190 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I expect DA4 to completely drop most connections to past games, the Inquisitor may be involved without an appearance, and head off to the north of Thedas. The only thing they'll probably keep is Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB.

Because the point of moving on to a new protagonist with each game isn't to drag the old one behind us as we go. The only reason Hawke's returning is because her story was supposed to be followed up but never was. I hope they resolve that "Warden/Hawke is missing" plot here once and for all so people can just let it go and move on to new stories.

I like DA acknowledging my previous choices, but I buy each new game expecting a powerful fairly standalone NEW story, not to spend three dozen hours revisiting old plot lines.

I've never really understood the pining for the Warden and inability to move onto new things.

[New Kid]

I've never really understood the pining for the Warden and inability to move onto new things.

Honesty, with the resources it what take to pull off a perfect appearance of the warden, I would rather it went towards something new.

[Fardreamer]

I've never really understood the pining for the Warden and inability to move onto new things.

 

If you've never understood it, you've clearly not read all the reasons in this thread.  There are several very good reason why people can't simple "move on" and it's mainly due to BW leaving the door open on purpose.

[Ayleid]

Tbh the only way people will forget about the warden is if inquisition turns out to be in DA:O's level ...

If it's that good people will forget the past and bioware will find their redemption 

Most people want their warden back cause he/she was a better hero than hawke, even without a voice and DA:O was much better overall. The nostalgia factor kicks in as well.

In order to get over from the past you need something better in the present 

[Kinsz]

When Alistair shows up in DA2 , teagan tells him the hero of ferelden is waiting on him back home ( for those whose warden lived ) , for those whose warden marries him teagan tells him " we best get back you know the queen is waiting on you" and then alistair replies with something like " im not scared of her just because she killed an archdemon" , that was in Act 3 mind you.

[pinkjellybeans]

Did either of you read the original post?  If you made the Ultimate Sacrifice, then the Orlesian Warden takes over for the events of Awakening, Witch Hunt, and Golems of Amgarrak.  That's why we keep referring to a returning character as the Warden and not the Hero of Fereldon. 

 

That's great your Warden has closure doing the US, but since Leliana mentioned a Warden at the end of DA2, she was obviously was referring to the OW.  Sooo, again... BIG PLOT DEVICE LEFT HANING!!!

 

That's why I added to my post:

 

People keep saying 'but those who sacrificed their wardens still have their warden commander'. For those of us who created a new warden, (s)he has nothing to do with the hero of Ferelden and obviously is not as important as the hero. Bioware would have to make two entirely different stories for both characters to appear in the game and I can't see that happening. Not to mention what people already pointed out:

 

There's just too many possibilities for Warden's future to include him/her in a meaningful way.

 

They would have to transpire all those possibilities into Inquisition otherwise they are ignoring player's choices. And from what I gathered from the comments it seems to me that yes, most people are referring to the warden as the hero of Ferelden and not the Orlesian commander.

[Conquerthecity]

I hope we find the Warden's body in DA:I, with a farewell note to their LI or something. 

[Revan Reborn]

I expect DA4 to completely drop most connections to past games, the Inquisitor may be involved without an appearance, and head off to the north of Thedas. The only thing they'll probably keep is Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB.

Because the point of moving on to a new protagonist with each game isn't to drag the old one behind us as we go. The only reason Hawke's returning is because her story was supposed to be followed up but never was. I hope they resolve that "Warden/Hawke is missing" plot here once and for all so people can just let it go and move on to new stories.

I like DA acknowledging my previous choices, but I buy each new game expecting a powerful fairly standalone NEW story, not to spend three dozen hours revisiting old plot lines.

I've never really understood the pining for the Warden and inability to move onto new things.

While I do not necessarily disagree and change can be good, there is something to be said about maintaining tradition and even seeing a protagonist or companions grow over subsequent games. We can take the Mass Effect Trilogy as a perfect example. Regardless of what one's thoughts are of the ending, it's irrefutable that Shepard's story is easily one of the greatest and most memorable ever done in the industry.

 

It's unlikely Mass Effect would have been as popular as it was had they not continued Shepard's story and shown not only how he grew, but how those around him and his choices changed the entirety of the experience as well. I believe it was because of the success of the Mass Effect Trilogy that really made people see the strengths of staying with one protagonist over a period of several games. While I thought DAO, DA2, and hopefully DAI are fantastic games with great characters and stories in their own right, they feel somewhat disjointed and disconnected as I'm constantly having new protagonists that must familiarize themselves with the world and the people in it.

 

I never had that issue with Shepard. I had a history from ME1. I had a history from ME2. All of those choices and my character grew to the peak in ME3. That is not something you can do when you are constantly swapping to new protagonists. Again, I think there are potential benefits to taking on a new protagonist and getting a different perspective or story, but I also feel from a continuity and engaging perspective it's not as strong as the ME approach.

[Aurok]

All of the best Wardens are long dead.

[wcholcombe]

I don't actually get the fascination with what happened to our previous characters.  If there is some little reference saying that the warden retired to the shores of some tropical island great, if it says he died in the deep roads great, if we never really hear anything else about him great.

 

Seriously, most games once they end I don't really concern myself with what happened to the protagonist moving forward.

 

In not a single Legend of Zelda game, fallout game, dragon warrior game, baldurs gate, NWN, Mario Bros, etc etc etc did I ever in any way shape or form worry about what happened to my character after it was over.  If something showed up in a sequel referencing it, great fan service, but I never expected it.

 

 

Some of this may be due to my Warden manning up and ultimate sacrificing himself like a true hero but anyway.

[Battlebloodmage]

I wish they should kill off the warden and get it over with.

[Revan Reborn]

I don't actually get the fascination with what happened to our previous characters.  If there is some little reference saying that the warden retired to the shores of some tropical island great, if it says he died in the deep roads great, if we never really hear anything else about him great.

 

Seriously, most games once they end I don't really concern myself with what happened to the protagonist moving forward.

 

In not a single Legend of Zelda game, fallout game, dragon warrior game, baldurs gate, NWN, Mario Bros, etc etc etc did I ever in any way shape or form worry about what happened to my character after it was over.  If something showed up in a sequel referencing it, great fan service, but I never expected it.

 

 

Some of this may be due to my Warden manning up and ultimate sacrificing himself like a true hero but anyway.

BioWare has a history of maintaining continuity and events between games. This was most apparent with the Mass Effect Trilogy, where we played the same protagonist three times. To compare this to Legend of Zelda, as you suggested, is ridiculous as every game takes place in an alternate universe and an alternate Link. Continuity isn't possible and wouldn't make sense.

 

We can even use The Witcher Trilogy or even the Batman: Arkham series, which have used the same protagonists throughout each game. This return to these established characters allows us to grow and change with them, as their environment and those they meet affect them in profound ways. That is the strength of maintaining one protagonist rather than constantly jumping between different ones.

 

Look at Star Wars. Look at Lord of the Rings. Any major franchise worth mentioning generally has a story that continues through multiple films/games where we see the protagonist grow and develop over the period of the entire story. As I stated with Mass Effect earlier, BioWare already has a history of this. It certainly doesn't help when they are constantly reminding us of our choices and our protagonists that we used in the past.

 

Is it so hard to understand why some might actually want to pick up the sword as the Warden one last time, not only to see what has happened, but to see what his fate will ultimately be? *Assuming you did not make the Ultimate Sacrifice.*

[Itkovian]

So now we're going to see a return of Hawke in DA:I... but where is the Warden?  He needs to be brought back in some way, because his story needs closure.  It is ridiculous to think that a character as influential and powerful as the Warden is simply not present for the world shattering events of Inquistion.

 

Why? What is the need for the Warden to be brought back?

 

Hawke makes complete sense, since the whole point of DA2's narrative was Cassandra learning from Varric what happened to Hawke and trying to find him to help fix the mage rebellion. Considering both Cassandra and Varric are important companions in DAI, it's very fitting that there is some sort of resolution to Cassandra's "quest" to find the Champion.

 

But the Warden? The Warden had no involvement in the events of DAI or the current crisis, so any "return" would just be on the basis of him/her being an heroic figure who wouldn't stand idly by and do nothing when the world is in peril.

 

And quite frankly, I find that basis rather weak. There are plenty of reasons why the Warden wouldn't be involved in this current crisis, or at least not involved in a level that requires him/her to somehow appear in DAI. There are PLENTY of reasons why the Warden wouldn't appear in DAI. This can range from not being in any of DAI's areas, to having his/her own problems to deal with, to not caring about the current crisis (which I'm sure would fit several versions of the Warden).

 

For example, maybe the Warden is off in Tevinter on some Grey Warden mission, and so is in the wrong place at the wrong time to fight the current threat. That's not to say the Warden is sitting idly by, but there's only so much the Warden could do in such a situation (aside from saving lives and holding back demons), and only the Inquisitor is able to truly resolve this crisis. And since the Warden is in a far-off land, we don't get to see him/her in DAI.

[wcholcombe]

BioWare has a history of maintaining continuity and events between games. This was most apparent with the Mass Effect Trilogy, where we played the same protagonist three times. To compare this to Legend of Zelda, as you suggested, is ridiculous as every game takes place in an alternate universe and an alternate Link. Continuity isn't possible and wouldn't make sense.

 

We can even use The Witcher Trilogy or even the Batman: Arkham series, which have used the same protagonists throughout each game. This return to these established characters allows us to grow and change with them, as their environment and those they meet affect them in profound ways. That is the strength of maintaining one protagonist rather than constantly jumping between different ones.

 

Look at Star Wars. Look at Lord of the Rings. Any major franchise worth mentioning generally has a story that continues through multiple films/games where we see the protagonist grow and develop over the period of the entire story. As I stated with Mass Effect earlier, BioWare already has a history of this. It certainly doesn't help when they are constantly reminding us of our choices and our protagonists that we used in the past.

 

Is it so hard to understand why some might actually want to pick up the sword as the Warden one last time, not only to see what has happened, but to see what his fate will ultimately be? *Assuming you did not make the Ultimate Sacrifice.*

Yes, but DA doesn't keep the same protagonist. Fallout takes place in the same game world, FO1 and FO2 take place in the exact same area and the protagonist from FO1 doesn't show up in FO2.

 

The continuity in DA is provided by the world, the lore, and the party members and periphery characters that carry over, not by a central protagonist.

 

Actually yes it is hard to understand the level of drama people invest in this question.  The Warden's story is done.  The very fact that a large portion of the game playing community heroically sacrificed their warden prevents what you want to happen from happening.  Bioware isn't going to make a game where one side gets this awesome return of a character they heavily invested in and the other gets some "orlesian commander" they have no connection to.

 

Look, Suikoden was a game that was awesome at including your previous protagonist if you had them , but it was never like this huge outcry that the fanbase deserved it because their story wasn't finished. Yes the warden's story is done.  The only thing worse then this repeated demand for something more, would be if they actually gave the mob what they wanted, and then there would be even more outcry because BW ruined "my character".

 

I am already expecting plenty of those responses from DAI with Hawke and from people who thought their Hawke or Warden lived happily every after with whatever romantic interest they had at the moment at the end of the last game.

[Heimdall]

If you've never understood it, you've clearly not read all the reasons in this thread.  There are several very good reason why people can't simple "move on" and it's mainly due to BW leaving the door open on purpose.

And I think that was an ill considered decision. But the desire to see them back goes beyond that, I've seen people go on and on about "but when will we get the Warden back!?" and some bizarre knee jerk rejection of the idea of a new protagonist. I've seen people borderline obsessed with the idea of playing as the Warden again, desperate to have them back even if Bioware hadn't left the door open.

It's like people just can't accept the idea of their Warden not being the center of the universe like Shepard.

[wcholcombe]

If you've never understood it, you've clearly not read all the reasons in this thread.  There are several very good reason why people can't simple "move on" and it's mainly due to BW leaving the door open on purpose.

See, I never got this.

 

"The warden is missing" means as much to me that they got tired of dealing with everything and either took a stroll into the deep roads, or decided they wanted to live alone away from people. It doesn't mean squat about something happened to them.  I don't need closure. Closure was the end of DAO whether I US'd my warden or DR'd or let Allistaire or Loghain kill the AD.

[Heimdall]

While I do not necessarily disagree and change can be good, there is something to be said about maintaining tradition and even seeing a protagonist or companions grow over subsequent games. We can take the Mass Effect Trilogy as a perfect example. Regardless of what one's thoughts are of the ending, it's irrefutable that Shepard's story is easily one of the greatest and most memorable ever done in the industry.

It's unlikely Mass Effect would have been as popular as it was had they not continued Shepard's story and shown not only how he grew, but how those around him and his choices changed the entirety of the experience as well. I believe it was because of the success of the Mass Effect Trilogy that really made people see the strengths of staying with one protagonist over a period of several games. While I thought DAO, DA2, and hopefully DAI are fantastic games with great characters and stories in their own right, they feel somewhat disjointed and disconnected as I'm constantly having new protagonists that must familiarize themselves with the world and the people in it.

I never had that issue with Shepard. I had a history from ME1. I had a history from ME2. All of those choices and my character grew to the peak in ME3. That is not something you can do when you are constantly swapping to new protagonists. Again, I think there are potential benefits to taking on a new protagonist and getting a different perspective or story, but I also feel from a continuity and engaging perspective it's not as strong as the ME approach.

That's just asking Dragon Age to be Mass Effect. I sort of feel like it's missing the point. In Dragon Age, it's a new story with every game. New story, new characters, with the common thread being the mark they leave on the world. The continuity isn't meant to be as strong because it's a different part of the universe. You're not supposed to see them all as the same story.

I won't deny Shepard's story was memorable, and I wouldn't mind another series adopting that format, but it's a different kind of narrative, not necessarily a better one. With Shepard, each game was a chapter in the greater trilogy. The problem was that all that continuity added up, made it increasingly difficult to take into account that build up of choices and it showed in the way they handled things like the Rachni in ME3. It all becomes baggage weighing on later games. The Dragon Age style minimizes this problem by making it a series of stories rather than the story of a series. That's how you have to approach it.

[Heimdall]

Is it so hard to understand why some might actually want to pick up the sword as the Warden one last time, not only to see what has happened, but to see what his fate will ultimately be? *Assuming you did not make the Ultimate Sacrifice.*

Except Dragon Age isn't a single story like Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings, or even Mass Effect. And I got all the closure I needed when my Warden stabbed the Archdemon in the head. Awakening and Witch Hunt were nice bonuses. My problem is that quite a few people seem unwilling to accept that they know the Warden's ultimate fate until they see him/her dead. I for one was happy with "And he wandered off into the hills, never to be seen again".

I don't like that they reopened the issue at the end of DA2, not one bit.

[Jaison1986]

Except Dragon Age isn't a single story like Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings, or even Mass Effect. And I got all the closure I needed when my Warden stabbed the Archdemon in the head. Awakening and Witch Hunt were nice bonuses. My problem is that quite a few people seem unwilling to accept that they know the Warden's ultimate fate until they see him/her dead. I for one was happy with "And he wandered off into the hills, never to be seen again".

I don't like that they reopened the issue at the end of DA2, not one bit.

 

Well, that's you. I want the warden to return, and not because the warden is the center of attention of the plot, but because they can still have relevance to the story. You might be happy, but I'm not, and so are other people. Or are you saying that just because you are content with what you have other people shouldn't want more themselves?

[Chari]

Just because your Wardens are dead it doesn't mean everyone's Warden is dead. As DA:A showed us, our dear PCs are doing just fine and being as badass as ever. And logically assuming they're still being the same badass as always were. Orlesian-Commander is also pretty cool. That's why it makes little sense for them to disappear like this. Maybe instead of doing this whole "They're gone for some reason i dunno" they could say sth like "they're busy dealing with their new fortress/new team/royal stuff/helping the Fereldan" etc and killing some terrifying monsters as well" which is solid enough so that we have a general idea but also vague enough that we can fill the holes with our own ideas of how our Wardens are dealing with stuff

Just because you don't care about the Warden doesn't mean other people don't. A lot of us do, it was our first chapter in Dragon Age or even just Bioware fandom. We love our Wardens, hence when others treat them like ****, we get defensive

P.S. Also I was pretty disappointed with Fallout 1 hero/ine's fate but back then there was no save data transfer from a game to game so I understood why it was a thing. Bioware are famous for save data passing from game to game on the other hand

[AlanC9]

BioWare has a history of maintaining continuity and events between games. This was most apparent with the Mass Effect Trilogy, where we played the same protagonist three times.

They also have a history of not doing this. BG2 imported your character but trampled on his decisions --- for instance, even if you killed Minsc because he was a deranged idiot, there's your friend in the cell next to yours when BG2 starts. Bio promised to let us import the BG2 character into NWN, then reneged -- OK, not really their fault since the 3E shift made this unworkable, but they shouldn't have promised it. The PC from the NWN OC simply disappears and is never heard from again. JE didn't have a sequel. And then there's KotOR....

[l7986]

but where is the Warden?

My personal headcanon is that Leliana has a sex dungeon and keeps my Warden locked up there as her personal pleasure toy.

 

Seriously though I think the Elder One had his agents either attempt to abduct or otherwise neutralize the Warden and Hawke before he returned in an effort from keeping the two of them from joining forces and ruining his plans.

[Zets]

I'm fine with just hearing about "The Warden"(HoF/WC)". I'm just wondering why people say that The Warden is irrelevant to DA:I when Grey Wardens are in every blam-ng video trailer. If there is indeed a problem with the Wardens (maybe Corypheus?), It seems logical for the First Warden to order "The Warden" to check it out considering we have Ferelden as playable area. Or maybe have a quest for a search party if he/she is missing.

[Catche Jagger]

I would have been fine if Bioware had decided to not ever bring up the Warden after DA:O or simply say that they are of somewhere doing Warden-y things, but instead they've turned the Warden into a loose plot thread by saying that they've "mysteriously vanished". Now that this mystery has been established, it should be solved. If it is simply dropped I will be more than a little disappointed.

[90s Luke]

Well, that's you. I want the warden to return, and not because the warden is the center of attention of the plot, but because they can still have relevance to the story. You might be happy, but I'm not, and so are other people. Or are you saying that just because you are content with what you have other people shouldn't want more themselves?

 

Does story relevance require a physical appearance, though? Morrigan wasn't in DA2, but it was fairly obvious that she was up to something (based on Flemeth's actions in the early part of the game).

 

Needless to say (because many others have already said this and have given completely legitimate reasons for it), but the Warden having a physical appearance in another DA game would be problematic.

 

I personally think BioWare found the most reasonable compromise with the Warden's non-physical appearance and background role. He or she is still a participant in Thedosian events, but never encounters the Inquisitor. I don't see a problem with that. There are several other prominent people in Thedas that the Inquisitor is unlikely to ever meet.

 

Given what we know (or at least suspect) about the Grey Wardens post-Legacy and post-Last Flight, there are unfortunate implications for our Warden anyway....