136 réponses à ce sujet

[finc.loki]

Malcroix wrote...

finc.loki wrote...
About the adept being nerfed, if that is the case it would suck.

I suspect though that it only feels that way in the first part of the game ( I take it you never really played far into the game with adept).
See once the cooldowns drop to 3-6 seconds for most powers it would change, I'd imagine.

Even with a 6 sec recharge, you're still stuck with 6 seconds of doing NOTHING except shooting your pistol. And this is a fast-paced game, so 6 seconds is a long time. 3 seconds - only very few powers show such recharge rate (judging from the character menu). In ME1, my Vanguard was spamming powers every second, then Adrenaline Burst and another volley. Now THAT's biotics. So far in ME2, biotics suck so much I often don't even bother with them and just use the pistol/SMG. Even if it means relying on teammates when I used to make all the kills. Yeah, it's that bad.

Combine that with the pull/push ability (pull an enemy and a few sec later just send a throw for an instant kill) and too me it would seem that you can use powers much faster than ME1 and more often.
Singularity on rank 1 is small, but really an evolved singularity could be huge for all we know.
Just check the Adept walkthrough again, unless they nerfed it since this video was made I think is just a matter of it going quicker a little later on in the game, once the cooldowns shorten)
:

I'm on levels 2-3 with almost all of my powers... hope thing will improve soon, otherwise I'll have to write Adept off...

I still don't understand the "can't use biotic power on shielded/armored enemies", that doesn't seem right?
It would negate every single thing an adept is.
I can understand warp is useless on an enemy with shields still active, but damn you should be able to use pull and push.
I would like clarification on that part, I know you never mentioned it but the OP did.

Oh yeah, that crap.

It's true, you CAN'T use biotics on shielded enemies. And you know, almost all enemies so far are shielded (well, except mutant dogs & such ;-) ) So you have to bring down the shields first. Which, as an Adept, you basically CAN NOT do with any decency - the Heavy pistol sucks vs. shields, the SMG is AWFUL at long distances, and you don't have access to Disruptor ammo. Yep, there's NO synergy in this class at all.

Singularity is the only biotic power which can at least be launched at shielded enemies; but so far it sucks so much it's pointless anyway.

The more I play this game, the more I'm getting the idea that ME1 is the SEQUEL, and this one is the first draft. So many good ideas flushed down the drain... hell, there's no more inventory at all, I'm level 8 and STILL USING THE PISTOL I FOUND AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, I've actually found only THREE weapons so far and two of them can't be used by an Adept... To even get a possibility of upgrades I have to do a big quest and colled huge amounts of some resources... not money... In short, I'm feeling kinda like Super Mario, with only one way to go and only one thing to do... The game is still easy on normal, but I'm not getting a feeling of win, rather that I'm winning because the game was designed easy (thermoclips every step of the way? even, I think, RESPAWNING thermoclips, I kid you not! and this in a BioWare RPG!).

Of course, I'm still playing because the visuals and the cinematography are stunning, the storyline is gripping, and the characters excellently done. But guys, this isn't an interactive movie, this is supposed to be an RPG, right?

Man, that is really disheartning to hear.
Adept is quite the opposite of what the name implies.

Why do they feel the need to do things like that, it is a single player game, would it really be so game breaking letting the player actually have FUN?
Lets remove anything adept as soon as a shielded enemy arrives, which at least half of them are, sigh, pure BS Bioware.
Wonder what went through their minds designing the adept like that, they don't even have any good way to reducing the shields, the pistols are only good agains armor , which an adept can destroy in a milli second with warp, redundancy anyone?

Man this is actually pissing me off real bad.

Why the hell would they make it as soon as a shielded enemy appears your no longer an adept but a useless pistol jockey?
What happened to the "adept is the only class to kill without weapons".

What a blunder Bioware.
All other classes can deal with all enemies cause of ammo powers or just plain powers.

Look at the soldier this time.
It has TWO unique powers and a completely unique weapon (LMG), all other classes has one.
Lets not forget all the ammo powers.

They really should have given the adept disruptor ammo, or at least still use their abilities against shielded enemies albeit weaker.
To completely remove what the class is all about whenever an enemy type that makes up for at least half the games enemies appear, is mindboggingly odd.

This seems to be one area the ball was dropped Christina Norman?

[CerebraLArsenaL]

InfiGuard: Special ability: Cloaked Charge "Kill em, before they know what hit em"

[CerebraLArsenaL]

Btw, Ive heard bonus talents do not work the same as the original, so how are they acquired?

[Northern Sun]

I'm torn between the soldier and the sentinel. I like how they are both well-suited to any task, though I worry about the sentinel's effectiveness at range. Although if I can slap an assault rifle on the sentinel early I'll go that way easily. Iif anyone knows when, where, and how you put the assault rifle bonus on other classes(as well as any consequences like giving up a current weapon) please PM me.

[SurfaceBeneath]

I'm floating between Infiltrator and Sentinel for my first playthrough.

[Shelondias]

I prefer to charge in, rip out your heart and show you my boomstick.

FTL Vanguard FTW

[Wonderllama4]

Soldier first then Adept. going for two very different styles

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I'm torn between Adept and Vanguard. I like the concept of Adepts more but a lot of their powers seem kind of...samey. Pull and singularity? Throw and shockwave? Vanguards get that awesome charge power so -shrug-.

[psychodude310]

Im going vanguard because im pretty reckless

[Tylyanhar]

Sentinel. I like it's versatility.

[IntrepidProdigy]

Malcroix wrote...

From someone who's already playing the game... *disclaimer* If you don't want to read a few details about the mechanics (as if the community doesn't already know them) feel free to skip. Also, don't go "we already know dat stuff!" cause I haven't got time to sit on the forums and read through all the speculations, I just get the game and play it.

1. Adept is nerfed, as well as other biotic/tech classes. Why? Let's see:

1.1. All powers share the same cooldown. I.e.: You use singularity - BAM you CAN"T use ANY OTHER BIOTIC OR TECH POWER until Singularity is back on line. The cooldowns are shorter, but still - you CAN'T spam powers. Oh, and Adrenaline Rush is gone for Vanguards, so no instantaneous cooldown reset. This means, even as an Adept, you're forced to rely on your weapon during the cooldown. And the Adept has only the Pistol/Submachine gun, which have, of course, been nerfed from the ME1 Pistol;

1.2. Biotics were nerfed, at a glance. Singularity is pathetic now, with a puny radius (1 meter!) that can only catch 1 enemy, and that's if you're good with aiming. You can improve it with leveling, but not by much, if numbers are to be believed (i'm rather low level right now, due to exploring other options).

2. There are NO BONUS TALENTS at the outset. So you can't play Sniper Vanguard or AR Adept from the get-go, nor any of the other combos. SOME bonus talents are "researchable" from members( http://i36.photobuck...e2586/bonus.jpg ) but I don't know yet what kind of bonus talents are possible, or how long in terms of game progression will the research take.

3. Anyone can wear any armor, but each class can ONLY use weapons it's "trained" for. You can't even equip other weapons, from what I've seen, so that's confirmed.

4. The RPG system as a whole has been extremely streamlined even compared to the spartan ME1. There are very few options, much less skills than in ME1. E.g. Armor, Medicine and Sabotage are gone, AFAIK, and all weapon skills (instead some classes have "ammo types" to be trained). Squad members are particularly shortchanged - only 4 skills each, with 1 being unlocked only after you "gain their loyalty". This basically makes them a 1-trick pony.

5. "Thermoclips". They suck. A lot. Why would ANYONE (except maybe a Sniper fan) want a transfer from the limitless ammo of ME1 to the nonsensical limited clips of ME2 is beyond me, story-wise. The need for constant reload is at least as frustrating as the cooldown issue, much more so if you count the upgrades which nullified cooldown in ME1. And it's not just the clips - we've got an AMMO CAP too: e.g. can't carry more than 60 shots for the Heavy pistol, or 200-something for the SMG. This amount is good for one, maybe two decent firefights. After which you're forced to rely on clips falling out of dead enemies, like in Wolfenstein or Doom (yeah, the old ones). And here I was thinking that Mass Effect was INTELLIGENT sci-fi! Now it plays like any other dumb FPS.

What this tells me so far:

a) Much less fun playing a power-heavy class, like Adept (or, I suppose, techies and tech/biotics). It doesn't matter that you have 5 powers - you can only use ONE at a time, so you might as well have only 2 - 3.

Having access to good weapons becomes even more important, because you'll have to constantly use weapons inbetween using powers, and you CAN'T use weapons disallowed for your class. Ammo skills are good to have, as they give you more options with your weapons. Thermoclips mean you have to make shots count, so more powerful weapons give an advantage here as well.

c) Harder to rely on squad members to pick up the slack - they're even more limited in their options than your main character, and it's basically impossible to "customize" them. This puts more stress on choice of class - if your character does the same trick as the NPC you like, there's little point in taking them along on missions (this was somewhat true for ME1 as well, but to a much lesser extent, as in ME1 both the hero and the NPCs were much richer and more flexible in terms of abilities).

Conclusions:

I started playing as an Adept (imported from ME1), and found it much less fun than in the first game. The need to constantly use the pistol (which is much weaker than its ME1 predecessor) combined with the new thermoclip routine (ammo shortages, manual reload, etc.) instead of ruling with bad-arse biotics makes it a rather frustrating experience.

I restarted with a Vanguard, which seems more promising so far, as it has a combination of biotic powers and interesting weapons (Shotgun + SMG + HP), plus a new power called "Charge" which is indeed quite awesome, like you've all seen in the vid. It's much more visceral and fast-pace, compared to pecking at enemies with a pistol from afar while you wait for your biotics to cool down as an Adept.

It's disappointing because I was hoping to continue my Adept career from ME1. So far though, it's quite tedious; although I guess I'll just grind on to see if there's maybe some light at the end of the tunnel (i.e. maybe the top-tier abilities will make Adept more enjoyable to play).

crimzontearz wrote...

Vanguard with Advanced Training in Sniper Rifles.....

why?

because my Shepard in ME1 was a Vanguard, Because Charge is an AWESOME unique skill, Because with a sniper Rifle a Vanguard ios lethal both at long AND close range 

Vanguards are not what they've been. Very few biotics, NO Adrenaline Rush, and again, I'm not sure there will be an opportunity to get a bonus weapon talent ( so you might be stuck with shotgun). OTOH, the Charge is cool.

Over & out.

Well now, that is over-exceedingly disappointing. I mean I knew that the adept's style would be different this time around, but I didn't know that biotics would be COMPLETELY useless against enemies with shields... looks like I'll be sticking to the redundancy of the new vanguard's play style when I decide to import him.

[purple_zebralemon]

My first shep wil be vangaurd for sure! Charging into frozen enemies making them shatter... sounds like win to me.





The real problem I am having is: chossing between soldier, sentinel or infiltraitor on my second.. So hard!

Modifié par purple_zebralemon, 25 janvier 2010 - 05:17 .

[Lost Cipher]

Always Soldier first, fun when things go boom. After seeing the class videos though, I know I will at least be playing through the game at least as a each class one time.

[ArcanistLibram]

Adept. That's the playthrough that doesn't have an ME1 romance attached to it and I'd like to maintain continuity the first time I play ME2.

[Cypher0020]

Vanguard because I simply fell in love with the class after I got the AR talent.....

[GmanFresh]

me like shooty me like biotics

[Malcroix]

finc.loki wrote...


Man, that is really disheartning to hear.
Adept is quite the opposite of what the name implies.

Well, maybe higher levels will provide smoother gameplay... but I'm not counting on that much, because:

1) Higher levels of biotic powers basically do NOT improve cooldown times;

2) Adept specialisation only gives about 20% reduction in recharge (except for the last, 4th level, which is stupidly secretive about its numerical benefits);

3) You can STILL only use ONE power at a time, and while it cools down, you CANNOT use other powers;

4) The area of effect has been significantly reduced, so far I'm only affecting 1 enemy at a time, and that's if I aim very precisely and the enemy doesn't jump out of the way (which is v. common for singularity, because it is v. slow at reaching its target destination - like a v. slow fireball).

Why do they feel the need to do things like that, it is a single player game, would it really be so game breaking letting the player actually have FUN?
Lets remove anything adept as soon as a shielded enemy arrives, which at least half of them are, sigh, pure BS Bioware.
Wonder what went through their minds designing the adept like that, they don't even have any good way to reducing the shields, the pistols are only good agains armor , which an adept can destroy in a milli second with warp, redundancy anyone?

Well, my guess is that they were after a rock/paper/scissors approach, forcing the player to rely on squadmates. Of course, it's pointless when you have classes like Soldier who can defeat any defense by themselves.

What happened to the "adept is the only class to kill without weapons".

So far, and I'm around level 8, it's a load of bull. I have not yet killed a single enemy without weapons. The only power that actually does damage is Warp, and it's pitiful (although kinda good vs. armor). These neat pull-throw combos - you can't do them due to the cooldown times and the fast-paced action, if you disable an enemy with pull he''ll likely be dead from your squadmates' gunfire before your powers recharge - and if they can't kill him so fast, it means he's one of the tough enemies and your pull won't affect him in the first place!

Look at the soldier this time.
It has TWO unique powers and a completely unique weapon (LMG), all other classes has one.
Lets not forget all the ammo powers.

Yeah, looking at the sitch, and also the idea that bonus powers are limited to your squadmates' "special" abilities, (so an Adept can't get a weapon skill no matter what), a Soldier looks preferable. Although, then you'll have to always deal with the tedious find ammo/reload routine (not that you're not suffering from it as an adept...).

They really should have given the adept disruptor ammo, or at least still use their abilities against shielded enemies albeit weaker.
To completely remove what the class is all about whenever an enemy type that makes up for at least half the games enemies appear, is mindboggingly odd.

Oh, and did I say they've also removed the Adept's most powerful combo, Stasis/Bastion?

It's not like the Adept even was the strongest class in ME1 (losing out to Vanguard and some of the Soldier/Infiltrator builds). Vanguard, Soldier and Infiltrator are as powerful or even more powerful (comparatively) than their ME1 counterparts, but the Adept's been nerfed even further. What really sucks for me, though, is not the numbers/powergaming thing, but the fact that the Adept is simply NOT FUN TO PLAY anymore.

[Malcroix]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Well now, that is over-exceedingly disappointing. I mean I knew that the adept's style would be different this time around, but I didn't know that biotics would be COMPLETELY useless against enemies with shields... looks like I'll be sticking to the redundancy of the new vanguard's play style when I decide to import him.

Vanguard has some downs as well. Charge is very cool, but it's dependent on the cooldown again, and so far, as I've experienced, you can't charge through solid objects, over chasms, or on long distances. So you'll often find yourself in situations when you have to engage the enemy at range, and all Vanguard skills and weapons are close-combat oriented. Maybe later, when cooldowns get reduced, you will be able to use Charge more tactically, but so far it's available like 1 or 2 times during battle.

What I would recommend (and what I'm actually doing now) is maybe instead of committing many hours of gameplay to one class straight away, play around a little (the first two missions work well) with different classes, to get the "feel" of each. Maybe you'll find Adept is working for you, and Vanguard isn't. It's really hard to decide to start over with a different class when you've already invested a lot of time into one career, that's what I'm saying.

[Arijharn]

Adept, because that was what my main shep was from ME1. That and I like Singularity (especially now that it kills bad guys) and the new Shockwave as well as ze old favs of Throw and Pull etc.

After that, I'm going to go for an Infiltrator and because of two words: Tactical Cloak. This in itself is weird for me because traditionally in games I can't stand the sneaky characters, but tactical cloak was sold on me quite quickly as soon as Christina plugged it.

[RiouHotaru]

Infiltrator, because cloaking is pretty hot, and I always liked it in ME1 (Easily one of the best classes in the game anyway thanks to Immunity Shenanigans) and the Sniper Slowdown mechanic looks to be fun.



I do want to give Vanguard a try, but I fear that everyone who is drooling buckets forgets that Christina herself said Vanguard is /terribly/ risky. It's a high-risk, high-reward class. After all, you might go to Charge a stumbling foe...only to find yourself behind enemy lines and WITHOUT COVER.



Still, the allure of Falcon Punching people and stuff is far too tempting to resist.

[I Vigil I]

Im choosing engineer because I love to manipulate my enemies and the new tech powers look awesome.  I played an engeneer my first time through in the first game so im importing my level 60 to mass effect 2

[DarthReavus]

Adept. It's the playthrough I'm working on now and it's the playthrough where Shepard is staying single and can therefore get jiggy with Miss Lawson. Besides, what's not to love about treating people like ragdolls?

[TheGreenQuaker]

Check the sig. Biotics + Shotty = WIN!

[smudgedhorizon]

I always loved my Vanguard, but they seem to have turned the Vanguard class into some close combat brutal killer and that's never how I played it, so I really don't know.

[SmilingMirror]

Sentinel because you can pop the tech armor over and over again.

Also, a note to the complainers: Use the SMG or your team-mates to take care of shields, or just spam your biotics on one dude until his shields are down. Heck MOST of the enemies don't have shields so you'll just be tossing everyone everywhere.

If you want to solo the game there are only two classes from the get-go that can do it; Sentinel and Soldier. They both have abilities for any type of situation.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 25 janvier 2010 - 11:37 .