24 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadmuskrat]

Not sure how many people saw Yesterday's Twitch stream at PAX, If not, give it a look:



Now, I must express a worry and maybe it's something that can be confirmed or expanded upon by a dev, but it looks like the crafting system has the colors that you want your gear to have, are tied to materials that give certain stats. So you are forced to choose what is optimal vs what is pleasing to you.

This is one of those things that Bioware seemed to understand was wrong when they were discussing player choice for these past few years. Most recently in a Twitch stream they talked about how they made it so Skyhold's customization was not tied in anyway to the players stats or abilities.

I have to ask, why did you guys balk at this when it came to gear? If I'm playing a mage, and I want to have my colors remain blue and black, but those colors are tied to + cunning and + lockpicking, I don't have a choice in the color of the gear I create.

I'm not saying this is anything that is going to make me not want to play this seemingly amazing game, but I have to say that this overlooking of the mantra that you have been using these past 3 years is disappointing and I hope I'm wrong in what this video presents, or it gets corrected in later games.

[Nohvarr]

So you missed the part, where Mike states that different material types can provide similar stats and a range of colors to choose from?

 

Listen again around the 8 minute mark.

[Deadmuskrat]

So you missed the part, where Mike states that different material types can provide similar stats and a range of colors to choose from?

 

Listen again around the 8 minute mark.

Unnecessary commas aside, If you actually pay attention to the video, there is very little evidence of that as he goes through it. The only place I see where there is an actual choice between stats and color was in the defense undershirt option. which is pretty easy to do since the only slot that that material will ever change is defense.

It's when we get into the slots where you get stats like cunning, magic, cold resist. etc that i didn't see color variation among the same stats. I have my doubts that they are going to make a range of colors for each  time I want to add 5 cunning to my gear. I may be wrong and this just may be too early in the game to have collected all the materials neccasary to display this. Hence why I'm asking for clarification for what was said and shown in the video

[In Exile]

I share your concern, at least when it comes to certain colours IMO being off, and especially if you want to create a color scheme for the Inquisition.

[Kantr]

So you missed the part, where Mike states that different material types can provide similar stats and a range of colors to choose from?

 

Listen again around the 8 minute mark.

quoting because some people didnt notice

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Bioware said they are looking into dyes for customization so that you can use what material you want as what color you want. 

[Deadmuskrat]

Bioware said they are looking into dyes for customization so that you can use what material you want as what color you want.

Got a source for that?

The game has gone gold so what we've seen here is what we are getting. If they are adding it later as a patch, that would be very welcome.

[phantomrachie]

Not sure how many people saw Yesterday's Twitch stream at PAX, If not, give it a look:



Now, I must express a worry and maybe it's something that can be confirmed or expanded upon by a dev, but it looks like the crafting system has the colors that you want your gear to have, are tied to materials that give certain stats. So you are forced to choose what is optimal vs what is pleasing to you.

This is one of those things that Bioware seemed to understand was wrong when they were discussing player choice for these past few years. Most recently in a Twitch stream they talked about how they made it so Skyhold's customization was not tied in anyway to the players stats or abilities.

I have to ask, why did you guys balk at this when it came to gear? If I'm playing a mage, and I want to have my colors remain blue and black, but those colors are tied to + cunning and + lockpicking, I don't have a choice in the color of the gear I create.

I'm not saying this is anything that is going to make me not want to play this seemingly amazing game, but I have to say that this overlooking of the mantra that you have been using these past 3 years is disappointing and I hope I'm wrong in what this video presents, or it gets corrected in later games.

 

 

As I understood it, it's not the colours that are linked to certain stats but the materials you use to craft items.

 

E.g

Nug skin is black and gives +3 to heartlessness 

Dragon skin is black and gives +3 to badass

 

This way you can optimized your armour in whatever way you like.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Got a source for that?

The game has gone gold so what we've seen here is what we are getting. If they are adding it later as a patch, that would be very welcome.

I do not, sorry. I do know it was either a tweet or one of their streams though. 

 

It would definitely be as a patch or part of a DLC if they do it. 

[MzHyde]

As I understood it, it's not the colours that are linked to certain stats but the materials you use to craft items.

 

E.g

Nug skin is black and gives +3 to heartlessness 

Dragon skin is black and gives +3 to badass

 

This way you can optimized your armour in whatever way you like.

And each material is a different color. Color is determined by material and stats are determined by material. See how that works? Ergo color is tied to stats. It sucks, but it's true.

[phantomrachie]

And each material is a different color. Color is determined by material and stats are determined by material. See how that works? Ergo color is tied to stats. It sucks, but it's true.

 

Yes, but there are multiple materials that are black, like in my example. In all honestly I kind of expect different materials to have different properties, bear hide should have a different effect to dragonhide.

 

It would've been nice if there were able to implement dye like they wanted too but it doesn't look like they were able to.

 

It's still more customizable than the armour in the first two games.

[Gothfather]

Gawd Some people will QQ about anything. Even if you are correct and stats are tied to colour it is still your BLOODY choice to pick what colours you want for what characters. this is nothing more than a wah wah wah thread that min maxing just might have a concequense you don't like.

 

Concequenses you don't like =/= no choice.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Gawd Some people will QQ about anything. Even if you are correct and stats are tied to colour it is still your BLOODY choice to pick what colours you want for what characters. this is nothing more than a wah wah wah thread that min maxing just might have a concequense you don't like.

 

Concequenses you don't like =/= no choice.

People are allowed to voice their opinions, especially here in the Feedback and Suggestions section of the forum.

[MzHyde]

Gawd Some people will QQ about anything. Even if you are correct and stats are tied to colour it is still your BLOODY choice to pick what colours you want for what characters. this is nothing more than a wah wah wah thread that min maxing just might have a concequense you don't like.

 

Concequenses you don't like =/= no choice.

I think you misunderstand. Yes, we have choice, but having the color determined by materials that all provide different bonuses limits that choice. I want to play intelligently after all. I want to have all the best stats to maximize combat effectiveness while still being able to dictate the color of my armor. I've said elsewhere that it's a simple fix. All they would need to do is add dyes. Problem solved. In summary, 'tis a problem, but not a huge one. Just gimme some dyes, and I'll be content. Heck, I'll even say, "Thank you," all nice and polite-like.

[phantomrachie]

I think you misunderstand. Yes, we have choice, but having the color determined by materials that all provide different bonuses limits that choice. I want to play intelligently after all. I want to have all the best stats to maximize combat effectiveness while still being able to dictate the color of my armor. I've said elsewhere that it's a simple fix. All they would need to do is add dyes. Problem solved. In summary, 'tis a problem, but not a huge one. Just gimme some dyes, and I'll be content. Heck, I'll even say, "Thank you," all nice and polite-like.

 

It must not be that simple, otherwise they would've implemented dyes. I mean it has been something that they were talking about for a while & they know people want it.

[MzHyde]

It must not be that simple, otherwise they would've implemented dyes. I mean it has been something that they were talking about for a while & they know people want it.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I can still take what we got.

[SpiritMuse]

There are different materials with different colors that give the same stats. So there will still be choice.

[Auztin]

I don't see the problem.In DA:O & DA2 you couldn't dye anything.It isn't a BIG issue.

[Nohvarr]

People are allowed to voice their opinions, especially here in the Feedback and Suggestions section of the forum.

And other people are allowed to disagree with those opinions and explain 'why' they feel as they do.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And other people are allowed to disagree with those opinions and explain 'why' they feel as they do.

I have no problem with that. However the person I was replying to did so in an insulting way to the OP. 

[Deadmuskrat]

I have no problem with that. However the person I was replying to did so in an insulting way to the OP.

Hehe. No need to defend me. I knew full well when I made this post that there were going to be those who would see it as QQ even if I phrased it as diplomatically as I did. The rudeness was easy to ignore and dismiss due to poor spelling and grammar.

I really didn't expect people to rush to the defense of such a poor design decision though.

I could be wrong but for now, after seeing that video, I'm convinced that your colors are limited by what's useful to your class in terms of stats. I just don't get why such a system was put in place when it was easy to make it more open to the player's choice without sacrificing optimization of their character.

Perhaps there are modifications after the creation of an item that we just haven't seen explored yet.

[phantomrachie]

I really didn't expect people to rush to the defense of such a poor design decision though.

I could be wrong but for now, after seeing that video, I'm convinced that your colors are limited by what's useful to your class in terms of stats. I just don't get why such a system was put in place when it was easy to make it more open to the player's choice without sacrificing optimization of their character.

Perhaps there are modifications after the creation of an item that we just haven't seen explored yet.

 

I can't comment for others but I'm not really rushing to the defense of the decision, just pointing out a couple of things

 

• There are multiple materials for each colour
• It's not like we had this before & they took it away, this is a whole new system for BioWare so they can't do everything the first time.
• Dye's must not be that easy to implement. I'm not a game designer but I know that most games with a crafting system don't have dyes and I know that BioWare said they were looking in to it, so they must not be as easy as people think to implement. 

I would've loved to see dyes, but with a whole new crafting system, I understand that trying to do everything or 'boiling the ocean' could end up with things being poorly implemented or causing glitches. 

[ArvinDulku]

I really didn't expect people to rush to the defense of such a poor design decision though.
 
Because it isn't poor in any way at all.

I could be wrong but for now, after seeing that video, I'm convinced that your colors are limited by what's useful to your class in terms of stats. I just don't get why such a system was put in place when it was easy to make it more open to the player's choice without sacrificing optimization of their character.

I believe it indeed is and I hope they do nothing to change it all. You kill a brown bear or a red scaled dragon the armor should reflect that accordingly. How would it make sense otherwise? So yes, there is choice. You wanna be sensible and aware of the fact you are leading an organisation warring againts the end of the world thus equip yourself as best as possible? Or you would rather be fashion driven and would be utterly mortified to be caught in that color? So yeah, thats up to you.
 
Hopefully they introduce dyes at some point so all the weird fashion people would just drop this nonsense.
 
But yeah, color reflecting material is a good gameplay decision and far more immersive and no choices have been taking from you.

 

[In Exile]

I can't comment for others but I'm not really rushing to the defense of the decision, just pointing out a couple of things

• There are multiple materials for each colour
• It's not like we had this before & they took it away, this is a whole new system for BioWare so they can't do everything the first time.
• Dye's must not be that easy to implement. I'm not a game designer but I know that most games with a crafting system don't have dyes and I know that BioWare said they were looking in to it, so they must not be as easy as people think to implement.

I would've loved to see dyes, but with a whole new crafting system, I understand that trying to do everything or 'boiling the ocean' could end up with things being poorly implemented or causing glitches.

The problem is that you can't really customize stats except for armour. It was one thing to power game in DAO or DA2 and just not wear the best gear - but in DAI that isn't possible. Power-gaming is done via gear.

Which means that players might have to pick between being ugly and being strong.

[Deadmuskrat]

 

I can't comment for others but I'm not really rushing to the defense of the decision, just pointing out a couple of things

 

• There are multiple materials for each colour
• It's not like we had this before & they took it away, this is a whole new system for BioWare so they can't do everything the first time.
• Dye's must not be that easy to implement. I'm not a game designer but I know that most games with a crafting system don't have dyes and I know that BioWare said they were looking in to it, so they must not be as easy as people think to implement. 

I would've loved to see dyes, but with a whole new crafting system, I understand that trying to do everything or 'boiling the ocean' could end up with things being poorly implemented or causing glitches. 

If there are actually multiple materials for each color beyond when picking the item level and defense material, and the video above just doesn't display it, then i am completely wrong and would love to be. So far that hasn't been shown though.

This system of crafting was created to put the power of choice completely in the hand of the player. Look the way you want to look. It seems silly to then amend that with "Look the way you want to look, but we're going to tie a certain part of the customization to another type of customization so in reality you have a smaller pool of choices if you want to play optimally." Like I said, they avoided making Skyhold tied to the Inquisition. Why not with the Inquisitor and party members?  

There is already a color system in place so I don't understand the dye may be too hard to implement reason. The colors are already there. Just remove it from the material slot and make it a slider or a separate slot in the crafting. I can't think of a reason why that would be hard to implement in this system where it basically exist already.

"I believe it indeed is and I hope they do nothing to change it all. You kill a brown bear or a red scaled dragon the armor should reflect that accordingly. How would it make sense otherwise? So yes, there is choice. You wanna be sensible and aware of the fact you are leading an organisation warring againts the end of the world thus equip yourself as best as possible? Or you would rather be fashion driven and would be utterly mortified to be caught in that color? So yeah, thats up to you.
 
Hopefully they introduce dyes at some point so all the weird fashion people would just drop this nonsense.
 
But yeah, color reflecting material is a good gameplay decision and far more immersive and no choices have been taking from you."

The Immersion arguement is such a cherry-picked and subjective point of debate that I just have to laugh at it. Mostly because you're trying to say that reality needs exist game where fights consist of laser light shows. It doesn't hold up. plus, your particular brand is so easily dismissed in the fact that dyes exist in the real world. Coloring threads and animal skins has existed for a long time and we don't live in a world where magic exist.

Plus i can also swing the silly immersion pendulum the other way. The Inquisition is customizable to where you get to pick the colors that the inquisition flies. I would find it totally immersion breaking to have a scene where Inquisition troops are breaking down the doors of a keep and come pouring in. Flying the Red and Grey standard of the Inquisition. Then look! Here comes the Inquisitor!.... in his/her hot pink trench coat and green neon staff. Followed closely by his companions in brown and yellow plaid undershirts.

They may not look the best, but damn do their spells and abilities hit hard!

But in all seriousness, if you believe that adding feedback to a feedback forum is somehow nonsense, then i think it's time for you to take a break from the internet.