268 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I hate how people associate marriage as being the end goal for all relationships. 

Where did you get that I said it should be the end goal? I just think there should be the option for it if the player wishes. 

[Merela]

Well, homosexuality is a bit scandalous for nobles. i.e. in The Stolen Throne, Meghren is suspected of being the one-time lover of Emperor Florian and was banished to Ferelden for upsetting him.

 

The problem wasn't that Meghren and Florian were lovers, it was that they were first cousins actually.

[Hellion Rex]

The problem wasn't that Meghren and Florian were lovers, it was that they were first cousins actually.

Pretty much. The Orlesians cared a lot more about the incest than the homosexuality. Hell, the Empress right now is a lesbian.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Pretty much. The Orlesians cared a lot more about the incest than the homosexuality. Hell, the Empress right now is a lesbian.

Yeah. Also, dalliances with other races seems to be more scandalous than homosdexuality. For example Celene being with Briala has more flak due to Briala being an elf than her being a woman. 

[Gothfather]

/snip

 

 

Bioware doesn't give you the option. In order to have a romance, you have to sleep with the characters. It has been this way since Jade Empire. The only exception is Sebastian, and that's because he took a vow of chastity. So if a player is against pre-marital sex, their only "option" is to not pursue a romance subplot and be forever alone or forsake their values and do it. 

 

 

/snip

 

As far as i recall there are ways to STOP coitus via your dialogue options. You only get the coitus options IF you are romancing so you only get to say no is if you follow a romance. ERGO you can romance a character and not do the rumpy pumpy. So yay you do get a choice.

[LightningPoodle]

I don't see why not. Gay/Lesbian romances in Dragon Age aren't exactly kept hush-hush. And there is no lore to say otherwise. I think the main reason why we haven't seen any yet is probably (and I know I'm probably wrong so don't hate me) because BioWare don't want to move to quickly. I know right from the get go, you could have gay romances if that is what you wanted, and that is a huge step and I'm all for that but that can, and will, cause chaos within a large part of the player base and that can be considered bad press. It has gradually grown with the gay/lesbian content in both DA and ME but I think it's still getting to the point where it is 'safe' to do anything more at the moment. But who knows, perhaps this is the game where we can see some of that stuff. It's the same thing with adverts in real life at the moment. A couple of years ago, you wouldn't not see a black person with a white partner and vice-versa. Now, adverts are doing it a lot more. We are moving into that point in time where more people are excepting of others and the ones who aren't are hiding under rocks. It is a good time to live. - Except for the lack of jobs... that needs to change.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As far as i recall there are ways to STOP coitus via your dialogue options. You only get the coitus options IF you are romancing so you only get to say no is if you follow a romance. ERGO you can romance a character and not do the rumpy pumpy. So yay you do get a choice.

Please point out the romances that do this. I sincerely want to know since I couldn't find them. Or are you talking about in Inquisition?

[Statare]

Even if there is only heterosexual marriage, i.e. the joining of two hereditary lines and the exchange of property, could there not be non-institutional but cultural/regional/ceremonial rituals that are symbolic? In Europe pre-institutionalization of marriage as a strictly religious affair that any man and woman could go through (provided they paid the tithe), communities did perform their own unofficial ceremonies, and one of the problems that led to the institutionalization of marriage in Europe was that men would up and leave from these unofficial unions because they could not pay for the children or just decided to leave, and there was no way to "tie" those men down, so to speak, because the union was only a communal ritual and not a legal, state sanctioned and binding act with legal repercussions. 

 

Anway. Point being. If Thedas is supposedly more accepting of homosexuality, could there not be regional, communal, popularly derived "unions" that are less contract and more symbolic gesture? I know of a few of these that existed in my own culture, but my culture is not European so I guess that is not valid for this discussion, because apparently Thedas Must Be Analogous to Europe. But I find it weird that such symbolic rituals would not exist, especially since humans in our world were/are very big fans on significant ritual acts that are only meaningful symbolically.

[Ryzaki]

As far as i recall there are ways to STOP coitus via your dialogue options. You only get the coitus options IF you are romancing so you only get to say no is if you follow a romance. ERGO you can romance a character and not do the rumpy pumpy. So yay you do get a choice.

 

In many cases rejecting sex is seen as rejecting the romance and ends it.

[Br3admax]

In many cases rejecting sex is seen as rejecting the romance and ends it.

In a world without cultural reasons to object, I can see why. 

[Yermogi]

True... but there'll be a fourth installation, we're sure :-)

I don't have the link to prove this or anything, but I'm fairly certain some dev said they plan to have at least 5 games in the Dragon Age series.

[Gothfather]

Please point out the romances that do this. I sincerely want to know since I couldn't find them. Or are you talking about in Inquisition?

I didn't fine Isabela or Merrill romantically interesting, Isabela was too "loose" for my tastes and merrill was too "innocent" for my tastes so i have no experience pursuing their romances. I used them a lot in my party as i loved their characters just not intrested in romancing either which is just a subjective point of view. BUT Morrigan and leliana both had options.

 

Morrigan only invites you to bed if you start "romancing" her and as I recall, You can be rude by saying get an other blanket you can say sure or you can politely turn her down. She'll only bring it up again re the dark ritual.

 

I recall you can also do the same with leliana. I just don't remember it as well because I found the get an extra blanket option funny when i read it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I didn't fine Isabela or Merrill romantically interesting, Isabela was too lose for my tastes and merrill was too innocent for my tastes so i have no experience pursuing their romances. I used them a lot in my party as i loved their characters just not intrested in romancing either which is just a subjective point of view. BUT Morrigan and leliana both had options.

 

Morrigan only invites you to bed if you start "romancing" her and as I recall, You can be rude by saying get an other blanket you can say sure or you can politely turn her down. She'll only bring it up again re the dark ritual.

 

I recall you can also do the same with leliana. I just don't remember it as well because I found the get an extra blanket option funny when i read it.

But both of those choices resulted in the romance being ended rather than keep going. 

[Gothfather]

In many cases rejecting sex is seen as rejecting the romance and ends it.

 

That still doesn't mean you could not pursue a relationship and choose not to have sex. You can still hold to you own earthly value system. If this is athe argument used then its a case of I don't want the concequences of my choices to be negative and all I can say is pffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttt.

 

There is ZERO cultural or religious stigma to premarital sex in Thedas ERGO the writers do not write their character to behave that way. You CAN play your own character thus so you are NOT forced to have sex. You are also not forced to say No to a romance because if you start one that is you agreeing to shag, you can say yes lets start getting to know each other romantically but when your love intrest wants to have sex you have the OPTION to say yes or no. And each have ther own set of concequences.

 

Its a lie that you don't have choice. The truth is people just don't LIKE concequences. The same was true in SWTOR people didn't like that some of the romance options were not fairy tale endings but rather toxic relationships.

 

To hell with the mantra "I want choice! but i only want concequences of my choices to be ones i like."

[Xilizhra]

That still doesn't mean you could not pursue a relationship and choose not to have sex. You can still hold to you own earthly value system. If this is athe argument used then its a case of I don't want the concequences of my choices to be negative and all I can say is pffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttt.

 

There is ZERO cultural or religious stigma to premarital sex in Thedas ERGO the writers do not write their character to behave that way. You CAN play your own character thus so you are NOT forced to have sex. You are also not forced to say No to a romance because if you start one that is you agreeing to shag, you can say yes lets start getting to know each other romantically but when your love intrest wants to have sex you have the OPTION to say yes or no. And each have ther own set of concequences.

 

Its a lie that you don't have choice. The truth is people just don't LIKE concequences. The same was true in SWTOR people didn't like that some of the romance options were not fairy tale endings but rather toxic relationships.

 

To hell with the mantra "I want choice! but i only want concequences of my choices to be ones i like."

Which one in TOR? Aside from Jaesa, and since you have to be evil as balls to romance her, I doubt anyone cared about toxicity there.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Which one in TOR? Aside from Jaesa, and since you have to be evil as balls to romance her, I doubt anyone cared about toxicity there.

Balls aren't evil.

[Xilizhra]

Balls aren't evil.

I'm sincerely thankful you've never been given reason to think so.

[Ryzaki]

That still doesn't mean you could not pursue a relationship and choose not to have sex. You can still hold to you own earthly value system. If this is athe argument used then its a case of I don't want the concequences of my choices to be negative and all I can say is pffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttt.

 

There is ZERO cultural or religious stigma to premarital sex in Thedas ERGO the writers do not write their character to behave that way. You CAN play your own character thus so you are NOT forced to have sex. You are also not forced to say No to a romance because if you start one that is you agreeing to shag, you can say yes lets start getting to know each other romantically but when your love intrest wants to have sex you have the OPTION to say yes or no. And each have ther own set of concequences.

 

Its a lie that you don't have choice. The truth is people just don't LIKE concequences. The same was true in SWTOR people didn't like that some of the romance options were not fairy tale endings but rather toxic relationships.

 

To hell with the mantra "I want choice! but i only want concequences of my choices to be ones i like."

 

Except you're often not even given a chance to expand on why you don't want sex. It's treated like a rejection of them as a whole instead of just the physical side. If the PC could explain they were simply rejecting sex and not the NPC you'd have a point. As it is that's not what occurs. It's not "I don't want to have sex but I still want to have a relationship" "I'm not down with that sorry." that would be a consequence and would acknowledge both the players and npcs choice. Instead it's just a flat rejection.

 

Also um...what about SWTOR? Most of the facepalms in the relationships came from both sides. And SWTOR isn't a special snowflake in this regard either. A lot of BW games have "huh" relationships.

 

Yeah where are you getting this from? Again even when you do reject sex with a companion you're often not given the option to expand upon why. (The times you do are often the times the romances don't automatically end. Odd how that works.)

 

So not sure what your rage fest is about.

[A Clever Name]

That still doesn't mean you could not pursue a relationship and choose not to have sex. You can still hold to you own earthly value system. If this is athe argument used then its a case of I don't want the concequences of my choices to be negative and all I can say is pffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttt.

 

There is ZERO cultural or religious stigma to premarital sex in Thedas ERGO the writers do not write their character to behave that way. You CAN play your own character thus so you are NOT forced to have sex. You are also not forced to say No to a romance because if you start one that is you agreeing to shag, you can say yes lets start getting to know each other romantically but when your love intrest wants to have sex you have the OPTION to say yes or no. And each have ther own set of concequences.

 

Its a lie that you don't have choice. The truth is people just don't LIKE concequences. The same was true in SWTOR people didn't like that some of the romance options were not fairy tale endings but rather toxic relationships.

 

To hell with the mantra "I want choice! but i only want concequences of my choices to be ones i like."

...Okay, but what about DAII, wherein you literally could not romance anyone and carry that through to the end of the game without jumping into bed with them?  The only LI that didn't have this was Sebastian, and that's because chaste marriage - the option is not given to your lady Hawke to have sex with him.  So in that context, yes, players were deprived of a choice.  One that was evidently given with no consequence (or very little) in DA:O, as you mentioned.  DAII made the mistake of tying romances to sex, which is why there is a lack of variety in how they can play out.  So by that alone, yes, there were less options and choices.  And if I recall correctly, the only way you can say no to the LIs in DAII is to break off the romance, which is not the same as saying "I don't want to have sex with you."  Not in the slightest.  One denies a relationship, the other denies a bodily action.  I don't see anyone on this thread advocating for happy endings - just choices.  It isn't that people dislike consequences - although this may be true for some - so much as it is that people dislike never being given the option to make choices that they believe their PC would.

[Gothfather]

Which one in TOR? Aside from Jaesa, and since you have to be evil as balls to romance her, I doubt anyone cared about toxicity there.

I'm not here to debate which romances in SW:TOR would be classed as toxic or not. I only pointed out many people complained that some of the romances did not end in a manner consistnt to their hearts desire. I also recall a dev using the term toxic to decribe some of the romances as well.

[Xilizhra]

I'm not here to debate which romances in SW:TOR would be classed as toxic or not. I only pointed out many people complained that some of the romances did not end in a manner consistnt to their hearts desire. I also recall a dev using the term toxic to decribe some of the romances as well.

I wasn't planning on debating, I was only curious as to which romances you spoke of.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm sincerely thankful you've never been given reason to think so.

I didn't just get a taste of my own foot, did I?

[Gothfather]

Except you're often not even given a chance to expand on why you don't want sex. It's treated like a rejection of them as a whole instead of just the physical side. If the PC could explain they were simply rejecting sex and not the PC you'd have a point. As it is that's not what occurs. It's not "I don't want to have sex but I still want to have a relationship" "I'm not down with that sorry." that would be a consequence and would acknowledge both the players and npcs choice. Instead it's just a flat rejection.

 

Also um...what about SWTOR? Most of the facepalms in the relationships came from both sides. And SWTOR isn't a special snowflake in this regard either. A lot of BW games have "huh" relationships.

 

Yeah where are you getting this from? Again even when you do reject sex with a companion you're often not given the option to expand upon why. (The times you do are often the times the romances don't automatically end. Odd how that works.)

 

So not sure what your rage fest is about.

Right because it must be a rage fest that i disagree.

 

No one gets to micromanage their relationship. i don't get to explain Why I said yes or give paramaters of what yes means. And you don't with no. Its not a dating sim. Romances are a MINOR aspect of the game. The romances in the game reflect the values of Thedas and the values that the MAJORITY of Canadians have. Don't like it? Then make the choice is it something you can accept and disagree with or is it something that crosses the line and you wont play.

 

In japan its socially acceptable for game to be made where the player is the rapist or the person being raped. I choose NOT to buy those games.(here only to illustrate as an example ofgames that I refuse to buy, It is not here to draw a moral equivalency to anyones position. I used an extreme so I don't get into a debate over why I wont buy x game.)  In Skyrim I can not ask a non companion NPC to shack up with me, yet i can ask them to marry me and live with me. This does not represent my values but I still bought skyrim when I knew this was going to be there.

 

You don't get to micromanage your Romances in DA:I from what we have been told, you only get to explore these relationship along the lines that has been written by bioware and its story THEY wanted to tell.You DONT get to pick the moral compass of ANY companion on ANY ISSUE, why should you be able do pick the moral compass of your love intrest with regards to sex? Don't like it? Well unless you are a Canadian that can somehow change the moral landscape of Canadians before the next Bioware game you are out of luck because BioWare games represent MOST Candians' values.

 

[edit] /snipped off a sentence fragment.

[Former_Fiend]

I hate how people associate marriage as being the end goal for all relationships. 

 

 

Thank you.

[Ryzaki]

Right because it must be a rage fest that i disagree.

 

No one gets to micromanage their relationship. i don't get to explain Why I said yes or give paramaters of what yes means. And you don't with no. Its not a dating sim. Romances are a MINOR aspect of the game. The romances in the game reflect the values of Thedas and the values that the MAJORITY of Canadians have. Don't like it? Then make the choice is it something you can accept and disagree with or is it something that crosses the line and you wont play.

 

In japan its socially acceptable for game to be made where the player is the rapist or the person being raped. I choose NOT to buy those games.(here only to illustrate as an example ofgames that I refuse to buy, It is not here to draw a moral equivalency to anyones position. I used an extreme so I don't get into a debate over why I wont buy x game.)  In Skyrim I can not also ask a non companion NPC to shack up with me, yet i can ask them to marry me and live with me. This does not represent my values but I still bought skyrim when I knew this was going to be there.

 

You don't get to micromanage your Romances in DA:I from what we have been told, you only get to explore these relationship along the line that has be writen by bioware and the story THEY wanted to tell.You DONT get to pick the moral compass of ANY companion on ANY ISSUE, why should you be able do pick the moral compass of your love intrest with regards to sex? Don't like it? Well unless you are a Canadian that can somehow change the moral landscape of Canadians before the next Bioware game you are out of luck because BioWare games represent MOST Candians' values.

 

[edit] /snipped off a sentence fragment.

 

It's not what you say it's how you say it. And your constant need to type in caps is flavoring it.

 

So...wanting a choice to say "I'd rather not have sex but I still want a relationship" is micromanaging now? Also you're using the dating sim argument? I've played dating sims (and enjoyed them). Even with this BW games wouldn't remotely come close.

 

As for the values of Thedas and the majority of Canadians uh...relevance? All I would like is the choice for the PC to be able to say they want a relationship but not sex. I'm not demanding the NPC cater to this. If they say no that's fine! I just rather the PC not be forced into a "I reject you completely" line like they currently are for those who would rather not play a character who feels sex is necessary for a romance. (Marriage or not). 

 

I'm completely baffled by where you're coming from with this. This is feedback. Someone's asking for this in future games. Where do you come off demanding they not ask for this because the devs haven't put it in previous games? And then trying to act like they're asking for the game to cater to their whims? If the devs don't want to put this in that's fair enough it's their game and their world. But I can certainly ask in a respectful manner and if it bothers you you can ignore it. Someone's request isn't hurting you.

 

And how on earth is asking for an additional choice to flesh out your player character (whether as someone who wants to wait for sex after marriage or as someone who rather not have sex at all) micromanaging the romance? If the devs don't think the NPC would go for this...just have them reject it. I'm by no means demanding they romance the player anyway. Just a "No that's not for me." and that's it. How on earth is that picking their moral compass in regards to the LI? I have never suggested the LI bend to the players whims. Merely that the player be able to explain and not have a flat out rejection (on their part). If after the explanation the NPC still goes no? That's fine. It was acknowledged that my PC was the type to do X and the NPC wasn't.

 

Edit: Wait we're not in the feedback forum silly me. Still feedback tho