The whole notion of OW being able to "participate" in Witch hunt is a silly thing in the first place.
Witch Hunt started because there were reports of Morrigan in the area... The OW could have been given the same reports, and thought to investigate due to her knowledge of the DR(just because the Warden died, doesn't mean s/he didn't tell anyone about Morrigan's offer).
The whole notion of OW being able to "participate" in Witch hunt is a silly thing in the first place.
Not necessarily, though to make it work they'd need significant dialogue changes to explain why the OW was interested in finding this companion of the HoF who mysteriously disappeared but is now back.
If I was the OW, just a physical description of Morrigan would be enough to make me want to find her...
Witch Hunt started because there were reports of Morrigan in the area... The OW could have been given the same reports, and thought to investigate due to her knowledge of the DR(just because the Warden died, doesn't mean s/he didn't tell anyone about Morrigan's offer).
I would probably prefer to have an option such as "didn't look for Morrigan", to match with my Orlesian Warden. Already suggested it via the feedback option.
I would probably prefer to have an option such as "didn't look for Morrigan", to match with my Orlesian Warden. Already suggested it via the feedback option.
I agree. While the events still occur, the Warden's participation in Witch Hunt is hardly relevant unless he goes through the Illuvian. Unless the gift she says she is leaving is REALLY important.
I agree. While the events still occur, the Warden's participation in Witch Hunt is hardly relevant unless he goes through the Illuvian. Unless the gift she says she is leaving is REALLY important.
I was under the impression that "the gift" was the book she stole from the Ariane's clan...
That said, i'd like to clarify your statement of Witch Hunt's relevance... It's only "irrelevant" if the Warden does nothing. If s/he stabs Morrigan or goes through the Eluvian it becomes relevant. Perhaps not to the Inquisitor, or DAI in general, but it is still relevant to the World State...
I would probably prefer to have an option such as "didn't look for Morrigan", to match with my Orlesian Warden. Already suggested it via the feedback option.
I understand the sentiment, but that's like saying you want an option to have an Orlesian Warden in Awakening when the HOF survived the battle with the Archdemon... Even if the reasons aren't "good", you still have to accept that the OW, if the Warden Commander of Ferelden, participated in the events of Witch Hunt.
Witch Hunt started because there were reports of Morrigan in the area... The OW could have been given the same reports, and thought to investigate due to her knowledge of the DR(just because the Warden died, doesn't mean s/he didn't tell anyone about Morrigan's offer).
That's like... really sketchy. It would mean that our character did something offscreen during the game. That's not something that should happen. Also, why would the Warden do this? When would the Warden do that? To whom would he tell it? Why would that person told that to Orlesian Warden of all people and only to the Orleasian Warden? Something like this never happened. The reason why Orlesian Warden goes looking for Morrigan just do not exist 'cause no one bothered with making them up. And I can live with that. I just don't like it. Also the option of "Didn't go looking for Morrigan." is kinda viable, you made that choice by simply not playing the DLC.
That's like... really sketchy. It would mean that our character did something offscreen during the game. That's not something that should happen. Also, why would the Warden do this? When would the Warden do that? To whom would he tell it? Why would that person told that to Orlesian Warden of all people and only to the Orleasian Warden? Something like this never happened. The reason why Orlesian Warden goes looking for Morrigan just do not exist 'cause no one bothered with making them up. And I can live with that. I just don't like it. Also the option of "Didn't go looking for Morrigan." is kinda viable, you made that choice by simply not playing the DLC.
Perhaps, but not necessarily... The Warden can discuss the DR with Alistair/Loghain even if no one ever does it. This is almost especially true with a Female Warden. Why anyone told the Orlesian Warden about something that never even happened is up for debate, but so is why the Orlesian Warden even took the initiative to look for Morrigan...
That's like... really sketchy. It would mean that our character did something offscreen during the game. That's not something that should happen. Also, why would the Warden do this? When would the Warden do that? To whom would he tell it? Why would that person told that to Orlesian Warden of all people and only to the Orleasian Warden? Something like this never happened. The reason why Orlesian Warden goes looking for Morrigan just do not exist 'cause no one bothered with making them up. And I can live with that. I just don't like it. Also the option of "Didn't go looking for Morrigan." is kinda viable, you made that choice by simply not playing the DLC.
Eh, in that case, you could just say the Warden and Hawke never existed, if I didn't play the games at all. This would drastically change the entire game, of course, to the point where the events of Inquisition couldn't even take place. For the plot to be coherent, certain events need to unfold, regardless of the player's actions.
Eh, in that case, you could just say the Warden and Hawke never existed, if I didn't play the games at all. This would drastically change the entire game, of course, to the point where the events of Inquisition couldn't even take place. For the plot to be coherent, certain events need to unfold, regardless of the player's actions.
But I wouldn't say that, 'cause there is a difference, for me. It doesn't matter whether Orlesian Warden goes looking for Morrigan or not 'cause his actions won't change anything about the outcome. Even if you stab her, nothing changes.
I was under the impression that "the gift" was the book she stole from the Ariane's clan...
That said, i'd like to clarify your statement of Witch Hunt's relevance... It's only "irrelevant" if the Warden does nothing. If s/he stabs Morrigan or goes through the Eluvian it becomes relevant. Perhaps not to the Inquisitor, or DAI in general, but it is still relevant to the World State...
I understand the sentiment, but that's like saying you want an option to have an Orlesian Warden in Awakening when the HOF survived the battle with the Archdemon... Even if the reasons aren't "good", you still have to accept that the OW, if the Warden Commander of Ferelden, participated in the events of Witch Hunt.
I think the gift is the book too, but so what about it? It's so ambiguous. But yes, I did forget about the option to stab Morrigan. I'd think that would bother her a bit.
I understand the sentiment, but that's like saying you want an option to have an Orlesian Warden in Awakening when the HOF survived the battle with the Archdemon... Even if the reasons aren't "good", you still have to accept that the OW, if the Warden Commander of Ferelden, participated in the events of Witch Hunt.
That's an interesting thought. Wouldn't you think that not participating to Witch Hunt is a choice comparable to not recruiting Shale, for instance? That's what I thought. The Warden Commander is no templar: he/she doesn't seem to have any significant reason to go after Morrigan if he/she didn't know her, and I don't see when or why my (dead) warden should have spoken about her offer for the dark ritual. It just doesn't seem right. I would love for the content to be optional just because it would give much more significance to the actual choice of going after her. If nobody is there, I would assume she simply goes through the Eluvian alone, leaves the book behind and everybody is happy (sort of).
Besides, maybe you should have an option to have an Orleasian Warden commander even if your warden survives, especially if you are ruling with Alistair / Anora. It just never made much sense to me that the queen / king consort of Ferelden would still participate in merry-go-rounds with darkspawn instead of staying home and *a-ehm* working on a heir. But that's just because I would have liked the opportunity to play an older more experienced warden, even if my Warden survived the final battle.
That's an interesting thought. Wouldn't you think that not participating to Witch Hunt is a choice comparable to not recruiting Shale, for instance? That's what I thought. The Warden Commander is no templar: he/she doesn't seem to have any significant reason to go after Morrigan if he/she didn't know her, and I don't see when or why my (dead) warden should have spoken about her offer for the dark ritual. It just doesn't seem right. I would love for the content to be optional just because it would give much more significance to the actual choice of going after her. If nobody is there, I would assume she simply goes through the Eluvian alone, leaves the book behind and everybody is happy (sort of).
Besides, maybe you should have an option to have an Orleasian Warden commander even if your warden survives, especially if you are ruling with Alistair / Anora. It just never made much sense to me that the queen / king consort of Ferelden would still participate in merry-go-rounds with darkspawn instead of staying home and *a-ehm* working on a heir. But that's just because I would have liked the opportunity to play an older more experienced warden, even if my Warden survived the final battle.
could't of said it better my self
That's an interesting thought. Wouldn't you think that not participating to Witch Hunt is a choice comparable to not recruiting Shale, for instance? That's what I thought. The Warden Commander is no templar: he/she doesn't seem to have any significant reason to go after Morrigan if he/she didn't know her, and I don't see when or why my (dead) warden should have spoken about her offer for the dark ritual. It just doesn't seem right. I would love for the content to be optional just because it would give much more significance to the actual choice of going after her. If nobody is there, I would assume she simply goes through the Eluvian alone, leaves the book behind and everybody is happy (sort of).
Even if the Warden doesn't recruit Shale, they still went to Honnaleath and "saved" the town and the people in it(and dealt with Kitty in some manner). The Warden still participates in the events, regardless of the outcome. Just like Awakening, just like Witch Hunt, and just like Origins itself... Without the Warden(Orlesian or otherwise) looking for her, Morrigan has no reason to leave the book. Not least because no one ever makes it to the Eluvian to find her without the Warden's participation, and she's not the type to waste anything(which is what leaving the book with no one present would be)...
Besides, maybe you should have an option to have an Orleasian Warden commander even if your warden survives, especially if you are ruling with Alistair / Anora. It just never made much sense to me that the queen / king consort of Ferelden would still participate in merry-go-rounds with darkspawn instead of staying home and *a-ehm* working on a heir. But that's just because I would have liked the opportunity to play an older more experienced warden, even if my Warden survived the final battle.
And maybe there should be the option for the Warden to have never participated in Origins to begin with, or that they just left Ferelden to burn because they didn't feel like bothering to do it alone...
You don't like my possible explanation for why an Orlesian Warden is looking for Morrigan. That's fine. Make up your own. If you can't, that's not a failing with the game, it's a failing of your own... Just as it'd be a personal failing, rather than the game's, if a player can't come up with a reason why the Warden even bothered to start their journey to defeat the Archdemon to begin with...
maybe there should be the option for the Warden to have never participated in Origins to begin with, or that they just left Ferelden to burn because they didn't feel like bothering to do it alone...
You don't like my possible explanation for why an Orlesian Warden is looking for Morrigan. That's fine. Make up your own. If you can't, that's not a failing with the game, it's a failing of your own... Just as it'd be a personal failing, rather than the game's, if a player can't come up with a reason why the Warden even bothered to start their journey to defeat the Archdemon to begin with...
There's no reason to get sour, my friend. I'm simply saying that, while the motivation for the main hero to be involved in the main story of Origin is well-build, the reason for the OW to be involved in Witch Hunt seems rather preposterous.
Besides, lots of events still take place without the main character being involved if he doesn't have a reason for being involved in them: the Eluvian is still being found and shattered even if the Warden is not dalish, the Aeducan brother still gets exiled even if the Warden is not of noble dwarven origin. Would you think the Warden should be involved in all these events just because he is our character? Things happen even if the hero is not involved and sometimes the hero can choose not to be involved: he can choose not to recruit characters, why can't he choose to keep his end of the bargain and not pursue Morrigan, for instance? I can't understand why are we all ok with that, honestly. It was part of the agreement, in case you did the dark ritual with her.
There's no reason to get sour, my friend. I'm simply saying that, while the motivation for the main hero to be involved in the main story of Origin is well-build, the reason for the OW to be involved in Witch Hunt seems rather preposterous.
Besides, lots of events still take place without the main character being involved if he doesn't have a reason for being involved in them: the Eluvian is still being found and shattered even if the Warden is not dalish, the Aeducan brother still gets exiled even if the Warden is not of noble dwarven origin. Would you think the Warden should be involved in all these events just because he is our character? Things happen even if the hero is not involved and sometimes the hero can choose not to be involved: he can choose not to recruit characters, why can't he choose to keep his end of the bargain and not pursue Morrigan, for instance? I can't understand why are we all ok with that, honestly. It was part of the agreement, in case you did the dark ritual with her.
The motivation for the Warden in Origins is only "well built" if one accepts the premise that Ferelden is worth saving... I find it far more preposterous that a non-human Warden would accept that premise, than the idea that the OW would go after Morrigan in Witch Hunt...
And yes, the events in each of the origins happen regardless of who is selected as the main character. And without Duncan present, all the Warden candidates die. But the Urn of Sacred ashes can't be found without the Warden. Eamon can't be saved without the Warden. No King is named in Orzammar and the Dalish/Werewolf situation isn't resolved without the Warden. Events can take place without the Warden... But that doesn't mean the Warden isn't required for the important ones...
As for Morrigan, I find it interesting you think the Warden Commander(if surviving the DR) would not choose to look for Morrigan when reports appear saying she's in Ferelden. Does your Warden Commander find Morrigan to be completely incompetent? That she has no idea how to hide or keep her identity/location secret, and that she'd fail spectacularly if she ever tried? Reports of Morrigan going through the Wilds made it's way to the Warden Commander because Morrigan wanted to be found... The question should never have been "Why does the Warden Commander go after Morrigan?" The question should have been "Why does Morrigan leave enough clues to her presence and allow herself to be found?" The answer she gives: So she can deliver her warning about Flemeth...
The motivation for the Warden in Origins is only "well built" if one accepts the premise that Ferelden is worth saving... I find it far more preposterous that a non-human Warden would accept that premise, than the idea that the OW would go after Morrigan in Witch Hunt...
I don't. I was always satisfied even when plaint a non-human non-friendly warden. He/she has the chance to fight for the safety of elves or dwarves only, and these motivations can be well-reflected in intermediate choices such as poisoning the Urn or not aiding Redcliff. And let's not forget the final "boons". You always have a choice and you can discuss with Alistair the option of leaving. It worked fine with me. I think there are other games where you feel you are doing stuff just because you have to do stuff: Dragon Age was not one of them to me.
As for Morrigan, I find it interesting you think the Warden Commander(if surviving the DR) would not choose to look for Morrigan when reports appear saying she's in Ferelden. Does your Warden Commander find Morrigan to be completely incompetent? That she has no idea how to hide or keep her identity/location secret, and that she'd fail spectacularly if she ever tried? Reports of Morrigan going through the Wilds made it's way to the Warden Commander because Morrigan wanted to be found... The question should never have been "Why does the Warden Commander go after Morrigan?" The question should have been "Why does Morrigan leave enough clues to her presence and allow herself to be found?" The answer she gives: So she can deliver her warning about Flemeth...
Here's what I think in matter of role-playing.
Wardens fight darkspawn, as Duncan tries desperatly to teach everybody at the very beginning of Origins. And while the Warden Commander has ruling obligations to Amaranthine, fighting darkspawn can still be his/her only objective: that's why you can choose not to protect the land and, ultimately, to let the city burn and save the keep. I don't see one single reason why he/she should take what you consider to be Morrigan's bait... and it is, really? Morrigan is not pleased that you found her, after you found her. She says, and I quote literally, "We had a deal. I save your life, and in return you leave me be. Why should I answer any of your questions now?". And in my opinion she is right, by the way. The option "you wanted to be found" is not reflected in any line of dialogue, as far as I remember, so you'll forgive me if I don't find it consistent with what actually happens. Besides, should the OW hunt down all possible former companions of the Hero? Should he/she follow Leliana in her hunt for Marjolene, for instance? Or hunt down Sten and Zevran? What about the dog? They had pretty much the same involvement since, let me remind you, if the warden is dead this means that he/she didn't do the dark ritual. So why bother Morrigan?
Still, I think it's pointless for us to discuss it further: I see we both are very firm in our position. 
"Your post as Warden-Commander of Ferelden has been filled with challenges and difficulties. As an Orlesian, the local nobility in Amaranthine have given you a frosty reception. Weisshaupt has provided little direct assistance but has recently promised more aid if you complete one small task.During the last Blight, the hero of Ferelden worked with a purported witch of the Kocari Wilds: Morrigan. The role she and her mother, Flemeth, played in the Blight has caused a great deal of concern to the First Warden. Although scarce on details, the First Warden is offering considerable support if you find Morrigan and acquire some information. What information you need to attain, though, is frustratingly vague. "-Codex for the OW who plays Witch HuntTL:DR The First Warden is worried about Flemeths (a legendary abomination) and Morrigans (spawn of the legend) involvement with the Blight.This might be because of Flemeths warning before Ostagar, that she saved the Warden, that Morrigan was sent to accompany the Warden, that Morrigan was spotted entering/exiting the Wardens chamber before the battle of the Archdemon or just the fact that a legend like Flemeth was involved in the story at all.So he sends the local errand-boy/girl from Orlais to investigate. That's why the Orlesian Warden goes looking for Morrigan. And if the Orlesian warden refused, the First Warden sent Jaden (And you don't want that :C).
That has to be the first in-game explanation I hear: thank you.
Still, I don't find the option being appropriately reflected in the actual game...
I have a suggestion re the OW: add a generic tile to Awakening indicating that the First sent a Warden from Orlais to head the Order in Amaranthine. The flip side would be one saying that you have been promoted to Warden-Commander of Ferelden.
It's not a perfect solution but it at least helps to clarify your world-state involving the Dark Ritual or Ultimate Sacrifice. It doesn't have to be a permanent solution, I know a lot of people won't be satisfied until they can import their OW but it's something I can live with. And I spent a significant amount of time making her gorgeous.
What do you think? (I have suggested this to the devs).
Even if the Warden doesn't recruit Shale, they still went to Honnaleath and "saved" the town and the people in it(and dealt with Kitty in some manner). The Warden still participates in the events, regardless of the outcome. Just like Awakening, just like Witch Hunt, and just like Origins itself... Without the Warden(Orlesian or otherwise) looking for her, Morrigan has no reason to leave the book. Not least because no one ever makes it to the Eluvian to find her without the Warden's participation, and she's not the type to waste anything(which is what leaving the book with no one present would be)...
And maybe there should be the option for the Warden to have never participated in Origins to begin with, or that they just left Ferelden to burn because they didn't feel like bothering to do it alone...
You don't like my possible explanation for why an Orlesian Warden is looking for Morrigan. That's fine. Make up your own. If you can't, that's not a failing with the game, it's a failing of your own... Just as it'd be a personal failing, rather than the game's, if a player can't come up with a reason why the Warden even bothered to start their journey to defeat the Archdemon to begin with...
On the first point, going after Shale was the sole purpose in going to that village. Yes, I know you still have to actually do the recruitment, but there was no other purpose for the Warden being there.
The second point is a pathetic excuse for any problem a story might have. Events and motives must make sense. Why would an Orlesian Warden seek out this person to whom he had no connection and little if any knowledge? We are not supposed to have to make up the story.
But the Urn of Sacred ashes can't be found without the Warden. Eamon can't be saved without the Warden. No King is named in Orzammar and the Dalish/Werewolf situation isn't resolved without the Warden. Events can take place without the Warden... But that doesn't mean the Warden isn't required for the important ones...
Darkspawn chronicles dlc would disagree with you
Darkspawn chronicles dlc would disagree with you
Darkspawn chronicles is canon now? Why isn't there a choice in the Keep saying "darkspawn destroyed Ferelden, the fifth blight is ongoing"?
Darkspawn chronicles is canon now? Why isn't there a choice in the Keep saying "darkspawn destroyed Ferelden, the fifth blight is ongoing"?
DAI Indoctrination ending.
I have a suggestion re the OW: add a generic tile to Awakening indicating that the First sent a Warden from Orlais to head the Order in Amaranthine. The flip side would be one saying that you have been promoted to Warden-Commander of Ferelden.
It's not a perfect solution but it at least helps to clarify your world-state involving the Dark Ritual or Ultimate Sacrifice. It doesn't have to be a permanent solution, I know a lot of people won't be satisfied until they can import their OW but it's something I can live with. And I spent a significant amount of time making her gorgeous.
What do you think? (I have suggested this to the devs).
like you said it's not perfect but it's far better than no tile at all. honestly, i dont know why the OW was ever such a sticking point. Just add the tile and let me tellyou who it was. since there's no save importing it's just a matter of in-game title (unless they just go with "warden") and (if I get my wish) which face I make.
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