144 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

 

I really don't know why this bothers people so much...

 

 

 

And what makes you think DAI is any different in that regard?

 

That's easy. DAI is nowhere as ambitious as Skyrim especially given how much smaller BGS' team actually is.

 

Skyrim was a persistent open world. Skyrim was classless and based on the weapons and armor you used. Skyrim had a first person view and third person (people have no idea how difficult this is). Skyrim had killing moves for different types of weapons. Skyrim had an in-depth crafting system and a dynamic-localized economy. Virtually all items in the game had interactivity. Skyrim actually rendered mountains in engine rather than creating a backdrop. I can go on and on really, and this was with 100 people on the team. Did I also forget to say that BGS had to create an entirely new engine (Creation) and create their own mod tool set (Creation Kit) for the community to take advantage of? Yeah, the workload doesn't even come close to being the same.

 

Indie (guy and his wife) studio made an engine about 10 years, and kept improving it. 6 Years ago they made their first game complete. Two years later they made sequel.

It can support scabbards for hundred characters on the screen. That games has hundreds of various weapons shapes, and swords. 

That game has no clipping issues when it comes sheathed weapons.

Tell me something about that magic, and how the tiny company could do that 6 years ago and here we are in 2014 and AAA dev game, swords are still floating just like that. Any theory?

 

 

 

 

Official Creation Kit. Not much left to say.

Nice post.

 

Seriously, could you be any more evasive and nonsensical?

Literally everything I've said is pure fact, there's nothing flawed about it.

TW2 had a single scabbard for all weapons in the game and the execution of the sheathing animation was still very choppy = fact.

Vanilla Skyrim didn't have scabbards for 90% of the weapons in the game and the only really decent mod is still flawed and glitched = fact.

 

Now, let's compare that with your statements, shall we?

Plenty of other games have shown us how such a feature is properly implemented = a plain untruth.

Modders can easily create scabbards for different weapon types = half-truth. While the scabbards themselves are easy to mod, the sheathing animation isn't.

 

 

 

And that has to be the single greatest self-contradiction and hypocrisy I've seen in a while. Nicely done. I'm done with you, I don't fancy leading a never-ending discussion with people who completely ignore my arguments just because.

 

 

 

 

I don't even know which game you're talking about.

Nonstop raging. Believe what you want. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

 

I talked about this game in most of posts in this thread. And posted many images.

Anyway http://en.wikipedia...._Blade:_Warband

Nice post.

 

Couldn't the sword attach via some sort of magic?

 

I mean we have enchants that can do almost everything else, why not assuming an enchantment that makes the sword stick to the back?

 

Also, was I the only person who though this thread was going to talking about how the OP hoped that Bioware didn't use the same kind of massive shoulder armor WoW uses? Just thinking shoulder blades made me think of WoW rogue armor where so many shoulder pieces had knives on them.

We may as well have invisible mounts then... I think not. Dragon Age is obviously fantasy, but it's built far more in realism than many would believe. Outside of magic, dragons, races, and Darkspawn, there isn't a lot of fantastical elements.

 

No clue what are you on about now. That it has multiplayer ? DA:I has it too. About graphics ? Game been released 6 years ago by indie company, even before DA:O, and that grahic wasn't all that bad for its time..

And why are you avoiding to answer my question. How did they manage to do something that's so hard, according to your words?

 

Maybe some more images from the upcoming sequel ?

Look scabards again, and everyone can has his own. Must be some secret tech involved.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Is this graphic enough for you or still bad ?

 

The simple answer to the whole thing is - where there is no will there is no way. You can put your pure facts to sleep now.

Nice post.

 

 

Right, because this is the same thing as designing an entire game, which includes balancing a huge variety of resources and assigning priorities to those resources. 

 

Your retorts aren't even logical. I provided you with a simplistic way of understanding how easy making sheaths would actually be. Your response is "yeah well there game is too big and scary anyways, they don't have time!" The question was whether making scabbards were easy or not. They clearly are. Lets not be ridiculous.

 

have you seen the hair.

Frostbite 3 was built for Battlefield 4, which is a military FPS. I'm not sure if you've played it, but more or less everybody has a military buzz cut. I fail to understand why people use this as an "argument" when Frostbite 3 is one of the most advanced and impressive engines in the entire industry. Really, you are going to be in combat with full-clad plate armor anyways. You won't even see your hair.

[Sylentmana]

To be fair, magnets didn't exist as we know them in medieval society.  Our characters have lodestones in their backs.

 

To be honest, I find this annoying but not a serious issue especially since we can customize the look of our weapons and don't have to rely on the luck of the draw.  The thing that bothers me the most is that the rogues carry their daggers on their backs. I would prefer that they carried them on their hips where daggers are supposed to go.  Same with longswords.

 

Still, its not a big deal and will not effect my enjoyment of the game.

[Dutchess]

 

 Really, you are going to be in combat with full-clad plate armor anyways. You won't even see your hair.

 

That's not true. They've already said helmets will be taken off automatically for conversation in cut scenes. With DA's reliance on cinematic storytelling there will no doubt be a lot of those.

[Cerulean_Shaman]

I don't know why people are so vehemently defending Bioware choosing not to include some kind of strap/sheath/loop system for their weapons. It's not a huge enough deal to think the game is going to be marred by the decision, but I do think it's disappointing they didn't even try. 

 

Frostbite 3 was built for Battlefield 4, which is a military FPS. I'm not sure if you've played it, but more or less everybody has a military buzz cut. I fail to understand why people use this as an "argument" when Frostbite 3 is one of the most advanced and impressive engines in the entire industry. Really, you are going to be in combat with full-clad plate armor anyways. You won't even see your hair.

 

Agreed with everything else, but here do please speak for yourself. I always toggle "show helmet" off or simply don't wear one unless I'm "going into battle." The last thing I want to do is spend an entire game being as faceless as this guy. Yes, they have their place (I'm a soldier irl), but it's annoying not to be able to see my face and I figure annoying for my allies to never see my face either.

 

Ask any soldier, our helmets aren't even full visor helms and a soldier will always try to take it off whenever he can, even if it means holding it in your arms all day. Obviously the exception here is combat or while actively engaging in a threatening environment (somewhere were you MIGHT get attacked). 

[Revan Reborn]

That's not true. They've already said helmets will be taken off automatically for conversation in cut scenes. With DA's reliance on cinematic storytelling there will no doubt be a lot of those.

That is optional, but yes they will be removed automatically for cinematics. Again though, putting things into perspective, the cinematics will be a fraction of what you participate in versus exploring the world and engaging in combat. I'm not against the idea of better hair, by the way. I'm merely explaining that one cannot ridicule the entirety of an engine because of a lack of variety in hair.

 

I don't know why people are so vehemently defending Bioware choosing not to include some kind of strap/sheath/loop system for their weapons. It's not a huge enough deal to think the game is going to be marred by the decision, but I do think it's disappointing they didn't even try. 

 

 

Agreed with everything else, but here do please speak for yourself. I always toggle "show helmet" off or simply don't wear one unless I'm "going into battle." The last thing I want to do is spend an entire game being as faceless as this guy. Yes, they have their place (I'm a soldier irl), but it's annoying not to be able to see my face and I figure annoying for my allies to never see my face either.

 

Ask any soldier, our helmets aren't even full visor helms and a soldier will always try to take it off whenever he can, even if it means holding it in your arms all day. Obviously the exception here is combat or while actively engaging in a threatening environment (somewhere were you MIGHT get attacked). 

Fair enough. Besides cinematics, most of your time will likely be spent in combat though. I certainly understand a call for better hair and I'm in no way against that addition at some point. The issue has more to do with technological limitations and difficulty of rendering hair rather than failings on the part of Frostbite 3 or BioWare. Unlike animating sheaths/scabbards, hair is incredibly challenging to pull off. That being said, BioWare is committed to the Frostbite 3 engine for the foreseeable future, so it's very likely better hair will be part of that push in the future.

[Hathur]

Spoke to a family member about this (who is a medieval weapon's collector and amateur historian on medieval weaponry). Apparently two handed swords (zweihanders, claymores, etc) did not have scabbards designed for convenient drawing. Two handed swords were battlefield weapons, not personal defence weapons like single handed swords or maces and axes.

 

Instead, 2h swords were kept in a scabbard that was either slung over the back or carried over the shoulder. Drawing the sword from the scabbard often entailed removing the scabbard from one's back and drawing the blade like that prior to engaging on the battlefield. The scabbard would then either be slung back on the warrior's back, or (apparently more common) discarded to allow greater mobility in battle.

 

Some 2h swords also had something called "quillons". This is where the first 1/3rd of the blade above the hilt is actually blunt edged, allowing the warrior to first grab the pommel of the sword from their back, raise it slightly as far as their arm would allow, then reaching with the other hand onto the quillon to complete the draw. (This quillon would also apparently allow a warrior to wield a 2h sword as an improvised spear as well vs cavalry charges).

 

Suffice to say, it was not a weapon intended to be drawn and sheathed frequently... the sheer weight of them prevented them from being used in anything other than battlefields in large infantry warfare where they provided the most benefit anyway. People who needed an easy to draw personal defence weapon would carry sabres, rapiers, epees, scimitars, etc (not the european long sword as games and books often depict, those were actually mostly used by cavalry, despite being 1 handed, but their length made them slow and cumbersome to draw from a scabbard).

 

Anyways, was fun for me to learn that stuff.. as far as the game goes, my family member says that it would make more sense visually for the character to simply run around with the 2h sword resting against / over their shoulder, as drawing it frequently from a scabbard in small skirmishes wouldn't make sense.

[The Grey Ranger]

If by longsword you mean two handed then yes I'd agree with that, if however what you mean by longsword is the traditional knightly one-handed arming sword you're dead wrong.

 

They tend to be around 2 pounds and are quite easily wielded as a personal defense weapon and not just a war weapon.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Frostbite 3 was built for Battlefield 4, which is a military FPS. I'm not sure if you've played it, but more or less everybody has a military buzz cut. I fail to understand why people use this as an "argument" when Frostbite 3 is one of the most advanced and impressive engines in the entire industry. Really, you are going to be in combat with full-clad plate armor anyways. You won't even see your hair.

I'm just recommending against getting your hopes up about improvements just because of the engine. I've played battlefield 3 and 4, and while the hairs certainly aren't that impressive, they aren't glaringly bad either.

 

DAI's are atrociously bad even for last gen, and buzz cuts wouldn't look any better.

thanks for the pic nefla

[Revan Reborn]

I'm just recommending against getting your hopes up about improvements just because of the engine. I've played battlefield 3 and 4, and while the hairs certainly aren't that impressive, they aren't glaringly bad either.

 

DAI's are atrociously bad even for last gen, and buzz cuts wouldn't look any better.

thanks for the pic nefla

Again, Battlefield is a first person shooter. DICE has little interest in animating and rendering hair, as all of the characters are males anyways.

 

As far as hair styles are concerned, you are exclusively using Qunari females to bash DAI. I find that to be rather heavy-handed and inaccurate of the entire game as they have primarily horn options and not hair. You should use elves or humans if you are going to compare the game to KotOR I.

 

Also, the great thing about EA having all of their non-sports games using the Frostbite engine is everybody, including BioWare, will benefit. If BioWare doesn't implement in there own hair quality hair for the engine, someone else in EA likely will at some point.

[Almostfaceman]

Your retorts aren't even logical. I provided you with a simplistic way of understanding how easy making sheaths would actually be. Your response is "yeah well there game is too big and scary anyways, they don't have time!" The question was whether making scabbards were easy or not. They clearly are. Lets not be ridiculous.

 

 

No, you're just being too obtuse to follow the logic. That's your failing, not mine. I said, from the beginning, that you and I don't make games. We don't. Scabbards, now follow this logic, are part of a whole. A resource. Big and scary have nothing to do with a game is always limited. It's always a juggle of priorities, time, budget. Obviously, making a scabbard work in their game was not a priority and there's more involved than just making a scabbard. Maybe making a scabbard, making the animations, setting up world states for various regions, would have taken something away from building something else they wanted. I can't make this concept any more clear. The question was not, "are scabbards easy to make" the question was, to me, if you follow my argument, that scabbards were not a priority in their design. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that instead of scabbards they put in something else I probably wanted. 

[Revan Reborn]

No, you're just being too obtuse to follow the logic. That's your failing, not mine. I said, from the beginning, that you and I don't make games. We don't. Scabbards, now follow this logic, are part of a whole. A resource. Big and scary have nothing to do with a game is always limited. It's always a juggle of priorities, time, budget. Obviously, making a scabbard work in their game was not a priority and there's more involved than just making a scabbard. Maybe making a scabbard, making the animations, setting up world states for various regions, would have taken something away from building something else they wanted. I can't make this concept any more clear. The question was not, "are scabbards easy to make" the question was, to me, if you follow my argument, that scabbards were not a priority in their design. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that instead of scabbards they put in something else I probably wanted. 

That's fantastic, but that's not what this thread is about. People have been arguing that scabbards are too hard to do and thus they aren't in Dragon Age. I responded by saying that's nonsense and provided evidence of how easy it actually is. Priorities isn't even relevant to this discussion at hand. Given the fact that BioWare will be committed to Frostbite 3 for the foreseeable future, it's actually very likely we will get more newer features now as they won't constantly have to build new engines and recreate systems for a new game.

[Almostfaceman]

That's fantastic, but that's not what this thread is about. People have been arguing that scabbards are too hard to do and thus they aren't in Dragon Age. I responded by saying that's nonsense and provided evidence of how easy it actually is. Priorities isn't even relevant to this discussion at hand. Given the fact that BioWare will be committed to Frostbite 3 for the foreseeable future, it's actually very likely we will get more newer features now as they won't constantly have to build new engines and recreate systems for a new game.

 

It's actually very relevant to the discussion, since the discussion is why Bioware didn't put scabbards in the game. This is my theory as to why they did not. "Being too hard to put in the game" can simply mean it was too hard to juggle the resources based on time, manpower, budget. Plus, you've only demonstrated that's it's "easy" to make a model. Since you and I don't program in Frostbite, and haven't designed a game, we don't know what other challenges one may run into. All relevant. 

 

I agree that the more experience they have with Frostbite the more they will put into their future games, they're already saying things of that note about the next Mass Effect game. If there is a general clamor about scabbards, perhaps they'll put it in the next Dragon Age game. 

[Vilegrim]

Dammit Bioware, y u do dis again?

Iirc it was explained that they could either make all swords basically the same (as the witcher series does) so as to fit a sheath, or have a variety of shapes and no sheaths....well to be accurate scabbards but w/e

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Again, Battlefield is a first person shooter. DICE has little interest in animating and rendering hair, as all of the characters are males anyways.

 

As far as hair styles are concerned, you are exclusively using Qunari females to bash DAI. I find that to be rather heavy-handed and inaccurate of the entire game as they have primarily horn options and not hair. You should use elves or humans if you are going to compare the game to KotOR I.

 

Also, the great thing about EA having all of their non-sports games using the Frostbite engine is everybody, including BioWare, will benefit. If BioWare doesn't implement in there own hair quality hair for the engine, someone else in EA likely will at some point.

No they're not. In fact one of the main protagonists in the campaign is an oriental girl with a ponytail.

 

No I'm not, that just happened to be a pic someone showed me. ALL of the hair in game are awful. Even the beards are

 

 

Just look at the other thread. Not only do the hair look like stiff plastic pieces, the biggest problem is the transition from skin to hair, or rather the lack thereof. The base of the hair should always start out as very fine roots, as shown by the scalp texture in Kotor. Any type of blending at all is completely absent from the hairs and beards in DAI. You seemed to imply some sort of background in games or 3D, so I thought you'd pick up on it yourself or at least know what I meant.

 

My hypothesis being that Bioware has never priotised hair, or the graphics in general really, and if it's something that can actually go backwards or stay completely stagnant, you really ought not to be optimistic about scabbards.

[Revan Reborn]

No I'm not, that just happened to be a pic someone showed me. ALL of the hair in game are awful. Even the beards are

 

 

Just look at the other thread. Not only do the hair look like stiff plastic pieces, the biggest problem is the transition from skin to hair, or rather the lack thereof. The base of the hair should always start out as very fine roots, as shown by the scalp texture in Kotor. Any type of blending at all is completely absent from the hairs and beards in DAI. You seemed to imply some sort of background in games or 3D, so I thought you'd pick up on it yourself or at least know what I meant.

 

My hypothesis being that Bioware has never priotised hair, or the graphics in general really, and if it's something that can actually go backwards or stay completely stagnant, you really ought not to be optimistic about scabbards.

Well again this goes back to the point that hair is incredibly hard to develop in a video game. Part of the reason we don't see longer hair is because of this fact, as you clearly make it apparent the choices we do have aren't the greatest.

 

Scabbards are an entirely different issue. That's something that has been done rather well and by plenty of other games. How many games do you know that have actually developed quality hair? The most realistic hair simulations I have seen were tech demos and nothing more. I don't know a single game that has really ever done hair well. The Japanese tend to be more ambitious with hair options, yet even in their games it's still far from believable.

 

Linking a weapon and a scabbard together are one thing. Rendering each individual strand of hair on someone's head? That's something entirely different.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I never said anything about individual hair strands. But this is the worst hair in any contemporary major title by a mile.

 

Even Bioware have had better hair in previous titles, have they ever had scabbards? Look how long it took to get bowstrings. Zelda had bowstrings in 1998. So say maybe 2011-1998 = 13 years maybe dragon age 6 will have scabbards in 2027

[Rockpopple]

How did this thread turn into bloody hair discussion again?

 

I mean I may be losing my mind, but I thought this thread was about the magnetic shoulder blades making a return.

 

So maybe all you hair-talkers can take that discussion to the hair thread that's still on the front page? I doubt we need two of them.

 

...

 

BACK ON TOPIC.

 

I do love the fact that one-handed swords are now carried on the hip instead of the back. That's sexy as hell.

[Guitar-Hero]

You are no longer founded by the chantry, which means you can't afford it

[Guitar-Hero]

*funded

[The Baconer]

Beth did not build Creation from scratch (it's a souped-up Gamebryo), nor has Skyrim ever had anything resembling a dynamic economy.