20 réponses à ce sujet

[revan017]

So I'm trying to go through the Keep and I was wondering if any of you have created the most "paragon" possible world state. I'm the kind of player who just likes to "win". I don't really care much for playing renegade. Didn't like it in KOTOR. Didn't like it in ME. Definitely don't like it in DA. Like seriously, I was playing ME, trying to role play as a renegade but when I had to kill the rachni queen in ME1, I just started to cry because I felt there was no justifiable reason to kill her. Nor is there a justifiable reason not to save the people in the Feros colony.

 

My canon playthrough of the ME series is the best. I picked up the trilogy last year, and every time there was a decision I would check the ME Wiki to see what the correct answer was. Like things such as you have to save the rachni queen to get war assets or you have to tell Kelly to put on a disguise in order for her not to die or you have to do certain things to get the Virmire survivor (always Kaidan) to back down during the confrontation in ME3. SAME THING WITH DRAGON AGE. I picked up Origins and 2 last year and I was always checking the Wiki even during conversations to make sure all my responses would give approval.

 

I just want a perfect playthrough where everyone's happy.

 

Here comes the Keep and I'm not sure. Should I give the boy gold or should I give him a sword? Should I have stolen food for the prisoner or should I have bought it? What is the correct answer? Aaargh, I just want the perfect world state!

[sky_captain]

As far as the prisoner is concerned given that there is an extremely high chance that both he and the guard are dead I don't think you should sweat it either way.  Give the kid the gold, the sword won't do him much good as he won't be strong enough to wield it for several years, and he and his sister need to eat in the mean time.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Doesn't it take out soemthing of the appeal of a choice if you check the wiki for everything? Soemtime you just gotta go with your gut man.

 

Anyways, regarding the Keep. Pretty much all the scenarios where you let someone live, would be the "paragon". Unless you are talking about the Act quest (Arishok, Gallows Annulment, etc) in which case, the game doesn't really melt down to clear cut renegade and paragon choices.

[revan017]

Doesn't it take out soemthing of the appeal of a choice if you check the wiki for everything? Soemtime you just gotta go with your gut man.

 

It's a curse, my friend. On my first playthrough, I spent more than an hour reading forums posts on whether Bhelen or Harrowmont was the better choice for king. I settled that Harrowmont, though conservative, is the paragon choice.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well you wanted prefect pt where everyone is happy and you picked Harrowmont?

There is no rly paragon/renegade in da (but you could play as hero ,anti-hero or even villain at least in dao).

[Zana]

Either sword or gold will be fine.  Based on DAO's epilogue, his sister will marry Teagan.  Since he was something of an ambassador to Orlais, you might run into either the boy or his sister during Inquisition.  Epilogue also said that if boy got the sword, he became an adventurer himself.  Since DAI takes place over a decade after DAO, he will be old enough to actually join Inquisition at this point, so might be a possible asset.

 

I doubt there is a correct and incorrect answer.  If you really want to know, you'll have to wait until Inquisition launches and wait for spoilers as to which choice triggers and how.

 

EDIT: Well, Harrowmont IS the Paragon choice.  It's just a rare exception where Paragon choice is not the best in long term, at least for the dwarves.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Dragon Age is too complex to fall under the Paragon/renegade system like KOTOR or ME.

 

Would killing the Arishok be a paragon choice? Would letting Isabela be taken as a slave be a paragon choice if it means less bloodshed?

 

What about Loghain? Letting a man who wants to genuinely redeem himself is a paragon choice. Then again he sold elves and poisoned Eamon at the same time.

 

What about Bhelen and Harrowment? Bhelen might be the better candidate but he killed his brother and is willing to kill Harrowment to get the throne. Why would a paragon support a man who loves committing renegade actions.

 

What about the Dark Ritual? Doing the dark ritual and everyone living seems like a a paragon choice. At the same time, Morrigan is being very secretive about what she intends to do with the baby. For all we know, she might use the baby for her own personal gain and cause havoc in Thedas in 30 years time. Also Flemeth warns you that Morrigan is hiding something and making the Warden "dance to her tune" so we don't know the whole story.

[LightningPoodle]

It's a curse, my friend. On my first playthrough, I spent more than an hour reading forums posts on whether Bhelen or Harrowmont was the better choice for king. I settled that Harrowmont, though conservative, is the paragon choice.

 

The paragon choice but Bhelen is the better of two evils. Harrowmont is stuck in his ways. If people like him continued to rule, there would be no change and the darkspawn would invade Orzammar. Doesn't Bhelen also do something to help the casteless?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Harrowmont isn't rly paragon choice do i have to point he is supporter of extremely abusive system Harrowmont isn't by any mean good guy.

Pretty much it would be like saying that paragon choice would be chose between lawful evil and chaotic evil.

[TheTurtle]

Paragon and Renegade are more of a Mass Effect thing DA usually works in shades of gray. For example choosing Harrowmont may seem like the good choice, but in reality choosing him destroys Orzammar.

[Jaison1986]

It's a curse, my friend. On my first playthrough, I spent more than an hour reading forums posts on whether Bhelen or Harrowmont was the better choice for king. I settled that Harrowmont, though conservative, is the paragon choice.

 

No offense man, but this is the breaking point were it stops being paragon and starts getting dumb. I don't believe in fully paragon games. Sometimes sacrifices need to be made for the greater good. In doubt just go paragade. Sometimes you need to crack a few skulls to change things for the better.

[Gothfather]

The funny thing about Harrowmont and Bhelen is that its very possible for YOU to be the bad guy in the Dwarf Noble Origin.

 

I played that origin first (but did not do teh whole playthrough). There are choices where you can be the one conspiring against him trying to kill him. So when i played that origin first and took that path, I didn't look at Bhelen as this evil guy. In fact there is choice to do the noble thing and admit your crime, which I did, The idea was that I'd become a Grey Warden to redeem myself, but i never played very far into it.

 

So in Some games Bhelen IS the paragon choice becaue he isn't the bad brother YOU are. My original origin playthrough has always "tainted" my view of the stories of him killing his brother. In my mind it was self defence because in my Dwarf noble origin it he was defending himself.

 

[Edit] I think in many places in DA there are no paragon choices or renegade choice, which is not to say there aren't any clear cut cases, only that the idea of this side is good and that side is bad are not written into the game as such. Take the mage templar war.

 

1) Fact: mages are oppressed in some circles.

 

2) Fact: Mages do become abominations and do use blood magic

 

3) Fact: Knight-Commander Meredith was a reactionary and paranoid, willing to kill innocents

 

4) Fact: Meredith isn't imagining the coruption of mages in the region. You run into Soooooooooooo many blood mages I wonder why?

 

5) Fact: First Enchanter Orsino IS a blood mage.

 

6) Fact: Mages are not imagining the fact that so many of them are made tranquil for trivial reasons

 

In Kirkwall the Mage leadership and the Templar leadership were BOTH bad guys. So what is the Paragon choice?

[JudgeOverdose]

I think the major point is that the decisions you make are not so black-and-white; there is no pleasing everyone, and the 'best outcome' is a matter of perspective. In that regard, you must decide what you think is best for Thedas.

 

Ex: You might think that Loghain is evil and deserves to die. Without context, it certainly looks that way, but when is killing someone the paragon choice? The man is a hero (of River Dane), and he fights to maintain Ferelden independence, but he makes a lot of ruthless decisions to get there. When you understand him and his background on a deeper level (by reading the first two novels), the picture becomes more clear, and the decision to conscript him or execute him gets a bit more muddled.

 

If everything were an easy "good" vs "bad" decision, then it'd be a lot easier to set the perfect world. Sometimes, though, you have to make tough decisions like letting everyone live or keeping people safe, and either choice comes with a consequence that might leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.

 

I always try to make the decision that has the outcome that I'm most happy with; very few of DAO's choices have perfect endings.

[veeia]

Interesting that you went with Harrowmount, as I think there is an argument he's the most *paragon* choice, but that does seem to conflict with your goal of "Just wanting everyone happy."

 

I wish more decisions in games went along those lines....more (but def not all )"renegade/pragmatic/whatever" choices leading to outcomes where more people are happy/the people you care about are happy.

 

(I also think Loghain's execution is the same, as unless you're playing a super lawful paragon, it's more "paragon" to spare him even though killing him makes more people happy. For some reason people don't seem to bring that up as much, or I'm alone in thinking that. *shrug*)

[Sully13]

Paragon huh? Yeahp well first you need to be a Dwarf...  

[ICevoL]

Paragon huh? Yeahp well first you need to be a Dwarf...  

 

LOL! 

 

I love that non-Dwarven Troll-Warden can say "I want my face on one of those big statues"   

[Sully13]

And i want my name on a plaque on the Door of the Dwarven Chantery. 

[New Kid]

I just came here to say: BOO! I hate that system.

[Sully13]

I just came from the city to say: CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES.

Fixed that for you.

But i do agree it dose require a lot of refineing.

[garrusfan1]

I am the same way. I couldn't kill the rachni queen.

 

 

But for this I would recoomend the following for the most paragon playthrough using the keep.

 

 

Orzammar- Bhelen is king. He is an a** but he makes orzammar better and despite harrowment being nicer personally the castless get screwed if he is king. Telling rucks mother he died is the nicer thing,helping orta find her familys past,dagna joins the circle,legion of the dead becomes a house,you support carridan when that choice comes.

 

Denerim-Helping deal with the mercs,basically most of it is obvious which is good. Except killing marjoline she deserves to die.

 

Landsmeet-Either anora and alistar rule together or the warden and alistar do.

 

Elves-Most of it is obvious which is good.

 

Circle-Once again most is obvious.

 

Ashes-obvious

 

Red cliffe-Obvious

 

Wardens keep-I think avernus continuing his research ethically is the paragon choice but some will say he deserves to die.

 

Eluvian-Not killing morrigan

 

Awakening-This is where it gets tricky. Should you kill the architect or not.

 

and your companions are obvious.

 

In da2

 

Companions are obvious

 

Act one if you have played the game and done side missions they are obvious. except the exotic wonder of the east. Not sure which is paragon choice.

 

Act two

 

Not helping the zealots is the paragon choice. they are trying to start a war.