268 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Just because I would like the option to play a character that has my lifestyle doesn't mean I want all others to have to partake of it as well. That's the whole point of it being an option. Those who want it can have it, and those who don't want it don't have to have it. How is this forcing? 

 

And such thinking does exist in Thedas. Aveline and Donnic didn't marry for procreation, or titles, or anything like that. It was for love, plain and simple. 

Yes, but I was under the understanding that you think it follows from that that same-sex marriage is a concept. Which you have a logical case for, but we've already pointed out to you that nobody in Thedas is going to see that case.

[Br3admax]

Just because I would like the option to play a character that has my lifestyle doesn't mean I want all others to have to partake of it as well. That's the whole point of it being an option. Those who want it can have it, and those who don't want it don't have to have it. How is this forcing? 

The concept has to exist in Thedas, here being that people would actually care about your lifestyle in any way, shape, or form. They obviously don't, and no amount of people talking in this thread will change that. 

 

 

And such thinking does exist in Thedas. Aveline and Donnic didn't marry for procreation, or titles, or anything like that. It was for love, plain and simple. 

Aveline and Donnic had sex the moment they both thought they liked each other. Your lifestyle doesn't exist in Thedas. 

 

And if you're arguing for marriage based on love, realise that all marriage seen so far have the possibility to produce children. Marriage doesn't work the way you want it to in Thedas. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, but I was under the understanding that you think it follows from that that same-sex marriage is a concept. Which you have a logical case for, but we've already pointed out to you that nobody in Thedas is going to see that case.

The concept has to exist in Thedas, here being that people would actually care about your lifestyle in any way, shape, or form. They obviously don't, and no amount of people talking in this thread will change that. 

Aveline and Donnic had sex the moment they both thought they liked each other. Your lifestyle doesn't exist in Thedas. 

 

And if you're arguing for marriage based on love, realise that all marriage seen so far have the possibility to produce children. Marriage doesn't work the way you want it to in Thedas. 

I'm arguing more for marriage in general as an option more than just same sex marriage. 

[Br3admax]

I'm arguing more for marriage in general as an option more than just same sex marriage. 

Look, it wouldn't be far to homosexual relationships because the concept itself doesn't exist. Why should homosexual players be kept out of something that heterosexual players have? If you want to change that, why should DA reconstruct it's world simply to please a few fans? 

[revan017]

If Mass Effect can have gay marriages in their universe, why can't Dragon Age?

[KainD]

If Mass Effect can have gay marriages in their universe, why can't Dragon Age?

 

Because no currently known country in Thedas provides such service to it's citizens? 

[Br3admax]

Or because Mass Effect takes place in our universe? 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If Mass Effect can have gay marriages in their universe, why can't Dragon Age?

 

 

Mass Effect is just our world in 150 years time. Thedas is a completely different place.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Look, it wouldn't be far to homosexual relationships because the concept itself doesn't exist. Why should homosexual players be kept out of something that heterosexual players have? If you want to change that, why should DA reconstruct it's world simply to please a few fans? 

I never said that homosexuals should be left out. As for changing the policies in Thedas, every policy, both here and in Thedas, was started by one person. It is not hard to imagine that this can apply to them reimaging how marriage in Thedas works. After all, the Inquisition is already reshaping the world. Besides that, as others suggested just because the religions won't recognize it doesn't mean a secular marriage wouldn't work. That'd be the easiest solution since it also can help with the culture differences that come with different races being involved.

[Gothfather]

Bioware stated that Anders, Fenris, Isabela, and Merrill are all bisexual at GaymerX this year. 

As I recall during Production of DA2 they said their sexuality changed to match the character. That was their intent. It failed, if everyone identified them as bisexual it really doesn't matter what their intent was. But in the context of what I was saying and responding to, there was no agenda behind DA2 with regards to sexuality. It was done so that everyone got the same romance options, it reduced production time and cost on a already rushed product. The irony is that people hated it because of [blah blah blah]  but now people are going boo hoo the companion I wanted to romance doesn't fancy my plumbing. Bioware just can't win because by in large gamers as a whole group, not necessarily individuals, are unreasonable.

[Yermogi]

Essentially what the title asks. 

 

While there have been plenty of examples of gay couples, and we can even have gay romances in game, from my knowledge their has never been a married gay couple in any of the DA game or novels. 

 

Have I just missing a an obscure piece of lore or has this topic never been actually addressed so far. If not, then I can only hope we see one in Inquisition.

The Chantry doesn't condemn homosexuality or treat it as a sin, but marriage it made only between one man and one woman. If a person is gay and has a partner, that's fine, but since most noble families want their lines to continue, it's somewhat less acceptable for a person to never marry because they want heirs. So if a person is noble and gay, they're still encourage to get married and try to have kids.

 

At least that's what I've gathered on the topic from various interviews and conversations.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm arguing more for marriage in general as an option more than just same sex marriage. 

Oh. Well, that's fair, then. There's no reason marriage can't happen, and in fact if you romance Sebastian it does. And I wouldn't mind seeing that again. But the lore as previously established is that same-sex marriage doesn't exist in Thedas. So whether or not you'll get all of what you want depends on whether "marriage in general as an option" includes same-sex marriage. If that strikes you as unfair, well, all I can say is that Thedas is by design an unfair world.

[Gothfather]

The people of Thedas do not hold all the SAME values as people on earth. Marriage is not governed by sexual orientation it is governed as a means to produce heirs. Marriage = heir production. You can marry someone you love yes, but you DON'T marry as a public declaration of love. You marry to produce heirs. Same sex couples don't marry because they don't produce heirs and since marriage is not a symbolic seal of approval society has on your relationship Same sex couples don't feel the need to fight for this. Marriage is a seal of approval that any children born are heirs to the estates of the parents. That is ALL marriage is. Adoption covers the situation of having a child become your heir who isn't the offspring of a marriage. So that covers the other possible issue with Heirs.

 

If Marriage isn't a public declaration of love and it isn't a symbolic seal of appraoval placed on the validity or value of a relationship, why get married if you are not producing children?

 

That all said I understand that people are "invested" in the desire for X, but bioware is under no obligation to provide you X. They are under no obligation to express your value system. if you are against pre marital sex, then don't sleep with your romance option. If you want same sex marriage because its a right that all people should have, stop expecting BioWare to added it because of that. Bioware should only put in things if its integral to the story they WANT to tell. They should not be putting content to express value systems simply because people want it. Which value systems should bioware include? Who determines what fans get their values represented and to what capasity? BioWare writes their game based of the values most Canadians hold which can be summed up as Inclusive and representative. This doesn't mean they have to include and represent EVERY expression of EVERY value system possible. It means that if you look at Dragon age you can find representations of many different people, along with their values and beliefs. They never promised to show every possible variation of diversity and every belief.

[Br3admax]

I never said that homosexuals should be left out. 

They are. This is how the world of Thedas works. 

 

As for changing the policies in Thedas, every policy, both here and in Thedas, was started by one person.

Really stretching with the figuritive language. The whole, "one person starts change thing," doesn't happen in real life. Even if it did, it won't be happening in the 58 years we have left.

It is not hard to imagine that this can apply to them reimaging how marriage in Thedas works. After all, the Inquisition is already reshaping the world. 

Hardly. The Inquisition isn't going to reshape the world. Certainly not into a culture that doesn't exist anywhere in Thedas. 

Besides that, as others suggested just because the religions won't recognize it doesn't mean a secular marriage wouldn't work. 

No, it's the fact that no one has any religious or cultural reasons to care, is why it won't work. 

 

 

That'd be the easiest solution since it also can help with the culture differences that come with different races being involved.

The easiest solution would be to let Thedas be Thedas, as the writers want it to be. It's not your world, no matter how much the game is advertised that it is. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Hardly. The Inquisition isn't going to reshape the world. Certainly into a culture that doesn't exist anywhere in Thedas. 

While I'm aware the specific reform debated here isn't in the cards, I was hoping to have some influence over the course of Thedas's history.

[Br3admax]

That doesn't mean you'll completely reshape the culture, which is what I meant. I honestly doubt we'll have a cultural impact at all. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That doesn't mean you'll completely reshape the culture, which is what I meant. I honestly doubt we'll have a cultural impact at all. 

It seems to me we should have some ability to change Thedas's culture. I mean, we're being listened to because there's a pretty good chance we actually met, spoke with, and got a power boost from Andraste. It seems to me that would grant us some cultural capital.

[Br3admax]

No one thinks the Inquisitor actually spoke to Andraste. Just that the spirit met in the Fade is Andraste. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No one thinks the Inquisitor actually spoke to Andraste. Just that the spirit met in the Fade is Andraste. 

Wait, we don't converse with her? Not even a simple "... what just happened?"

[Br3admax]

Seen nothing to suggest it so far. Certainly not any religious dogma. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Seen nothing to suggest it so far. Certainly not any religious dogma. 

I'm fairly sure we're not going to be given any religious dogma, but people with a more tenuous claim to have some idea what's going through her head have nonetheless successfully given some. (I'm not saying this one isn't tenuous, just that more tenuous ones have been successfully sold.)

[lil yonce]

Wait, we don't converse with her? Not even a simple "... what just happened?"

 

Well,

Spoiler

It doesn't look that way from the artbook storyboard tbh.

EDIT: added spoiler tags.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh. Well, that's fair, then. There's no reason marriage can't happen, and in fact if you romance Sebastian it does. And I wouldn't mind seeing that again. But the lore as previously established is that same-sex marriage doesn't exist in Thedas. So whether or not you'll get all of what you want depends on whether "marriage in general as an option" includes same-sex marriage. If that strikes you as unfair, well, all I can say is that Thedas is by design an unfair world.

The problem is because of this issue, I'll get none of what I want. And most likely never will.

 

 

if you are against pre marital sex, then don't sleep with your romance option.

Bioware doesn't give you the option. In order to have a romance, you have to sleep with the characters. It has been this way since Jade Empire. The only exception is Sebastian, and that's because he took a vow of chastity. So if a player is against pre-marital sex, their only "option" is to not pursue a romance subplot and be forever alone or forsake their values and do it. 

 

 

They should not be putting content to express value systems simply because people want it.

One could argue that business-wise, if there is a market for something they should put it in because it increases their profits and goodwill among the consumer base, ensuring future profits. 

 

 

Really stretching with the figuritive language. The whole, "one person starts change thing," doesn't happen in real life. Even if it did, it won't be happening in the 58 years we have left.

Hardly. The Inquisition isn't going to reshape the world. Certainly not into a culture that doesn't exist anywhere in Thedas. 

This isn't real life, is it? Protagonists in Bioware games have drastically changed things in ways that would be near impossible in any other circumstance.

We already know that our actions will effect the mage situation in Thedas and to a lesser extent Orlais due to who we support. That is reshaping the world.

[Eterna]

We should be able to marry LIs in the games, whether opposite sex or same sex.

 

I hate how people associate marriage as being the end goal for all relationships. 

[ziyon conqueror]

Well, homosexuality is a bit scandalous for nobles. i.e. in The Stolen Throne, Meghren is suspected of being the one-time lover of Emperor Florian and was banished to Ferelden for upsetting him.