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Why didn't the Mage Rebellion join the Tevinter Imperium?


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#26
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Because most of them would have been slapped in chains and sold to the highest bidder. 

That, plus the fact that a lot of them seem to have some kind of conscience. (Though that's one of the metrics of "magister vs. slave," so maybe this is the same issue.)



#27
Uccio

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Most people in Thedas are aware of the Tevinter's less than sterling reputation regarding their use (and abuse) of magic, as well as their continued practice of slavery, usually taken from other nations by force. While it's true that they are a magocracy, I don't think that many Circle Mages would be eager to run there, simply to be escape the clutches of the Templars.

 

From The Last Flight, it actually seems that a lot of mages are seeking out haven within the ranks of the Grey Wardens. Which says something that these apostates would rather travel to the Anderfels and dedicate the rest of their lives to fighting Darkspawn, than travel to the Imperium and deal with the Tevinter Magisters.

 

For me that seems rather stupid thing of writing the book. There is a change of living a normal life in Tevinter but at the ranks of the Wardens no such thing exists. Who in their right mind would make such decision?



#28
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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For me that seems rather stupid thing of writing the book. There is a change of living a normal life in Tevinter but at the ranks of the Wardens no such thing exists. Who in their right mind would make such decision?

That's what basically the entire thread is meant to explore.



#29
Hellion Rex

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For me that seems rather stupid thing of writing the book. There is a change of living a normal life in Tevinter but at the ranks of the Wardens no such thing exists. Who in their right mind would make such decision?

Not really. There is very little chance of Southern mages doing well in Tevinter. Both are rather crappy options. And I read it more as the Anderfels Circles turning to the Wardens cause those mages are near Weisshaupt already, whereas the rest head to Andoral's Reach.



#30
CavalierToast

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Feynriel's letter to Hawke in act 3 of DA2 seems to indicate he is doing pretty well in Tevinter for a southern mage (half-elf no less).



#31
MisterJB

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Only Dreamer to survive in two ages.



#32
Reidbynature

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Feynriel's letter to Hawke in act 3 of DA2 seems to indicate he is doing pretty well in Tevinter for a southern mage (half-elf no less).

 

"I watched my own master kill a rival magister in a duel just days ago. Sometimes I look around and think I understand the templars in Kirkwall."

 

Just how well do you think he's doing?  He's either a slave or an apprentice (or both) to a ruthless magister going by that letter.  Plus the line about Templars does strongly suggest he's lamenting his life there somewhat.  Not exactly all roses and smiles it seems.



#33
Yermogi

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I think it's probably because the mages don't want to become part of a system where they're abusing innocent people, because that's what they're fighting against- them, the innocents, being abused by Templars. I believe their goal is to create equality for mages, not make a government in which mages rule everyone.



#34
CavalierToast

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Just how well do you think he's doing?  He's either a slave or an apprentice (or both) to a ruthless magister going by that letter.  Plus the line about Templars does strongly suggest he's lamenting his life there somewhat.  Not exactly all roses and smiles it seems.

The general tone of the letter doesn't seem unhappy or oppressed - especially the last part: "My studies are going well. My dreams don't trouble me as much these days. I'm hopeful that, in time, I'll master myself. I just wanted to thank you. I owe you more than my life. I owe you my life and my future." Doesn't seem like the writing of someone who is enslaved.


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#35
Esteed789

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Everyone else has already pointed out some really solid reasons why most mages wouldn't view Tevinter as the promised land.  I'd like to point out that the Circles seem to have at least a decent number of elves in them, and I think it should be obvious that no elf would ever want to go anywhere near the Tevinter Imperium.


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#36
Reidbynature

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The general tone of the letter doesn't seem unhappy or oppressed - especially the last part: "My studies are going well. My dreams don't trouble me as much these days. I'm hopeful that, in time, I'll master myself. I just wanted to thank you. I owe you more than my life. I owe you my life and my future." Doesn't seem like the writing of someone who is enslaved.

 

It doesn't exactly rule it out either.  We've seen from DA2 that not every slave recognises their self as one or are treated particularly roughly (yet are still oppressed none the less).  And Feynriel could just be glad he's alive and being taught to control his magic.  Either way, slave or not, it doesn't seem like he's living it up.



#37
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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It doesn't exactly rule it out either.  We've seen from DA2 that not every slave recognises their self as one or are treated particularly roughly (yet are still oppressed none the less).  And Feynriel could just be glad he's alive and being taught to control his magic.  Either way, slave or not, it doesn't seem like he's living it up.

Feynriel has lived as a relatively free being. I think he'd recognize slavery when he felt it.



#38
TheKomandorShepard

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In first place cus mage life sucks in tev as well if you don't have position pretty much even when fenris sister gained freedom in tev she told freedom in tevinter sucks as well despite she was mage.Feynriel just got away with that fate because he is dreamer.



#39
ComedicSociopathy

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Because what the Mage Rebellion obviously wants to do to gain the approval of the common folk is align themselves with an empire of slave-master elitist mages who openly use blood magic and are responsible for the blights.

 

Yeah, that's the master plan right there. 



#40
TheKomandorShepard

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Because what the Mage Rebellion obviously wants to do to gain the approval of the common folk is align themselves with an empire of slave-master elitist mages who openly use blood magic and are responsible for the blights.

 

Yeah, that's the master plan right there. 

They are doing great from what i saw they attack everyone who just look at them. :lol: 


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#41
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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They are doing great from what i saw they attack everyone who just look at them. :lol:

Doesn't mean this can't make things worse on that front.



#42
Reidbynature

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Feynriel has lived as a relatively free being. I think he'd recognize slavery when he felt it.

 

Bit of an assumption.  Slavery isn't all chains and whips.  Hawke and his sibling were not cast in irons during their servitude, but they were slaves for that one year.  Feynriel (who is still quite young) could just see it as rules he has to abide by to live relatively freely in Tevinter.  Even if he is and did recognise it as such, would he send a letter pleading for rescue when Tevinter provides the one chance he has at controlling his powers and not succumbing to them?



#43
TheKomandorShepard

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Doesn't mean this can't make things worse on that front.

I doubt something can make Mages reputation even worse than it is right now even if they joined emperor from star wars (and well this was reaction on his death). ;)

I won't complain because I won't even have to convince folks to my solution they will support it without question.



#44
MisterJB

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Still, are the mages out of their goddamned minds? Even the most hardliners Pro-Templars didn't really believe they would start setting people on fire for no reason the moment there weren't Templars activelly preventing them from doing so.

Clearly, we were wrong.


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#45
inko1nsiderate

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The general tone of the letter doesn't seem unhappy or oppressed - especially the last part: "My studies are going well. My dreams don't trouble me as much these days. I'm hopeful that, in time, I'll master myself. I just wanted to thank you. I owe you more than my life. I owe you my life and my future." Doesn't seem like the writing of someone who is enslaved.

He's also a dreamer.  Dreamers are potentially incredibly powerful, and exceedingly rare.  Even then, his experience there makes him have ANY amount of understanding towards the actions of the Templars in Kirkwall, and the Templars in Kirkwall engage in the Rite of Tranquility at far higher rates than most other circles (so they basically represent some of the more hard-lined Templars in Thedas).  So the experiences of a very gifted, potentially powerful, and rare individual is enough to make him sympathize with the most hard-lined Templars?  He might be having an overall positive time, but this should be enough to cause other mages to hesitate at finding refuge in Tevinter (especially when you have to travel a very long distance full of Templars potentially wanting to kill you just to get to Tevinter in the first place).



#46
CavalierToast

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So the experiences of a very gifted, potentially powerful, and rare individual is enough to make him sympathize with the most hard-lined Templars?

Sympathize? He says he understands the templars. To me it seems he can understand why they are feared in the Chantry territories - mages lobbing fireballs in broad daylight, not surprising muggles would fear that.

 

For mages, the Chantry means a life sentence without parole (at best) or being abused by drug-addicted nutjobs like Ser Alrik (at worst). Were I a mage in Thedas, I'd take Tevinter any day instead of that.


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#47
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Sympathize? He says he understands the templars. To me it seems he can understand why they are feared in the Chantry territories - mages lobbing fireballs in broad daylight, not surprising muggles would fear that.

 

For mages, the Chantry means a life sentence without parole (at best) or being abused by drug-addicted nutjobs like Ser Alrik (at worst). Were I a mage in Thedas, I'd take Tevinter any day instead of that.

The Tevinters have the same Circle system. The main real difference is the possibility of rising to a rank where it no longer applies to you.



#48
inko1nsiderate

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Sympathize? He says he understands the templars. To me it seems he can understand why they are feared in the Chantry territories - mages lobbing fireballs in broad daylight, not surprising muggles would fear that.

 

For mages, the Chantry means a life sentence without parole (at best) or being abused by drug-addicted nutjobs like Ser Alrik (at worst). Were I a mage in Thedas, I'd take Tevinter any day instead of that.

Being sympathetically aware of the character or nature of something is, in fact, a proper use of the word "understand".  I may have read into that more than was appropriate, based on the context that a fairly jarring experience was also mentioned near the use of the word understand, but that doesn't mean your interpretation of his letter is the only valid interpretation.  

The fact that Feynriel is incredibly special goes a long way to help him fit into Tevinter life, and you can't expect every other mage to fit in as well.  Even if we take Feynriel's letter as unadulterated praise of Tevinter, many mages have to traverse many miles of hostile territory to get there, for a less than guarantee, and in addition some mages might be wholly opposed to the use of blood magic or slavery the way Anders is.  If they are absolutely opposed to slavery, and this informs their rebellion against the Chantry, they might see Tevinter as no better than the Templars.  This is probably doubly true if they have believed any of the Chantry propaganda about Tevinter at some point in their life.


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#49
inko1nsiderate

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I'd also like to point out, that the rite of tranquility IS used in Tevinter.  Which means, you STILL have to worry about it being used against you, but now you ALSO have that great added benefit of fearing it being used against you if you embarrass or threaten the power of a mage or group of mages that is higher up in the hierarchy.  And if I were a mage in Thedas, I'd honestly prefer being made a saarebas than be made tranquil



#50
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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And if I were a mage in Thedas, I'd honestly prefer being made a saarebas than be made tranquil

I have heard the assertion that Tranquil mages original personalities still exist, and are helpless to control their bodies. If that's true (which I don't remember seeing any evidence of personally) then being a saarebas might very well be better. Otherwise I don't see what's so bad about it, unless you're cured and have to live with the memories of having your emotions stunted.* And that's especially true when weighed against anything else a mage can deal with.

 

* Whatever Gaider says the whole "no emotions at all" thing just doesn't seem consistent with what I've seen.