66 réponses à ce sujet

[Reaver102]

Did he say it was going to be a bad call, or it was a bad call? Because given that no matter what happens, Marethari dies and potentially her entire clan too, one could ague that it was a bad call for her to want to do it, especially since we (in a metagame sense) know that Merrill can't use it nor was it the only eluvian out there. Or maybe it was because he's anti-blood magic. Or. Basically, whats the context here? 

Managed to find an audio of the panel, may take me a bit to find the quote for Merrill but I'll update this post when I do. 

http://biowarebase.n...ppropriate.com/

Dragon Age: Thedas Unlocked

[SgtSteel91]

In the Keep I marked the Eluvian as not destroyed. Along with the Dark RItual, letting Avernus continue his research with no restrictions, and sparing the Architect I am interested in seeing where those choices go, even if it's off a cliff.

[Reznore57]

I think that mirror should be destroyed.

Or at the very least not activated.

 

In the Dalish origin , what Tamlen sees is pretty bad , a dark city and someone watching him , he freaks out ...and something goes boom.

That's not how the other mirrors in Witch Hunt or The Masked Empire worked.

Also I think Duncan said a couple of Eluvians were tainted.

If those mirrors are linked to a fixed network , I assume those which are tainted aren't leading to a place full of butterflies and bunnies.

 

If the other side of Merrill mirror is a place full of darkspawn , cleaning the mirror doesn't mean anything , once it gets re activated it will get tainted again anyway.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah I'm not really that concerned about the "killer mirror" at this point. After slaying Demonthari, it's pretty much Merrill's problem now. Maybe it will become a tourist attraction. Come and see the freaky mirror. 10 coppers a glance.

[Fardreamer]

If you let Merrill keep the mirror, she continues with her Blood Magic.

 

If she decides to destroy the mirror, she's basically giving up on Blood Magic.

 

So really the decision has nothing to do with the mirror being good or bad.  It's just whether you want her to be a blood mage or not.  On my (mostly) good character, I had her destory the mirror because I didn't want little Merrill to be a blood mage.  On my evil character, I had her keep it because I was a blood mage, so I figured she should be one too.

[Fardreamer]

With the demon slain, there's no danger to the mirror any more. AFAIK she only breaks it if she's a rival of Hawke, so if you want her to be friendly, keeping the mirror is your good option.

 

That's not true... she shattered it and was maxed out friendly with me.

 

EDIT: Actually, I'm a little fuzzy on the details now that I think of it.  Maybe I did rival her.

Modifié par Fardreamer, 02 novembre 2014 - 08:09 .

[Reaver102]

With the demon slain, there's no danger to the mirror any more. AFAIK she only breaks it if she's a rival of Hawke, so if you want her to be friendly, keeping the mirror is your good option.

The daemon was never in the mirror, it was bound to a statue. That was a lie Merathari made up.

[Reaver102]

I don't think she really gives up Blood Magic upon breaking the mirror. She's used it for other purposes besides the Eluvian.

She does, it's not clear in the game but was later confirmed by Merrill's writer, Mary Kirby, that on the rival path she gives up the blood magic. Which according to her, the rival path is all about.

 

 

Mary Kirby wrote...
 

Quote

Somebody wrote...
 

Quote

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

If you don't support blood magic and demons, why do you even like Merrill? That's like saying you like Oghren but disapprove of vulgarity. It's their raison d'etre.

 

She never used blood magic until she wanted to cleanse the mirror. Id like for her to stop using it.

 

That's exactly what the rivalry path is there for.

 

Mary Kirby wrote...

Quote

MasterSamson88 wrote...

Doesn't she generally give it up either way, when her companion quest is complete and Marethari is dead?
 

No, she keeps it if you're on her friendship path. It's just confusing at the moment because of the bug. (Which I've been promised should be fixed in the patch.) If you're a rival, she smashes the mirror. If you're a friend, she keeps working on the mirror and remains a blood mage.

 

Mary Kirby wrote...
 

Quote

Tigerking wrote...

So just to get this straight, Merrill can only be stopped from using blood magic through the full Rivalmance thing? You can't be friends with her but pick all the rivalry options that expressly don't approve of blood magic and tell her off for using it? If so, that's a helluva choice... 
(Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just want to be absolutely sure.)

You don't have to romance her. You do have to be full-rivalry to get her to stop using blood magic.

 

Mary Kirby wrote...
 

Quote

Somebody wrote...


Is there no way to get her to stop with the friendship path?

I think I will have to go rivalry then on my current playthrough. 
 

No. She will only stop the blood magic on the rival path.

 

[JWvonGoethe]

There should be a "Merrill did not complete the Eluvian" tile. Currently the Keep only accounts for the two options that arise from either 100% rivalry or 100% friendship with Merrill.

[Gervaise]

The problem I had with Merrill was that as a human who had little understanding of such matters, my Hawke's tended to feel we should be guided by Marathari as Keeper of the clan.    I was rather annoyed with the latter in sending Merrill away with me as it was surely her responsibility to deal with the matter but deferred to her judgment because she was the Keeper.    I also disapproved of blood magic and wanted Merrill to stop using it.    This meant I nearly always ended up with Merrill in rivalry.    As a result she chose to destroy the mirror, not me.    I must admit I thought it rather stupid of her to do so after everything we had gone through to keep it, because if what she said was true it was now both cleansed and demon free and there was always the possibility that some time in the future she might find a way to reactivate it.    After all if she had felt it was that important before to preserve it, what had changed?

 

I only once managed to get through to the end of DA2 with Merrill fully friended but even then, whilst she didn't destroy it, it was still dormant and as I understood it, only a shard of the original, not the whole thing (since Duncan had smashed it in the Dalish origin).

 

Of course Hawke wasn't fully acquainted with the history of that particular eluvian and from my knowledge of the Dalish origin I always wondered if it would be wise to reactivate it.   If it was focussed on a black city and dark spawn came out of it, surely that would still be the case even if "cleansed"?     I also wonder if it was really part of the original eluvian network or a copy.   Duncan claimed it came from Tevinter not Arlathan, which would suggest it was a Tevinter copy rather than the real thing.

[Zana]

Always have her destroy the mirror, but more for her own sake than anything else.  She really is going into the 'at any cost necessary' and 'I know better than everyone' mode on friendship path.  Heck in banter on friendship path she says that only thing she sees in the mirror are demons.  Rivalry path was more of a breaking her compulsive behavior at sacrificing everything for her goal. She always felt like a happier person at the end of rivalry path to me.

[Xilizhra]

If they screw over any Hawkes who friended her, I'm going to be angrier than I've ever been at Bioware for anything.

[Mistic]

I think that mirror should be destroyed.

Or at the very least not activated.

 

In the Dalish origin , what Tamlen sees is pretty bad , a dark city and someone watching him , he freaks out ...and something goes boom.

That's not how the other mirrors in Witch Hunt or The Masked Empire worked.

Also I think Duncan said a couple of Eluvians were tainted.

If those mirrors are linked to a fixed network , I assume those which are tainted aren't leading to a place full of butterflies and bunnies.

 

If the other side of Merrill mirror is a place full of darkspawn , cleaning the mirror doesn't mean anything , once it gets re activated it will get tainted again anyway.

 

This.

 

Many people point out that Merrill managed to cleanse the mirror. It wasn't tainted anymore. However, I was always afraid that the Dalish Origin Eluvian was connected to some darkspawn nest. If that is the situation, the moment the path is open again, the mirror would be tainted again. And there's worse: do people forget that the Eluvian teletransported darkspawn to the Brecilian Forest in the Dalish Origin? Would you risk that to happen in Kirkwall? My canon Hawke wouldn't (other Hawkes disagreed, though).

 

Others will say that Morrigan in Witch Hunt and Briala in The Masked Empire didn't suffer that. However, that argument has a problem: they didn't use Merrill's Eluvian. For all we know, that mirror might lead to a single path to the Deep Roads. Of course, there's the "you can't be sure of that!" argument. However, neither Merrill nor Hawke were sure either. For all her supposed expertise about eluvians, now Morrigan, Briala, Empress Celene and Grand Duke Gaspard know more about the mirrors than Merrill.

[Xilizhra]

This.

 

Many people point out that Merrill managed to cleanse the mirror. It wasn't tainted anymore. However, I was always afraid that the Dalish Origin Eluvian was connected to some darkspawn nest. If that is the situation, the moment the path is open again, the mirror would be tainted again. And there's worse: do people forget that the Eluvian teletransported darkspawn to the Brecilian Forest in the Dalish Origin? Would you risk that to happen in Kirkwall? My canon Hawke wouldn't (other Hawkes disagreed, though).

 

Others will say that Morrigan in Witch Hunt and Briala in The Masked Empire didn't suffer that. However, that argument has a problem: they didn't use Merrill's Eluvian. For all we know, that mirror might lead to a single path to the Deep Roads. Of course, there's the "you can't be sure of that!" argument. However, neither Merrill nor Hawke were sure either. For all her supposed expertise about eluvians, now Morrigan, Briala, Empress Celene and Grand Duke Gaspard know more about the mirrors than Merrill.

Most importantly of all, neither Hawke nor Merrill knew anything about that, so there's no logical reason to take it into consideration.

[boissiere]

I agree but I would find funny the consideration of a mage with Merril playing like Morrigan in witch's hunt...

[DarthLaxian]

I believe in the old Merrill thread Mary Kirby confirmed Merrill gives up blood magic if she destroys the mirror, as such I've always considered it the best path to take.  As for the mirror itself there is no guarantee that if the mirror is reactivated it won't become tainted again.  Better safe than sorry I'd say.  

 

What has this - irrational - fear of blood-magic got to do with it? (note: blood-magic is a tool - yes a very powerful one, but still a tool - and nothing more...yes, it may corrupt some people, but not all (remember Hawks' father? - He used it on the seals that kept Corrypheus trapped (!) and the grey warden joining is blood-magic at its' finest, too!)

 

Still, I will not destroy ancient artifacts either, if I have the choice (even more if they represent something that has been lost: transportation and communication magic that has - as far as we know - unlimited range (!)...meaning: step inside one mirror in ferelden and leave another at the Anderfels for example...I would want that, after all: That's what made stopping the last blight so hard - not being able to get word to grey warden headquarters ASAP) so the mirror was kept, cleansed and repaired

 

greetings LAX

[SgtSteel91]

If Taint and Darkspawn flood into Kirkwall because of Merrill's mirror then fine, that place was a shithole anyway.

[Br3admax]

What has this - irrational - fear of blood-magic got to do with it? (note: blood-magic is a tool - yes a very powerful one, but still a tool - and nothing more...yes, it may corrupt some people, but not all (remember Hawks' father? - He used it on the seals that kept Corrypheus trapped (!) and the grey warden joining is blood-magic at its' finest, too!)

Lulz. "Irrational" fear of demons, mind domination, abominations, and cutting oneself. By the way, Hawke didn't allow his children to use Blood Magic in his home, so yeah, obviously him setting up the seals wasn't enough to convince him that being a blood mage was a good idea. He used it once, and likely never again. For a reason. 

 

Still, I will not destroy ancient artifacts either, if I have the choice (even more if they represent something that has been lost: transportation and communication magic that has - as far as we know - unlimited range (!)...meaning: step inside one mirror in ferelden and leave another at the Anderfels for example...I would want that, after all: That's what made stopping the last blight so hard - not being able to get word to grey warden headquarters ASAP) so the mirror was kept, cleansed and repaired 

 

greetings LAX

 

It's a tainted piece of corruption that has already killed before. It has no cultural use. None of the people wanted it, and Merrill only forced it because it gave her some type of purpose which clearly she didn't have before in anyway she desired. And considering even more mundane disease required the death of the caster to cleanse with blood magic, and in the Last Flight the Taint had to be extracted into the Blood Mage to cleanse it from what it tainted, I'll go ahead and tell you the mirror isn't cleansed. 

[Xilizhra]

It's a tainted piece of corruption that has already killed before. It has no cultural use. None of the people wanted it, and Merrill only forced it because it gave her some type of purpose which clearly she didn't have before in anyway she desired. And considering even more mundane disease required the death of the caster to cleanse with blood magic, and in the Last Flight the Taint had to be extracted into the Blood Mage to cleanse it from what it tainted, I'll go ahead and tell you the mirror isn't cleansed. 

Anders would have said something if the Eluvian hadn't been cleansed (not to mention that Merrill would have died rather quickly).

[Br3admax]

Anders hates Merrill with a passion. And since she never activated the mirror, it probably won't Taint her. It didn't when she brought it from Ferelden long before she actually learned blood magic. It didn't taint Finn. Finally, no evidence suggests that you can use Blood Magic to that degree without dying in one form of the other. Merrill was tricked by a demon. It's not really that surprising. 

[Gervaise]

I think you need to draw a distinction between what Hawke knows in game and what we know from a meta game perspective.     Hawke doesn't know about the darkspawn coming out of it; I think Merrill only says that Tamlen was hurt by it.    So we know it has caused harm and it is/was tainted in same way.    Merrill seems only to know that it is an important artefact but has no real knowledge of what it really is and what it can do.     Marathari says it is dangerous and this seems borne out by her sending it and Merrill away from the clan (clearly as a typical Dalish she doesn't care what becomes of the humans in Kirkwall).    Unless you play Legacy early on, Hawke is likely to have been brought up by Malcolm to be wary of blood magic, whether as a mage or non-mage.    Even pro-mage Anders won't let the blood magic thing go where Merrill is concerned.   The only person in Hawke's friends or acquaintance who thinks the mirror is a good thing is Merrill herself.   If you take her into the Fade with you, she betrays you,even though she claims to recognise the dangers of demons.   This doesn't inspire much faith in her assertions that she knows what she is doing.      Even after Legacy, it was clear Malcolm was blackmailed into using blood magic, was very aware of the dangers and was not proud of what he had done, which was in contrast with Merrill's utter conviction that she was  in the right and knew what she was doing.    This is why I found it very hard to role play a Hawke who approved of what she was doing both in terms of the mirror and her use of blood magic.

 

Even if you assume Merrill did fill Hawke in on the events of DAO, that would make me even less likely to support her actions.    However, having got to the point we had in Act 3, it seemed daft to destroy the mirror at that  point.   Rather than destroy it or leave it in Kirkwall, I would have taken it up the Sundermount and put it in the cave where the demon was, warding it against entry.    Then if at some future point further information came to light about how what it did and how to activate it, we could possibly pursue the matter.     This is why I could opt for the Keep choice of preserving the eluvian but not if it meant the game assumed that my Hawke had fully supported Merrill in all her decisions regarding it.

[Xilizhra]

Anders hates Merrill with a passion. And since she never activated the mirror, it probably won't Taint her. It didn't when she brought it from Ferelden long before she actually learned blood magic. It didn't taint Finn. Finally, no evidence suggests that you can use Blood Magic to that degree without dying in one form of the other. Merrill was tricked by a demon. It's not really that surprising. 

Or, more likely, Last Flight was written without considering all of DA2's implications, and game canon, to my knowledge, trumps book canon. And not physically touching the shard while still carrying it wouldn't have been overly difficult. Finn's an interesting case, but I'd need to play Witch Hunt again to assess what precisely he did. However, I find it extremely improbable that you can try to cleanse something without noticing that nothing's there.

 

And Anders wanted to stop the Eluvian's construction; there's no way he'd hold back that information if it was present.