138 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJiveDJ]

I dont think not respecting all choices in a separate game is bad storytelling, honestly. I personally dont think it is a problem to allow players to kill companions and what not in that game, while at the same time not allowing you to create a "canon setting" that transfers from 1 game to the next. This idea that everything allowed in a game, must be respected and followed through to the setting hurts potential gameplay freedoms from game to game, simply because people want their more setting damaging choices to transfer. I think your mindset, personally, would reduce choices in the game(which I'm fine with, but I know some people are not). 

 Tomato, tomatto. A choice that isn't respected (or at least given the illusion of respect) isn't a choice at all, IMO.

[TheJiveDJ]

Acknowledging the death happening despite her not being dead is the opposite of "retcon" as there was no handwaving the entire matter away.

How you view the resurrection trope with "no foreshadowimg" In a Holy lyrium mountain with loads of spirits and a pot of sacred ashes is out of my hands, really. Would've agreed if we were talking about just any other companion + location.

Ah yes, "the wizard did it" gambit. Of course, any manner of mystical force could've revived Leliana miraculously. Thedas is practically crammed full of magic and spirits at all times; why then, we'll have to start second guessing the death of every person that the Warden or Hawke killed. How convenient.

 

As far as I remember, the ashes could only heal, not resurrect. Plus, Leliana only turns on you if you defile the ashes, which makes them worthless. Oh but wait, maybe a small pinch of the ashes survived the defilement! Or, or... the ashes became totally possessed by some super evil demon because blood magix and resurrected Leliana for an as-of-yet unknown nefarious purpose!!

 

 

Or mayhaps the maker Himself cracked open the clouds and bestowed upon Leliana the gift of re-lifening...even though that would completely contradict the lore which depicts the Maker as a non-interventionist deity. Right, right. It's sloppy, its lazy, its hand-wavy, its retroactive continuity.

[Muspade]

Ah yes, "the wizard did it" gambit. Of course, any manner of mystical force could've revived Leliana miraculously. Thedas is practically crammed full of magic and spirits at all times; why then, we'll have to start second guessing the death of every person that the Warden or Hawke killed. How convenient.

 

Right, right. It's sloppy, its lazy, its hand-wavy, its retroactive continuity.

If there was any place to "resurrect" a character, It would be there but suit yourself with the use of the term. 

Also, holy *, you're awake at the exact same time as I wrote back...

[TheJiveDJ]

If there was any place to "resurrect" a character, It would be there but suit yourself with the use of the term. 

Also, holy *, you're awake at the exact same time as I wrote back...

1:50AM here. I'm a nightowl.

[Meltemph]

look dragon age as a whole i love it its my most played game but at  least admit that its makes no sense that either one survived thats all im saying i mean every other person you killed up to that point stayed dead so why are they any different?

Liliana you can get around, because of where it happened(Even though, imo, they just need to say, nope not going to follow that "choice" all the way through). I dont know why they let you stab morrigan, I'm assuming giving you a way to "finish" your warden? I honestly dont know, but I do agree it was silly, but I think it was silly to let you kill characters that are shaping an entire brand new setting. So my problem with what they did is, they tried to fit it into the "canon" of the setting, instead of just saying, nope, not going to be transferred into the setting to other games. So yes, in this much I agree with you. Liliana and Wynn being in books makes it even more head scratching, to me, why they tried to justify her being alive, other then saying that choice didnt get transferred. But I'd rather have "magic did it" over not having them in the setting, so meh.

[sylvanaerie]

I don't get all this butthurt over the character's survival.  People point to "I decapitated her" as definitive 'proof' she's dead and can't be here.  How many times did you reload to get that animation?  Cause it doesn't happen every single time. I got it on Howe.  And I still got the 'Maker spit on you' dialogue immediately following.  With a head!  Should I then whine and cry because 2-3 times in 30 runs I managed to decapitate him and he shouldn't be alive still and talking to me?

 

People get all freaked out because their 'choices' are 'being ignored', like those choices are "sacred runes written in stone".

 

She lived--or maybe Leliana is the 'hidden abomination' character, an animated corpse.  Maybe one of the spirits in the Mountain animated her body and is using it to do whatever work it has to.  Maybe it was the Maker--maybe he interfered in this one thing because Leliana has a purpose beyond her own life.  Maybe it was the lyrium or the Faith permeating the place.  I don't know.  Maybe Bioware will provide us an explanation.  Maybe they won't.  They aren't obligated, but I'm curious what a 'dead' Leliana will have to say if asked about it, so I will be using one 'everyone died' world state to find out.  This is a realm of magic, anything could have happened, but pointing to a combat animation as 'definitive proof' is grasping at straws.

 

I should think people would be curious what--if anything--Bioware will do or say about this rather than whining retcon before learning the answer.

[Shahadem]

I didn't even know you could kill Leiliana.

[IVI4RCU5]

ME2 and ME3 were special exceptions. Mom was always a huge Trekkie and a strident feminist. I had told her about my experiences playing Femshep (the best space marine ever, IMO) and even shown her some gameplay. I asked her if she'd like to go through the story, but she didn't want to have to play the shooting parts. So instead, I played the game, and she made all the decisions.

 

One hilarious thing I learned? My Mom is WAY more Renegade than I am... >_>;

Sounds like you've got a pretty cool mom. 

I don't think mine would tolerate half a minute of me talking to her about my experiences playing Femshep before launching into a lecture on how my video game playing was a pathetic addiction and I should be doing something more productive with my life. 

[Zu Long]

Sounds like you've got a pretty cool mom. 

I don't think mine would tolerate half a minute of me talking to her about my experiences playing Femshep before launching into a lecture on how my video game playing was a pathetic addiction and I should be doing something more productive with my life. 

 

She is pretty cool, but don't get the wrong impression. She's told me a few times she regrets having gotten me a Playstation as a teenager. I've told her that I, holding down a steady job, owning my own car outright, and generally not having any self-destructive habits, seem to have turned out okay. :-P

[Aldrick]

I killed her in my canon play through.  I was playing a pro-Elf, pro-Mage, anti-Chantry, and anti-Templar Elven Wizard.  He despised the Chantry to the point that he willfully tainted the Ashes just to destroy them, since he did not believe in the existence of the Maker anyway.  He was already on bad terms with Leiliana due to her zealous faith, and thought she was a crazy woman who heard voices.

When he tainted the ashes both Wynne and Leiliana lost it and attacked him.  He killed them both.  ...or so he thought.

I do not mind Leiliana surviving the Warden.  It just makes the story more interesting in the end, so long as the reason is a good one, and the choice matters.  That is really what I want--I want the choice to taint the ashes and trying to kill her to matter.  I do not want her to forget, I want her to nurse some type of bitter grudge, and maybe have some horrible scar or something as a result of the encounter.  I think that would really enhance her character--making her more bitter and cynical.

[In Exile]

On the list of stupid decisions, trusting the insane cave dwelling hobo who thinks a random dragon is andraste is pretty high up there. So I can't say I even ever unlocked the reaver spec.

[boissiere]

I have already said once: I unlocked reaver spec with a savegame just before first encounter with this npc then I load my previous savegame and killed him.

[Nashimura]

I am going to make a save with her dead for sure... just to see first hand what she says about it. 

[sylvanaerie]

Considering every installment of Dragon Age has had a companion living with a spirit inside them.

 

Origins: Wynne

Awakenings: Justice--okay he's an animated corpse but still, you can make that same comment about Wynne

DA2: Anders

 

Every installment has had a Grey Warden companion as well

Origins: Alistair/Loghain

Awakenings: The entire crew are grey wardens if you play your cards right

DA2: Anders (and potentially Hawke's sibling if you make that choice and carry them around for the DLCs)

 

Even mundanes have been known to harbor a spirit in them

Asunder: Evangeline--once a certain event happens

DA2: Wilmod--granted he had a demon shoved into him, but he was possessed and he was a templar recruit, not a mage.

 

The more I think about this the more I have to wonder...Is Leliana going to be our 'abomination/spirit possessed' person?  Cole doesn't really qualify because he isn't a possessed person, he is a spirit.  Though that may fit the criteria.   Leliana was felled in a place of spirits in the seat of the very Faith many in Thedas follow.  I'm sure that's going to have an impact on why she's still walking around.

 

Perhaps a 'dead' Leliana will be reflected in some of her lines.  That had to have had a hardening effect on her.  Or perhaps it's boosted her faith in the Maker to new levels.

 

Regardless we will find out in a couple weeks now.