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Is Lord Seeker Lambert alive?


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#101
TheKomandorShepard

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I find it funny that there are those who hate mages (because of their magic) when in DA lore all living beings have magic in them.  It is chance that one person may be able to put their magic to use whereas another cannot and likewise the extent (power) that magic manifests in a person.

 

I tend to side with mages, though I may have to do a different playthrough to see the other side.

Not rly magic in da pretty much makes you walking unstable bomb non-mages aren't one peoples in-universe have many good reasons to hate magic as it does a lot more trouble than it does good.



#102
berrieh

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I always imagined he was dead. I suppose he could be elsewise, but I think Lord Seeker Lambert is either dead or controlled somehow; if we do meet him, I doubt he will be himself. 

 

The templars would only have authority to do so if they were acting under the Chantry's name.

 

This is untrue. The Templars were formed outside of the Chantry (this is the premise Lord Seeker Lambert uses to rebel/separate and it seems to fit with historical records we have) and chose to join forces with the Chantry to take control of the Mage situation, under the Chantry's purview. As the Mages have officially rebelled against the Chantry and thus the Templars are no longer needed within the Chantry, I believe the Templars can become an independent organization again. Whether this is allowed as legal or not likely has more to do with individual governments than anything else. I think it's foolhardy and Lambert's being a dick about it, but I do not believe we can prove they have no independent authority since they did exist as an external force at one time. 

 

Justinia let them vote on independence, did she not? And even then, nobody attacked anyone until a dumb templar stabbed a mage who was surrendering peacefully. Then all hell broke loose.

 

No. Justinia let them have a conclave to discuss the situation with the Rite of Tranquility. The mages (some extremists) pushed the idea of discussing independence. Which they had previously been allowed to vote on but not since the college had been suspended and which they'd basically been warned against doing and knew would be seen as treason. Once the discussion began, the more conservative mages were even coerced into continuing and favoring independence (whether they would or wouldn't have at this point is unclear) by rebellious mages pointing out they would already be seen as treasonous just for attending the discussion. 

 

Then, fighting broke out - which I do not condone (Lord Seeker Lambert, though not without skill and a point, is a brute) - and the mages defended themselves, very purposefully not hurting the Templars, but using magic. A (dumb, young) Templar likely didn't *realize* the mage was surrendering (this is how it seems from the point of view it's told) and attacked, out of fear. How often do you think Templars face so many skilled and trained mages? Just one unleashing all his/her power, even without the augmentation of blood magic, can destroy so much - this is not unreasonable fear. Then, that necessarily escalated. 

 

It was Lord Lambert's doing that this situation occurred; I wouldn't blame individual Templars who were likely terrified, with reasonable fear. The extremist mages are not without blame in pushing things too far. Even Rhys agrees on this. 

 

Remember too - while it initially seemed Lambert had faked Rhys's framing, it was made clear to us that he did NOT frame Rhys and had no way of knowing that he wasn't really the murderer. Rhys didn't exactly go to him early, he never produced Cole in time, and the knife that killed Pharamond was planted in his room by Adrian (or whatever her name was). Seeker Lambert is an overzealous dick, but it wasn't 100% his fault. Others are culpable as well. It was the Libertarian's (or at least Adrian's, but she didn't seem to be alone) ambitions that such a thing would occur - maybe not the massacre, but something to compel the more moderate and conservative mages to side with them on the issue of independence. As to Lambert, he seems like a man desperate to regain control the whole novel. He's a villain to be sure, but not an unsympathetic one when you consider what he has seen and what he truly wants (which is not all the mages dead - in fact, he clearly wants to find the murderer and protect the mages in some instances). 


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#103
Xilizhra

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Extremism would be trying to conquer all mundanes, like Tevinter. It is not extremism to try to escape crushing oppression.


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#104
The Baconer

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As the Mages have officially rebelled against the Chantry and thus the Templars are no longer needed within the Chantry, I believe the Templars can become an independent organization again. Whether this is allowed as legal or not likely has more to do with individual governments than anything else. I think it's foolhardy and Lambert's being a dick about it, but I do not believe we can prove they have no independent authority since they did exist as an external force at one time.

 

I think the Templars themselves have proven that they cannot be trusted with independent authority.


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#105
Esteed789

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In relation to the thread title:  I hope so.  Here is a man who has let his fears and passions lead him to extremism.  Adrian is much the same.  I'd very much like the opportunity to publicly execute the both of them, as a firm statement that such extremism, no matter which side it benefits, is no longer what Thedas needs.


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#106
TheKomandorShepard

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I think the Templars themselves have proven that they cannot be trusted with independent authority.

Current templars that were created under chantry authority and teachings yes they can't new templars that are competent no.



#107
berrieh

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I think the Templars themselves have proven that they cannot be trusted with independent authority.

 

I agree that they likely cannot be. But that doesn't mean they actually lack the authority, which was the premise of the comment I replied to. I'm for Reformation and independent oversight - not necessarily Chantry, as they are too large to oversee they properly, but perhaps some board or faction designed solely for the purpose of oversight with lots of checks and balances.



#108
themugen

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Not rly magic in da pretty much makes you walking unstable bomb non-mages aren't one peoples in-universe have many good reasons to hate magic as it does a lot more trouble than it does good.

don't really see evidence that it does more trouble than good.  And besides, even if it does more bad than good, EVERYONE has magic in them.  To some degree.



#109
TheKomandorShepard

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don't really see evidence that it does more trouble than good.  And besides, even if it does more bad than good, EVERYONE has magic in them.  To some degree.

Well i advise buy at least 1 da game. :devil:

Not rly as i said mages are walking bombs non-mages aren't... there is pretty much colosal difference between non-mage and mage.So not everyone have magic in them everyone can be connected to the fade but they don't have any magic . 



#110
General TSAR

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Hopefully.

 

If given the choice to kill the brat and gain Lambert as a companion, I'd do that in a heartbeat. 


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#111
themugen

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Well i advise buy at least 1 da game. :devil:

Not rly as i said mages are walking bombs non-mages aren't... there is pretty much colosal difference between non-mage and mage.So not everyone have magic in them everyone can be connected to the fade but they don't have any magic . 

i've bought and played all the games released thus far  :lol: .  and yes, everyone has magic in them.  no one is born with the ability to use magic; those that can develop the ability later, usually around puberty.  just because one doesn't have access to magic doesn't mean he or she is magic-less.


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#112
TheKomandorShepard

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i've bought and played all the games released thus far  :lol: .  and yes, everyone has magic in them.  no one is born with the ability to use magic; those that can develop the ability later, usually around puberty.  just because one doesn't have access to magic doesn't mean he or she is magic-less.

From where you have information that everyone have magic "in them" we know everyone is connected to the fade but don't that everyone have magic and even if they have "magic" they can't do anything with that also doesn't change fact that non-mage in thedas is pretty much equivalent of normal human in our world and isn't dangerous in terms of "magical danger".



#113
themugen

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From where you have information that everyone have magic "in them" we know everyone is connected to the fade but don't that everyone have magic and even if they have "magic" they can't do anything with that also doesn't change fact that non-mage in thedas is pretty much equivalent of normal human in our world and isn't dangerous in terms of "magical danger".

World of Thedas page 90.  you are seeing danger in people who aren't always dangerous.  that in and of itself can be a slippery slope and become even more dangerous than the danger you are seeing.


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#114
Esteed789

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World of Thedas page 90.  you are seeing danger in people who aren't always dangerous.  that in and of itself can be a slippery slope and become even more dangerous than the danger you are seeing.

 

Exactly this.  People who see danger everywhere quickly become zealots, and zealots with power are far more dangerous than anything else.


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#115
MisterJB

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i've bought and played all the games released thus far  :lol: .  and yes, everyone has magic in them.  no one is born with the ability to use magic; those that can develop the ability later, usually around puberty.  just because one doesn't have access to magic doesn't mean he or she is magic-less.

That's a moot point. The ubiquitous nature of magic does not make those capable of manipulating it any less dangerous.



#116
berrieh

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Extremism would be trying to conquer all mundanes, like Tevinter. It is not extremism to try to escape crushing oppression.

 

Leaving the Circle is extreme - as evidenced by the fact that moderate and conservative mages have usually been unwilling to do it. Blowing up chantrys is extreme. Framing other mages for murder to push an issue is extreme. Trying to assassinate the Divine with blood magic to push an issue is extreme. Turning to blood magic to solve the problem is extreme. Forcing mages who have no interest in it to discuss independence and participate in a vote for it because you've already forced them into a treasonous situation is extreme. The Libertarians forced the Templar's hand as much as the most extreme Templars forced the mages' hands. It's very sad because extremists on both sides are a minority but created this whole conflict while moderate, sane people were pushed into it against their will and forced to deal with it and become more and more resistant to the other's side. This, of course, is exactly what the extremists who can allow no compromise want. 

 

Ignoring the place of extremist mages in this toxic situation is foolishness. Many of them were even more extreme than Seeker Lambert himself. 



#117
Esteed789

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That's a moot point. The ubiquitous nature of magic does not make those capable of manipulating it any less dangerous.

 

Nor does it make those that use this danger to excuse their own abuses any less dangerous.


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#118
raging_monkey

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This very calm for a MT thread...

#119
Esteed789

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This very calm for a MT thread...

 

Don't jinx us, dude.  :lol:



#120
raging_monkey

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Don't jinx us, dude.  :lol:

fine lol

#121
Apostate.

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fine lol

Don't be stingy with that Wine, Enchanter.



#122
raging_monkey

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Don't be stingy with that Wine, Enchanter.

got to the tevinter thread its there lol

#123
Yuoaman

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I think he's probably dead, but perhaps Cole was struck by sudden mercy and only wounded him, I guess we'll have to wait for Inquisition to find out.



#124
themugen

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That's a moot point. The ubiquitous nature of magic does not make those capable of manipulating it any less dangerous.

Same can be said of religion.  Or people with swords or...



#125
ChimpokumonMaster

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Personally I believe Lord Seeker Lambert is alive and possibly connected to the Red Templar business (speculations here so no Spoiler tag). I hope this is the case and I also find it convenient for the story.

 

The mage-templar conflict has no right or wrong side. The game series and novels had been quite unbiased in presenting material attacking both sides. If one wanted to be objective, the debate can go on indefinitely. But why be objective when playing a game. We the fans are certainly allowed to be biased.

 

For me I am all for the magi, (because, f**k, its all magic and s**t) the select few given special powers whose origin seems quite sinister. I always played as mage in my first play-throughs where I dig into the story and make all the choices. While my mage characters were uniformly sarcastic, they always made the 'good' choices available in the game. So my characters were always living proof that not all magi are evil. That made them stand for something in the big picture, which I thought was nice.

 

While there is no clear good or evil side in the mage-templar conflict, there certainly are good or evil individuals. Lambert being an almost stereotypical harsh leader on the templar side. His character was created very successfully and can support many interpretations. The fact that it can fan a heated debate in the forums is solid proof. And to think that BioWare just threw the character away, because Cole, (with his somewhat imbalanced abilities and way too melodramatic for me ............) was implied to have killed him in the end of Asunder.

 

There is something about the vagueness of the killing that gave me hope Lambert is not actually dead (although David Gaider likes to write that kind of endings). Plus of course the already brought up missing body and 'disappeared' status. None of it a hard death sentence.

 

We also find in Lambert a theme that I had particularly enjoyed in the Dragon Age series, that of the evil of pride (I like to interpret his action and abuse of power as being too full of himself, but many will disagree). Pride demons are the strongest of the four and if I am not mistaken, all the worst mages in the series had, in the end turned out to be possessed by pride demons. Lambert, and such leaders as Meredith on the templar side show us that non-mages can also be corrupted by pride because that is part of human nature. In my opinion these are far more interesting than the simple answer provided by demonic possession. 

 

So I hope that Lambert is alive and end up being someone corrupted to a similar degree (more would be better for game play) by the red-lirium that corrupted Meredith. And we can see once again that the fade is not so different from human nature. 

 

In the end I thank BioWare for giving us RPGs that are story-centric. I don't care for the gameplay so long as the story is thought provoking. That and I suck at actual game play. It's going to be easy difficulty for my inquisitor.


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