks an eye.

Yeah, the Mass Effect franchise has no in-lore arguments to not have the option. 

[trying_touch]

Mass Effect was set in the near-future of our own world, though. Gay marriage was becoming an accepted thing long before the events of Mass Effect, since that was what's happening in the present day. Dragon Age is set in a fictional medieval-fantasy world, so none of our own social examples or rules really can be applied.

I know... all the more reason why they can remove the taboo our society has placed on homosexuality. What better way to do it than to make a "fictional medieval-fantasy world" with "none of our own social examples or rules " for a medieval society.

 

By that, I mean, because back in our medieval days, same-sex marriage was non-existent, in this "medieval" setting, same-sex marriage should exist, cause it'll be cool.

[trying_touch]

They certainly could introduce if they wanted to and it wouldn't conflict any in-game or in-source lore.  It sounds like it's not really the direction that Gaider wants to go with it.  It's a little disappointing, but as a married gay guy, frankly, marriage is overrated anyway.  If it weren't for the tax breaks and about 100+ other small perks that married couples get, we wouldn't have done it and it has not changed our lives in any meaningful way.  And since none of the reasons that I mentioned are relevant to Thedas, I don't think it's the worst thing.  Disappointing, but not the worst thing.  Particularly since it's not like they have o/s marriages either. 

Getting married actually changed our life quiet a bit. One, we were able to move to the US together; two, I was able to do it while staying in the military, and lastly, I no longer have to worry about my life insurance money (if something happens to me) being spent gambling by my irresponsible brothers.

 

So, I want to see it in Dragon Age :-) I want to be able to legitimize my commitment to either Dorian or Sera in the face of all societies, I want them to have a legal claim on the Inquisition if I have to perform another Ultimate Sacrifice, and I want everyone we meet to know that society can be changed, and that marriage should be about love, and that such a marriage is not selfish, rather selfless.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Fact remains that marriage solely for love is in the setting. There are many things anachronistic in Dragon Age. Should those be removed as well? 

 

Just because there is nothing that says people shouldn't do something doesn't mean that nobody would think that way. It is just as a personal choice. 

 

Bioware already confirmed that there are none in Inquisition. As for none fitting that lifestyle, there are 8 LIs of 4 different sexualities. There was plenty of room for at least one. I agree Josephine would have been a likely one. You are right with Dorian being an outcast partly because he is gay and doesn't want to marry. Iron Bull and Sera also don't see the type. Blackwall may not since he is going on his Calling soon. Cassandra and Cullen are prime examples since they are both devout Andrastrians and heterosexual so the whole not supporting same sex marriage doesn't even apply. Cassandra especially since she is a romantic. Not saying they should only do heterosexual marriage in DA since everyone should be able to marry who they want, but they by far have the least strings. 

 

 

Yeah, the Mass Effect franchise has no in-lore arguments to not have the option. 

I don't disagree. That's why I pointed out Leandra and Aveline. If those examples hadn't been in DA2, then I would have taken it without question. But since they've already been anachronistic about marriage, I don't find that to be a reasonable excuse anymore. Especially with Leandra since the Chantry would have never given their blessing to a mage.

 

Although, I suppose Leandra and Malcom could have considered themselves married, and there'd be nothing stopping a same-sex couple from doing the same. Since marriage isn't a legal institution, as far as we know since we're basing it off of medieval tradition, it doesn't really have any meaning outside of you, your spouse, and whatever higher power you do or don't believe in. Other people might not respect your wishes about how you label your relationship, but that's of little consequence. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Getting married actually changed our life quiet a bit. One, we were able to move to the US together; two, I was able to do it while staying in the military, and lastly, I no longer have to worry about my life insurance money (if something happens to me) being spent gambling by my irresponsible brothers.

 

So, I want to see it in Dragon Age :-) I want to be able to legitimize my commitment to either Dorian or Sera in the face of all societies, I want them to have a legal claim on the Inquisition if I have to perform another Ultimate Sacrifice, and I want everyone we meet to know that society can be changed, and that marriage should be about love, and that such a marriage is not selfish, rather selfless.

I completely understand wanting to see it, and I sympathize. That said, I'm given to understand that you should prepare to be disappointed, especially though not only if you romance Dorian or Sera.

[Muspade]

By that, I mean, because back in our medieval days, same-sex marriage was non-existent, in this "medieval" setting, same-sex marriage should exist, cause it'll be cool.

That'd be great except "marriage" Is hardly a thing outside nobility.

Also, Herkles post.

From the codex on Sexuality in Thedas, a codex found during one of the past streams. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

"What I find most interesting is that, despite the lack of open discussion on matters of human sexuality, there is commonality to be found on the subject in all Andrastian lands. 

 

Typically, one’s sexual habits are considered natural and separate from matters of procreation, and only among the nobility, where procreation involves issues of inheritance and the union of powerful families, is it considered of vital importance. Yet, even there, a noble who has done their duty to the family might be allowed to pursue their own sexual interests without raising eyebrows.

 

The view on indulging lusts with a member of the same gender varies from land to land. In Orlais, it is considered a quirk of character and nothing more. In Ferelden, it is a matter of scandal if done indiscreetly but otherwise nothing noteworthy. In Tevinter, it is considered selfish and deviant behavior among nobles, but actively encouraged with favored slaves. Nowhere is it forbidden and sex of any kind is only considered worthy of judgement when taken to awful excess or performed in the public eye.”

 

- From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi

 

[trying_touch]

I completely understand wanting to see it, and I sympathize. That said, I'm given to understand that you should prepare to be disappointed, especially though not only if you romance Dorian or Sera.

Hahaha, I know... I doubt marriage with a companion is possible this time around either, still, it'd be cool if same-sex marriage was just mentioned :-)

[Gothfather]

I'm failing to understand how the lack of marriage for everyone in DA: I is Bioware treating fans 'unfairly'. 

Yeah I am trying to figure that out too.

[Aolbain]

Based on absolutely nothing at all, probably not.

[Br3admax]

Fact remains that marriage solely for love is in the setting. There are many things anachronistic in Dragon Age. Should those be removed as well? 

One of those marriages wasn't even legal, but you're using it as evidence that you should be allowed to? 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Hahaha, I know... I doubt marriage with a companion is possible this time around either, still, it'd be cool if same-sex marriage was just mentioned :-)

The problem is the devs have mentioned it. They did so in the process of explaining that it almost certainly wouldn't even occur to anyone in-setting.

[trying_touch]

We should make this topic about how cool it would be to have same-sex marriage in Dragon Age, since we've already answered the OP's question.

[Raylis]

did the hawke and seb romance line have a marriage ceremony, or did they just decide to devote themselves to each other and decide they were married? How is marriage done in thedas? do you have to have a ceremony, or is it more like placing a label on yourselves?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't disagree. That's why I pointed out Leandra and Aveline. If those examples hadn't been in DA2, then I would have taken it without question. But since they've already been anachronistic about marriage, I don't find that to be a reasonable excuse anymore. Especially with Leandra since the Chantry would have never given their blessing to a mage.

 

Although, I suppose Leandra and Malcom could have considered themselves married, and there'd be nothing stopping a same-sex couple from doing the same. Since marriage isn't a legal institution, as far as we know since we're basing it off of medieval tradition, it doesn't really have any meaning outside of you, your spouse, and whatever higher power you do or don't believe in. Other people might not respect your wishes about how you label your relationship, but that's of little consequence. 

Sorry. Misunderstood what you were saying in that part, plus was replying to another similar point. 

 

Yeah, the marriage doesn't even have to be recognized by anyone other than the Inquisition. Heck, since you're in charge you get to decide what is acceptable or not. 

 

One of those marriages wasn't even legal, but you're using it as evidence that you should be allowed to? 

Fine, ignore Leandra and Malcolm. There is still Aveline and Donnic. 

 

 

We should make this topic about how cool it would be to have same-sex any type of marriage in Dragon Age, since we've already answered the OP's question.

Agreed. 

 

 

did the hawke and seb romance line have a marriage ceremony, or did they just decide to devote themselves to each other and decide they were married? How is marriage done in thedas? do you have to have a ceremony, or is it more like placing a label on yourselves?

It seems they just devoted themselves to each other and the Maker, since Carver doesn't even see it as a marriage. 

 

There are ceremonies at least for the Chantry and Dalish. 

[Ryzaki]

I don't disagree. That's why I pointed out Leandra and Aveline. If those examples hadn't been in DA2, then I would have taken it without question. But since they've already been anachronistic about marriage, I don't find that to be a reasonable excuse anymore. Especially with Leandra since the Chantry would have never given their blessing to a mage.

 

Actually even in DAO you can mention being married as a mage in a conversation with Teagan. Sounds like it's less it being forbidden and more just being unlikely that anyone would be willing to marry a mage to begin with. (since they can't marry each other or templars. And that's the people they primarily interact with to begin with).

[Br3admax]

Fine, ignore Leandra and Malcolm. There is still Aveline and Donnic. 

These two can, most likely, both produce children. Love is a bonus. 

 

Actually even in DAO you can mention being married as a mage in a conversation with Teagan. Sounds like it's less it being forbidden and more just being unlikely that anyone would be willing to marry a mage to begin with. (since they can't marry each other or templars. And that's the people they primarily interact with to begin with).

Malcolm is an apostate. though. Also mages and Templars are allowed to marry each other, from what I've heard. 

[Ryzaki]

These two can, most likely, both produce children. Love is a bonus. 

 

Malcolm is an apostate. though. 

 

Oh yeah XD I meant mages in general not just apostates.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

These two can, most likely, both produce children. Love is a bonus. 

Not the point. The point is people marry for love in DA. Aveline married Wesley and later Donnic because she loved them, not because she wanted to be a mother. 

[Br3admax]

Not the point. The point is people marry for love in DA. Aveline married Wesley and later Donnic because she loved them, not because she wanted to be a mother. 

That's why she married them. Not why the Chantry let them. 

 

Literally the only marriage that isn't like this is Sebastian and Hawke's, and it isn't exactly the Chantry that is stopping them, it's Sebastian himself. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

did the hawke and seb romance line have a marriage ceremony, or did they just decide to devote themselves to each other and decide they were married? How is marriage done in thedas? do you have to have a ceremony, or is it more like placing a label on yourselves?

Sebastian and Hawke are apparently married in the sight of the Chantry and not having sex. Carver is able (and inclined) to point out how stupid this is.