13 réponses à ce sujet

[mizkazooka]

I'm new to Dragon Age, just picked up and marathoned through Origins about a month ago when a friend was talking about Inquisition. So maybe this is in a codex somewhere that I've missed. I know that people are born as mages and the talent shows itself eventually, and that magic is from the fade, but how exactly do mages manipulate magic? Is it an instinctual thing like breathing? They want fire there, boom, there's fire? Or is it something that's studied and understood, like a science? Do mages have formulas running through their minds when they cast?

 

I guess I'm thinking of it like wizard vs sorcerer in DnD. Wizards study magic and learn to manipulate it, sorcerers just do it. I'm just wondering how it works in DA.

[Kenshen]

Just like a person who shows jedi traits as a kid isn't a jedi until they receive training.  Mages are just the same they have the power at birth but need to be trained how to use and control that power.

[mousestalker]

They first acquire a rod. They then affix a thin, strong line to it with a hook at the end furthest from the rod. Many mages often attach brightly coloured small fetishes to the line as well as small weights. Standing on the banks of Lake Calenhad, the mage grasps the rod firmly with both hands. The mage then throws the weighted hook into the lake with a swift flip of the wrist.

That's how a mage casts.

[MouseHopper]

What they said!!

[Merle McClure II]

From DnD Terms Mages would be more akin to Sorcerers, as I understand it the "Mage Gene" allows them to harness and shape "Fade Energy" (aka Mana), spells are basically "thought patterns" that said "Fade Energy" can be woven into to cause effects in the physical realm. Remember that how much Mana a mage can use at any given time is directly measured by how strong their will is. (So is whether or not their spell works, remember the pupil whose mentor was testing their mystical shield and upbraided him because of the pupil's "faltering will".)   

 

 

 

As far as I know we've never been shown what a "spell formula" actually looks like, although I'd assume that they can be written down in some format, considering the "summoning side quest" in the Circle's Tower. However we also know that learning new spells can be done while "in the field" and doesn't actually require a fancy lab or arcane library.

[Vazgen]

The way I understand it is this - mages are attuned to the Fade and can draw upon its power to influence different forces in real world. Every magic school manipulates certain natural forces [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. The power is limited by mana and spells can't perform non-natural tasks like teleportation and bringing people to life [1], [2].

When casting spells, the mage draws power from the Fade. Different Fade spirits help with different spells, some willingly, some less so. Note that the Veil prevents the demons/spirits to pass into real world while casting spells [8]. Only blood magic and/or extensive death can create tears in the Veil and demons can physically enter real world and possess mages creating abominations [7], [9]. Possession can also take place when the mage sends his/her consciousness into the Fade using lyrium (Harrowing).

Here are the codex entries describing magic workings:

1. Mana and the use of magic
2. The cardinal rules of magic
3. The four schools of magic: Primal
4. The four schools of magic: Creation
5. The four schools of magic: Spirit
6. The four schools of magic: Entropy
7. Blood Magic: The forbidden school
8. The Veil
9. Tears in the Veil

[Vazgen]

To add upon this last post, some more information, coming from Magi Origin.

1. The Spirit of Valor tells that "I understand that in your world, mages are the only ones who can will things into being." Keyword here is "will". Your willpower determines to what extent you can use the power of the Fade to manipulate energies around yourself. 

2. Spells react to mage's emotions (you can see that in the library on the first floor of the tower). Flame starts to leap around, Spell Shield is weakened. Doubt, fear - all can lead to serious injuries, failed spells and even death of the caster. Thus, a mage must always be in control of his emotions. That's another aspect where willpower plays a large role.

Classifications of spells:

Primal and Spirit schools are united in Schools of Energy

Similarly, Schools of Creation and Entropy form two sides of the same coin - Schools of Matter

You can see the connection between those pairs. Primal school manipulates perceptible and visible forces of nature - fire, ice, lightning and rock. Spirit school manipulates invisible energies that are not natural - the energies of Fade itself, which allows mages to manipulate mana and even summon spirits from the Fade.

The Schools of Matter focus on natural energies. And while Entropy focuses on death, erosion and decay, Creation's focus is life, willing new things into being and improvements. There is no life without death and vice versa. Thus, a student of the School of Creation will understand the School of Entropy much easier than, say, a student of the School of Spirit.

 

Effects that a mage can achieve with Blood Magic are sometimes indistinguishable from spells of Spirit and Entropy schools. The reason why one is forbidden and the others not, is because blood magic thins the Veil in the place where it's used.

[Merle McClure II]

Also remember that per the Lore (albeit NOT in Gameplay) ANY Mage has the ability to cast using their own life force, not just Bloodmages, in fact it's mentioned that more then one student has actually killed themselves by doing so.

[Vazgen]

True, it's mentioned in Mana and the use of magic. It's quite interesting actually. How do they do that without learning blood magic?

Why does Blood Magic thin the Veil and Entropy doesn't? Blood Sacrifice and Life Drain are pretty much the same. 

 

Edit: Checked it again. Can it be that the life-force mentioned in the codex is not actual health? Meaning that you don't necessarily injure yourself to use spells. Injury can occur due to over-exertion but you can avoid it if you're careful. You can't do that with blood magic.

 

Edit 2: Entropy spells "manipulate the forces of erosion, decay, and destruction". Those forces are natural, despite their "dark" nature. So when someone uses Drain Life, he does not suck the blood of the target, like Blood Sacrifice, he uses the very mortality of the target to manipulate its life-force and transfer it to himself. That's why Drain Life can be resisted while Blood Sacrifice can't (if the target has blood, of course). 

[Merle McClure II]

Well to be fair, death and suffering in general is treated as "thining the Veil" sans magic so I'm not entirely sure that veil thining is an inherent part of Blood Magic or just a side effect of the way it's practiced. --- I'm trying to thing back and unless I'm not remembering one, I think every time we get to see an actual Veil tearing it requires the death of a sentient being to power the ritual.

[SwobyJ]

-Everything is magic, just in different forms

(It is hinted that Thedas itself is a magical place, but it is so mundane to its residents that they don't realize that)

 

-Every mortal is a little bit magic, as it is what grants emotions and thoughts.

 

-However, what we typically define as a 'mage', is a mortal who has a greater connection to the realm of the Fade (in particular the Yellowish dream place of the Fade, as exploring elsewhere is either ancient history or considered impossible).

This measurement is called 'mana'. It is the spiritual part of a mage that may be depleted when casting magic.

 

-What mages typically utilize, is a sort of magic that taps into the greater realms beyond Thedas and brings it out into Thedas, using the mage as a conduit. A mage's staff is also used as a focus for this, even though it is not outright necessary - though with a staff focus, a mage can visualize a spell and refine it.

 

-There are other magics, of course. Since DAO there has been Blood Magic, which seems to operate in the form of self or external living sacrifice, and it seems more based on Thedas than on the Fade. In DAI there is the inclusion of Rift Magic (and a Spirit Magic tree that is related-looking to it in some ways), and this seems to draw more upon the magics of the realm of the Fade that may be called the 'Abyss', where the most bizarre magics are possible.

 

Essentially, mages are those who bring the Beyond into Thedas. They have that greater spark of the divine inside them, and are able to operate as bridges to and from the Fade. When they do enough, they can even weaken the Veil around them or the area that they've cast magic, and this opens them ever more to possession - at which point they'd need to dominate the demons they come across, if they want to continue casting such magic and being so open to the Fade. This binding of demons is something that Tevinter does, with Blood Magic, in order to keep them from overtaking their mages and society. This attaches demons to something of the physical (even a person) and has them attached to their will or non-will, keeping the demon's physical consistency but leaving it a slave.

 

To respond to earlier posts - all magic thins the Veil but in different ways. Blood Magic may reinforce a certain mode of existence for Thedas, but it breaches the Veil in violent ways. Other Magics simply weaken or warp the Veil. Rift Magic and related sorts may instead be what outright created the Veil (given that it isn't a literal Veil, but often can be considered a magic of 'perception', keeping Spirits and Mortals from interacting). Its important to remember that the Veil itself is magic, and that given the nature of Thedas so far, everything is magic and the greater illusion is actually that anything is 'real'.

Rift, Veil, Spirit, Creation magic may all have a sort of similar source, represented by a Green color.

 

Necromancy is a more newly introduced concept that may be considered akin to Blood Magic, but not exactly. Many spirits (minor spirits but typically demons) when crossing the Veil find corpses to inhabit, and we call these undead. Whereas normally it would (and it still can) require blood magic to bind these demons, necromancers instead utilize the specific magics of death (or the crossing between life and death) to still manipulate the dead and entropic energies, WITHOUT blood sacrifice/magic.

It is a still little-known practice that we may see elaborated when we get to Nevarra in a DLC/game. It is often represented by the Purple color, through I've seen Green and Red used for it too so a lot of stuff can be called 'necromancy' if its done through other means. But purple Necromancers do not sacrifice and do not create monstrosities, but instead do something that can be called more as a 'convincing' than a 'binding' of undead (compared to Blood Magic), getting them to do the same things as a full blood binding but without the literal attachment.

 

 

 

Magic is a mix of a lot of things. You may consider it more of a physical force, a way of nature. Or you may see it as drawing upon the Fade (or 'Beyond', as elves more consider it). Or you may see as ultimately a science in itself, that encompasses all things. Depends on your perspective and what you're using it for. In any case, it is what makes up the majority of Dragon Age's lore and plots, one way or another. Warriors still end up putting magical runes and gear on, or using magical derivatives themselves (like Templars and Reavers). Rogues still end up using magical concoctions and tap into a a part of themselves that just might be called magical (up for debate).

But so far, it is the Mages that directly interact with the magics of the world and thus they get a fair bit of the greater lore. Bioware balances this out by having Warriors more relevant for the 'epic battles' theme, and Rogues more relevant for the 'Thedas life' theme (whether its as a hunter in the wilds or a merc in the city), so we'll never get a Dragon Age that is 100% about the concept of magic.

[SwobyJ]

A lot of magic is simply from imagination and tapping into the powers of creation.

 

So yes, sometimes all a mage needs to do is think of fire and they create it. It does take training and foci (like staves) to use it to a fuller extent.

 

They are, in a way, mini-gods. Though technically any mortal carries a magical potential. Imbue anyone (somehow) with the attribute of holding greater mana in themselves, and you have that mortal now a 'mage'. Warriors have to play catch up through various magical means (like Templars do) + personal training and strength. Rogues play catch up by not playing catch up - they focus on stealth, debilitating the enemy before they can do anything, laying traps, etc. Thus in the end, all the 3 classes in themselves are of relatively equal power - even as the biggest enemies and figures of Dragon Age tend to have at least some level of magic associated with them.

[Vazgen]

Interesting idea Swobyj! I'm starting to think that mages are the closest to demons in real world (maybe that's why they attract demons). They can shape reality according to their will but require power from the Fade or their blood to do so. The words of the Spirit of Valor seem to be applicable to the real world as well.

"Did you create all these weapons?"

"They are brought into being by my will. I understand that in your world mages are the only ones who can will things into being. A weapon is a single need for combat and my will makes that need reality."

So, spells seem to be ideas given form. An idea of an earthquake, knitting flesh, binding spirit to a dead body - those ideas are given form by using the power from the Fade and mage's willpower. The power needs direction and has 4 to choose from - creation and destruction (Schools of Creation and Entropy), invisible and visible forces of nature (Spirit and Primal Schools). So to actually cast a Fireball, mage thinks of a ball of fire directed at his enemy and directs the power of the Fade into the visible forces of nature. The power affects those forces and creates the Fireball. 

This also eliminates of need for spell tomes, all they can do is offer guidance to certain complex ideas but a mage needs to fully grasp that idea and its appropriate energy aspect. This makes learning in the field a quite possible and natural process for any mage who's willing to try new things.
Blood magic draws the power from the blood of a caster and affects that of the others. It is corrupting, because to use it effectively a mage needs to be fine with ideas of mind control and manipulation. 

[SwobyJ]

Yep. Blood is the most basic, as it requires little thought but violence. Then there's the many other 'accepted' elemental/etc 'schools' of magic, employed by the control system of the circle/chantry/etc. Then there's the furthest and most experimental magics of the fade rifts, necromancy, spirit (all to varying degrees).

 

All are dangerous and all are helpful in their all ways. For all of Thedas, blood magic is actually probably one of the most common magics, at least it was until the Chantry crusaded against it.

 

Dragon Age starts with us thinking that Thedas is the real world and everything else is otherworldly, fade, and strange (and many prominent character in Inquisition still believe this, and it is a valid mode of thinking, as a Thedosian at least). But the greater truth appears to be that the most 'real' world is actually the Abyss we see in Inquisition (if anything), and it is Thedas that is a dream made concrete. Mages may dream of the Fade and wish to conquer it, but spirits see Thedas as a dream come true, where they can make anything happen, and be equipped to do it, unlike how they were created by the Maker. In that sense, Thedas is magic. Justice actually gets a bit into this in Awakening.

 

And yeah, blood magic itself doesn't corrupt. Its just.. what it is. Taking some of your blood as a donation for a spell may be a bit 'eww', but otherwise shouldn't mean much. What it does mean is that the more you do it, the more you see yourself and especially others as just shells for use as tools. On the other end, I'd guess that employing enough spirit magic and interacting with enough (even very positive) spirits gives one the feeling of ascension and that the body is just a shell that can house more than just the one soul, and that soul can move on to the Maker's side, etc. This may be more on the good side of things, but can also open up to catastrophe.

 

Most people on Thedas live in between that, considering themselves just people, and they tend to be scared by blood magic and creeped out by spirit magic (it is one of the least well-regarded yet still accepted Schools). This is likely not what the Maker intended (especially on the spirit side of that), but the creation of the Veil changed things, and beliefs in Thedas changed as well (Solas speaks of a world without a Veil, yet the Maker is said to have created the Veil.. hmm).