190 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

Yes, but DA doesn't keep the same protagonist. Fallout takes place in the same game world, FO1 and FO2 take place in the exact same area and the protagonist from FO1 doesn't show up in FO2.

 

The continuity in DA is provided by the world, the lore, and the party members and periphery characters that carry over, not by a central protagonist.

 

Actually yes it is hard to understand the level of drama people invest in this question.  The Warden's story is done.  The very fact that a large portion of the game playing community heroically sacrificed their warden prevents what you want to happen from happening.  Bioware isn't going to make a game where one side gets this awesome return of a character they heavily invested in and the other gets some "orlesian commander" they have no connection to.

 

Look, Suikoden was a game that was awesome at including your previous protagonist if you had them , but it was never like this huge outcry that the fanbase deserved it because their story wasn't finished. Yes the warden's story is done.  The only thing worse then this repeated demand for something more, would be if they actually gave the mob what they wanted, and then there would be even more outcry because BW ruined "my character".

 

I am already expecting plenty of those responses from DAI with Hawke and from people who thought their Hawke or Warden lived happily every after with whatever romantic interest they had at the moment at the end of the last game.

DA is a BioWare franchise. So is ME. It is purely up to the discretion of the writers and lead designers what direction they want to go. If DG felt compelled to make a recurring experience with the same protagonist in DA, it would happen without a doubt. ME alone proved that the method is extremely effective and successful.

 

I never said there wasn't continuity. What I did say was that the level of continuity wasn't as strong if you had to start from scratch with a new protagonist who knew nothing of current events or the history. That is always an issue with DA games constantly having to remind the protagonist of the past merely because they didn't participate in such events.

 

Feel free to provide evidence where "a large portion of the game playing community" chose the ultimate sacrifice for their Wardens. On the contrary, I'd say most Wardens likely survived either through the Dark Ritual or sacrificing Loghain (most likely) or Alistair (less likely). Even Awakening was really tailored toward the Hero of Ferelden, as the Orlesian Warden's purpose and story was not nearly as convincing or compelling. I think you may be surprised how very few players likely sacrificed their Wardens.

 

As far as Hawke is concerned, his role in DA2 was merely setting up for events in DAI. If people didn't realize he was coming back with a major role, then they didn't pay enough attention in DA2. All that game served to do was set up his origin and the beginning of the Inquisition. Hawke's true purpose is tied to the Inquisitor in DAI.

 

I really believe this "BioWare ruined my character" argument is a weak one to make for the very same reason people cry that Leliana is alive and has a large role in Inquisition. A minority of players killed Leliana, and it's likely a minority also killed their Warden. Regardless of what BioWare does, someone will be outraged regardless, which is a silly reason not to do something.

 

As for the Warden's story being over? I would have agreed more so if Awakening, Witch Hunt, and DA2 had not taken place. BioWare left many questions unanswered, of which hopefully most will be addressed in DAI. Otherwise, BioWare will be doing the fan base a disservice to not bring an end to his story and constantly move on to new protagonists.

 

That's just asking Dragon Age to be Mass Effect. I sort of feel like it's missing the point. In Dragon Age, it's a new story with every game. New story, new characters, with the common thread being the mark they leave on the world. The continuity isn't meant to be as strong because it's a different part of the universe. You're not supposed to see them all as the same story.

I won't deny Shepard's story was memorable, and I wouldn't mind another series adopting that format, but it's a different kind of narrative, not necessarily a better one. With Shepard, each game was a chapter in the greater trilogy. The problem was that all that continuity added up, made it increasingly difficult to take into account that build up of choices and it showed in the way they handled things like the Rachni in ME3. It all becomes baggage weighing on later games. The Dragon Age style minimizes this problem by making it a series of stories rather than the story of a series. That's how you have to approach it.

You missed my point entirely then. It doesn't matter what game we use (I used ME, TW, BA as a variety of examples). The point is continuity with a main protagonist can lead to a higher appreciation and more complex storytelling than a game with a brand new protagonist every time. I talked extensively about Mass Effect because it is BioWare's most successful original IP. DA2 and DAI have also borrowed heavily from ME using the voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, morality/personality, etc.

 

This isn't a different part of the universe... This is the same Thedas a decade later with the same characters... We just have a different protagonist in the mix than previous games, which again is the issue. I'm not suggesting BioWare shouldn't create new protagonists at all, but at the same time there is a lot to gain and learn if you at least reuse the same protagonist in more than one game. Overall I'd argue the fan base actually enjoys a game more when it feels like their choices and their character carry over to the next title. That's part of the reason I believe Mass Effect was so successful was because Shepard continued.

 

There will be continuity and progression issues regardless if its the same protagonist or not. We can use Leliana as a perfect example. BioWare will make mistakes and that's unavoidable, regardless of their method.

 

Except Dragon Age isn't a single story like Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings, or even Mass Effect. And I got all the closure I needed when my Warden stabbed the Archdemon in the head. Awakening and Witch Hunt were nice bonuses. My problem is that quite a few people seem unwilling to accept that they know the Warden's ultimate fate until they see him/her dead. I for one was happy with "And he wandered off into the hills, never to be seen again".

I don't like that they reopened the issue at the end of DA2, not one bit.

I was fine with how the Warden's story was concluded after DAO. BioWare merely added fuel to the fire when they added Awakening with the Architect and Witch Hunt with Morrigan. The ending of DA2 certainly didn't help, but that's largely why they should bring a close to the Warden's chapter and then we can move on. Hopefully a majority of the answers will be addressed in DAI, but it's unlikely everything will be. Out of all of BioWare's games, I felt they have struggled with truly ending a story, perhaps out of greed, with Dragon Age games. In KotOR I and Mass Effect, things were final. Sequels weren't necessary and really weren't posed. There's always ambiguity and questions left lingering in DA it seems.

[Revan Reborn]

They also have a history of not doing this. BG2 imported your character but trampled on his decisions --- for instance, even if you killed Minsc because he was a deranged idiot, there's your friend in the cell next to yours when BG2 starts. Bio promised to let us import the BG2 character into NWN, then reneged -- OK, not really their fault since the 3E shift made this unworkable, but they shouldn't have promised it. The PC from the NWN OC simply disappears and is never heard from again. JE didn't have a sequel. And then there's KotOR....

First and foremost, you are using games that are more than a decade old as a standard for BioWare now. Secondly, Jade Empire didn't have a sequel due to an underwhelming performance and BioWare refused to do KotOR II so they could do JE, in which Obsidian was tasked with the job. Either way, we are talking about the modern-day BioWare, and their most successful and popular franchise of Mass Effect by far. Dragon Age has been littered with issues and setbacks, and constantly swapping protagonists likely didn't help.

 

I would have been fine if Bioware had decided to not ever bring up the Warden after DA:O or simply say that they are of somewhere doing Warden-y things, but instead they've turned the Warden into a loose plot thread by saying that they've "mysteriously vanished". Now that this mystery has been established, it should be solved. If it is simply dropped I will be more than a little disappointed.

I agree. Part of the issue with the Warden is by the end of DAO and DAA, he had easily become one of the most important and powerful individuals in all of Ferelden. For him to just "vanish" due to his obligations to Ferelden as well as to the Grey Wardens creates all sorts of questions left unanswered.

 

Does story relevance require a physical appearance, though? Morrigan wasn't in DA2, but it was fairly obvious that she was up to something (based on Flemeth's actions in the early part of the game).

 

Needless to say (because many others have already said this and have given completely legitimate reasons for it), but the Warden having a physical appearance in another DA game would be problematic.

 

I personally think BioWare found the most reasonable compromise with the Warden's non-physical appearance and background role. He or she is still a participant in Thedosian events, but never encounters the Inquisitor. I don't see a problem with that. There are several other prominent people in Thedas that the Inquisitor is unlikely to ever meet.

 

Given what we know (or at least suspect) about the Grey Wardens post-Legacy and post-Last Flight, there are unfortunate implications for our Warden anyway....

Morrigan wasn't a main protagonist. She was a companion.

 

The largest hurdle would be the voice, of which BioWare could just approach it the same way they did with the Inquisitor. Give people a choice between two voices and people will choose the one they prefer.

 

The Warden is the Hero of Ferelden. He could also either be the leader of Ferelden's Army or the King of the entire nation depending on your choices. Whichever position he has, he has significant clout and influence over the events happening in Ferelden alone. Considering half of DAI takes place in Ferelden, and the world is falling apart, it really doesn't not make sense at all that he would be absent, unless for a very good reason.

 

Also I doubt BioWare would be foolish enough to just kill off the Warden without considering the fan base.

[sylvanaerie]

First and foremost, you are using games that are more than a decade old as a standard for BioWare now. Secondly, Jade Empire didn't have a sequel due to an underwhelming performance and BioWare refused to do KotOR II so they could do JE, in which Obsidian was tasked with the job. Either way, we are talking about the modern-day BioWare, and their most successful and popular franchise of Mass Effect by far. Dragon Age has been littered with issues and setbacks, and constantly swapping protagonists likely didn't help.

 

I agree. Part of the issue with the Warden is by the end of DAO and DAA, he had easily become one of the most important and powerful individuals in all of Ferelden. For him to just "vanish" due to his obligations to Ferelden as well as to the Grey Wardens creates all sorts of questions left unanswered.

 

Morrigan wasn't a main protagonist. She was a companion.

 

The largest hurdle would be the voice, of which BioWare could just approach it the same way they did with the Inquisitor. Give people a choice between two voices and people will choose the one they prefer.

 

The Warden is the Hero of Ferelden. He could also either be the leader of Ferelden's Army or the King of the entire nation depending on your choices. Whichever position he has, he has significant clout and influence over the events happening in Ferelden alone. Considering half of DAI takes place in Ferelden, and the world is falling apart, it really doesn't not make sense at all that he would be absent, unless for a very good reason.

 

Also I doubt BioWare would be foolish enough to just kill off the Warden without considering the fan base.

 

As of the time of Inquisition, he is neither of these.  He disappeared.  If he were in such an important position, people would know where he is, since he'd be leading the army or King.  BTW King I'll buy, but leading the Ferelden army...not so much.  Leading Ferelden wardens, yes, but I'm thinking not the Ferelden army.  

 

Bioware has said we will probably hear about him/her, but just not see the Warden face to face.  

People have to learn to let go and move on.  This isn't Dragon Age: The Warden's Story 2.0, it's Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Meltemph]

DA is a BioWare franchise. So is ME. It is purely up to the discretion of the writers and lead designers what direction they want to go. If DG felt compelled to make a recurring experience with the same protagonist in DA, it would happen without a doubt. ME alone proved that the method is extremely effective and successful.

 

I never said there wasn't continuity. What I did say was that the level of continuity wasn't as strong if you had to start from scratch with a new protagonist who knew nothing of current events or the history. That is always an issue with DA games constantly having to remind the protagonist of the past merely because they didn't participate in such events.

 

Feel free to provide evidence where "a large portion of the game playing community" chose the ultimate sacrifice for their Wardens. On the contrary, I'd say most Wardens likely survived either through the Dark Ritual or sacrificing Loghain (most likely) or Alistair (less likely). Even Awakening was really tailored toward the Hero of Ferelden, as the Orlesian Warden's purpose and story was not nearly as convincing or compelling. I think you may be surprised how very few players likely sacrificed their Wardens.

 

As far as Hawke is concerned, his role in DA2 was merely setting up for events in DAI. If people didn't realize he was coming back with a major role, then they didn't pay enough attention in DA2. All that game served to do was set up his origin and the beginning of the Inquisition. Hawke's true purpose is tied to the Inquisitor in DAI.

 

I really believe this "BioWare ruined my character" argument is a weak one to make for the very same reason people cry that Leliana is alive and has a large role in Inquisition. A minority of players killed Leliana, and it's likely a minority also killed their Warden. Regardless of what BioWare does, someone will be outraged regardless, which is a silly reason not to do something.

 

As for the Warden's story being over? I would have agreed more so if Awakening, Witch Hunt, and DA2 had not taken place. BioWare left many questions unanswered, of which hopefully most will be addressed in DAI. Otherwise, BioWare will be doing the fan base a disservice to not bring an end to his story and constantly move on to new protagonists.

 

You missed my point entirely then. It doesn't matter what game we use (I used ME, TW, BA as a variety of examples). The point is continuity with a main protagonist can lead to a higher appreciation and more complex storytelling than a game with a brand new protagonist every time. I talked extensively about Mass Effect because it is BioWare's most successful original IP. DA2 and DAI have also borrowed heavily from ME using the voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, morality/personality, etc.

 

This isn't a different part of the universe... This is the same Thedas a decade later with the same characters... We just have a different protagonist in the mix than previous games, which again is the issue. I'm not suggesting BioWare shouldn't create new protagonists at all, but at the same time there is a lot to gain and learn if you at least reuse the same protagonist in more than one game. Overall I'd argue the fan base actually enjoys a game more when it feels like their choices and their character carry over to the next title. That's part of the reason I believe Mass Effect was so successful was because Shepard continued.

 

There will be continuity and progression issues regardless if its the same protagonist or not. We can use Leliana as a perfect example. BioWare will make mistakes and that's unavoidable, regardless of their method.

 

I was fine with how the Warden's story was concluded after DAO. BioWare merely added fuel to the fire when they added Awakening with the Architect and Witch Hunt with Morrigan. The ending of DA2 certainly didn't help, but that's largely why they should bring a close to the Warden's chapter and then we can move on. Hopefully a majority of the answers will be addressed in DAI, but it's unlikely everything will be. Out of all of BioWare's games, I felt they have struggled with truly ending a story, perhaps out of greed, with Dragon Age games. In KotOR I and Mass Effect, things were final. Sequels weren't necessary and really weren't posed. There's always ambiguity and questions left lingering in DA it seems.

I doubt think comparing ME to DA in terms of better plot is something that makes a lot of sense to me. ME plot had a lot of issues in it, that I thought were very badly explained and quite nonsensical in execution. ME did good because of gameplay mechanics, characters, with Michael Bay spectacle. I dont think Shep, the reoccurring character was what did it(certainly didnt do it for me). The warden needs to die, imo for those few left who dont have the "closure" they want.

[Revan Reborn]

As of the time of Inquisition, he is neither of these.  He disappeared.  If he were in such an important position, people would know where he is, since he'd be leading the army or King.  BTW King I'll buy, but leading the Ferelden army...not so much.  Leading Ferelden wardens, yes, but I'm thinking not the Ferelden army.  

 

Bioware has said we will probably hear about him/her, but just not see the Warden face to face.  

People have to learn to let go and move on.  This isn't Dragon Age: The Warden's Story 2.0, it's Dragon Age: Inquisition

How do we know he does not retain his rank and titles from DAO and DAA? All we know is that he "vanished" or "disappeared." We really don't know what that means. It could have been intentional. He could have been kidnapped. It's hard to know why he disappeared, and given his position in Ferelden, why this question is even more interesting yet frustrating.

 

As far as leading the Ferelden army, this was the case for my Warden as I made Alistair king and he begged for me to lead his troops. The point still stands regardless of who is king or what you did, the Warden is a crucial piece to the stability and security of Ferelden.

 

The point is BioWare alluded to the Warden's return and importance at the end of DA2. No one is claiming this game is solely about the Warden. What people do want, however, is for their Warden storyline to be brought to a close properly rather than left with more questions than answers.

[Revan Reborn]

I doubt think comparing ME to DA in terms of better plot is something that makes a lot of sense to me. ME plot had a lot of issues in it, that I thought were very badly explained and quite nonsensical in execution. ME did good because of gameplay mechanics, characters, with Michael Bay spectacle. I dont think Shep, the reoccurring character was what did it(certainly didnt do it for me). The warden needs to die, imo for those few left who dont have the "closure" they want.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. While the gameplay in ME was fun, for the most part, it was the story, the characters, and most of all Shepard that made the experience. There would be no Mass Effect without Shepard.

[wcholcombe]

DA is a BioWare franchise. So is ME. It is purely up to the discretion of the writers and lead designers what direction they want to go. If DG felt compelled to make a recurring experience with the same protagonist in DA, it would happen without a doubt. ME alone proved that the method is extremely effective and successful.

 

I never said there wasn't continuity. What I did say was that the level of continuity wasn't as strong if you had to start from scratch with a new protagonist who knew nothing of current events or the history. That is always an issue with DA games constantly having to remind the protagonist of the past merely because they didn't participate in such events.

 

Feel free to provide evidence where "a large portion of the game playing community" chose the ultimate sacrifice for their Wardens. On the contrary, I'd say most Wardens likely survived either through the Dark Ritual or sacrificing Loghain (most likely) or Alistair (less likely). Even Awakening was really tailored toward the Hero of Ferelden, as the Orlesian Warden's purpose and story was not nearly as convincing or compelling. I think you may be surprised how very few players likely sacrificed their Wardens.

 

As far as Hawke is concerned, his role in DA2 was merely setting up for events in DAI. If people didn't realize he was coming back with a major role, then they didn't pay enough attention in DA2. All that game served to do was set up his origin and the beginning of the Inquisition. Hawke's true purpose is tied to the Inquisitor in DAI.

 

I really believe this "BioWare ruined my character" argument is a weak one to make for the very same reason people cry that Leliana is alive and has a large role in Inquisition. A minority of players killed Leliana, and it's likely a minority also killed their Warden. Regardless of what BioWare does, someone will be outraged regardless, which is a silly reason not to do something.

 

As for the Warden's story being over? I would have agreed more so if Awakening, Witch Hunt, and DA2 had not taken place. BioWare left many questions unanswered, of which hopefully most will be addressed in DAI. Otherwise, BioWare will be doing the fan base a disservice to not bring an end to his story and constantly move on to new protagonists.

 

You missed my point entirely then. It doesn't matter what game we use (I used ME, TW, BA as a variety of examples). The point is continuity with a main protagonist can lead to a higher appreciation and more complex storytelling than a game with a brand new protagonist every time. I talked extensively about Mass Effect because it is BioWare's most successful original IP. DA2 and DAI have also borrowed heavily from ME using the voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, morality/personality, etc.

 

This isn't a different part of the universe... This is the same Thedas a decade later with the same characters... We just have a different protagonist in the mix than previous games, which again is the issue. I'm not suggesting BioWare shouldn't create new protagonists at all, but at the same time there is a lot to gain and learn if you at least reuse the same protagonist in more than one game. Overall I'd argue the fan base actually enjoys a game more when it feels like their choices and their character carry over to the next title. That's part of the reason I believe Mass Effect was so successful was because Shepard continued.

 

There will be continuity and progression issues regardless if its the same protagonist or not. We can use Leliana as a perfect example. BioWare will make mistakes and that's unavoidable, regardless of their method.

 

I was fine with how the Warden's story was concluded after DAO. BioWare merely added fuel to the fire when they added Awakening with the Architect and Witch Hunt with Morrigan. The ending of DA2 certainly didn't help, but that's largely why they should bring a close to the Warden's chapter and then we can move on. Hopefully a majority of the answers will be addressed in DAI, but it's unlikely everything will be. Out of all of BioWare's games, I felt they have struggled with truly ending a story, perhaps out of greed, with Dragon Age games. In KotOR I and Mass Effect, things were final. Sequels weren't necessary and really weren't posed. There's always ambiguity and questions left lingering in DA it seems.

DG has said the design concept for the DA series is not to carry over protagonist from game to game. They intentionally since DAO have setout for each game to have a seperate protag. It is one of their design concepts.

 

There were enough people who did the ultimate sacrifice that they intentionally created a magic come back to life button for DAA that wasn't originally planned.  DG said they added it when they realized how many people actually did the US.  He now wishes they hadn't, but the fact remains they did because the number of people it impacted.

 

When did I even bring up Hawke? It does actually make sense to have Hawke in DAI.  And people are scared to death on this forum that BW is going to ruin their character. I think it is idiotic, but some people are going to pitch a fit if Morrigan shows up without the Warden, because they were soul mates or some garbage.  Just like people have already complained that if Hawke shows up they better see whichever LI Hawke decided to shag during DA2, because after all it was true love and they would never separate ever again......

 

Again the main point, I don't care if continued Protagonist does work for other games, they have specific design philosophy with DA since the beginning to not continue protagonist from one game to the next.

[wcholcombe]

How do we know he does not retain his rank and titles from DAO and DAA? All we know is that he "vanished" or "disappeared." We really don't know what that means. It could have been intentional. He could have been kidnapped. It's hard to know why he disappeared, and given his position in Ferelden, why this question is even more interesting yet frustrating.

 

As far as leading the Ferelden army, this was the case for my Warden as I made Alistair king and he begged for me to lead his troops. The point still stands regardless of who is king or what you did, the Warden is a crucial piece to the stability and security of Ferelden.

 

The point is BioWare alluded to the Warden's return and importance at the end of DA2. No one is claiming this game is solely about the Warden. What people do want, however, is for their Warden storyline to be brought to a close properly rather than left with more questions than answers.

How did they elude to it????? Since when is one throw away line by Cassandra or Lelianna about not being able to find the Warden alluding to the importance of that character.....

[Heimdall]

Well, that's you. I want the warden to return, and not because the warden is the center of attention of the plot, but because they can still have relevance to the story. You might be happy, but I'm not, and so are other people. Or are you saying that just because you are content with what you have other people shouldn't want more themselves?

Okay, but what relevance? The biggest argument for the Warden's involvement, namely Morrigan and Leliana's involvement, are driven by variables. I mean, my Warden is very much alive, Morrigan is the mother of his OGB and Leliana was his love interest, but I don't feel a burning need for his involvement. His relevance is only by proxy, via relationships that may not exist.

I'm not saying everyone should be content, I'm saying that too many people have become fixated on the idea of returning to the Warden as something that must happen or should happen with little more reasoning than: "He/She's not dead = Unresolved"

[AmRMa]

The Warden is going to be mentioned or some storyline is going to involve them and that's closure enough for me. I don't need my Warden to show up or have a DAI expansion dedicated to them, they had their whole game and an expansion with a satisfying conclusion until DA2. Hawke didn't really get a conclusion to their story and that needs to be wrapped up because they are more directly involved with what is happening in DAI than the Warden is.

[wcholcombe]

There is also the fact that they aren't going to create some major storyline for a character that a decent amount of the community killed.

 

Just like OGB will never be tantamount to a storyline because unless they DEM some stuff, he doesn't exist in all storylines.

[Meltemph]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. While the gameplay in ME was fun, for the most part, it was the story, the characters, and most of all Shepard that made the experience. There would be no Mass Effect without Shepard.

I thought the setting was what made mass effect. Without the setting there would be no Shepard. I think Shep could have been replaced my a large number of your companions, storywise and it would still work fairly easy. I rarely get attached to the characters I create though, I'm almost always more interested in the setting and the characters that live in that setting(that and the lore). While I think story is important, I thought the main plot was very messy, while the set pieces were fun in the Michael Bay sort of way.

[Revan Reborn]

DG has said the design concept for the DA series is not to carry over protagonist from game to game. They intentionally since DAO have setout for each game to have a seperate protag. It is one of their design concepts.

 

There were enough people who did the ultimate sacrifice that they intentionally created a magic come back to life button for DAA that wasn't originally planned.  DG said they added it when they realized how many people actually did the US.  He now wishes they hadn't, but the fact remains they did because the number of people it impacted.

 

When did I even bring up Hawke? It does actually make sense to have Hawke in DAI.  And people are scared to death on this forum that BW is going to ruin their character. I think it is idiotic, but some people are going to pitch a fit if Morrigan shows up without the Warden, because they were soul mates or some garbage.  Just like people have already complained that if Hawke shows up they better see whichever LI Hawke decided to shag during DA2, because after all it was true love and they would never separate ever again......

 

Again the main point, I don't care if continued Protagonist does work for other games, they have specific design philosophy with DA since the beginning to not continue protagonist from one game to the next.

You are more or less implying that BioWare expected that most people would either do the DR or have Loghain or Alistair make the sacrifice, meaning the Warden lives. You are in a very strange way supporting my argument by saying the Warden is still very much relevant, due to how important he is in Ferelden.

 

From what I've seen primarily, most don't want Hawke in because they hate him for ruining DA2, or something to that effect. Personally, Hawke's story was not complete, and it makes perfect since he would have a crucial role in DAI.

 

That's perfectly fine. If that's going to be the case, don't allude to previous protagonists and their return in future games. End their stories and move on.

 

How did they elude to it????? Since when is one throw away line by Cassandra or Lelianna about not being able to find the Warden alluding to the importance of that character.....

Since the Warden could potentially either be King/Queen of Ferelden, Warden-Commander of Amaranthine, and possibly the leader of Ferelden's army. Yeah, I'd say the Warden is extremely important, given DAI takes place in Orlais and Ferelden. Especially because Cassandra and Leliana (founders of the Inquisition) alluded to his significance, I'd be shocked if this wasn't addressed. BioWare was rather transparent about this.

 

I thought the setting was what made mass effect. Without the setting there would be no Shepard. I think Shep could have been replaced my a large number of your companions, storywise and it would still work fairly easy. I rarely get attached to the characters I create though, I'm almost always more interested in the setting and the characters that live in that setting(that and the lore). While I think story is important, I thought the main plot was very messing, while the set pieces were fun in the Michael Bay sort of way.

We have a difference of opinion on BioWare games then. If I'm looking for an interesting setting or place to explore, I play Skyrim or Fallout. More or less any BGS-made game. If I'm looking for a great story, characters, and a protagonist, I play a BioWare game. If I want something in the middle, I'll probably go towards CDPR and The Witcher. Mass Effect certainly has a fascinating universe, but it was Shepard that ultimately brought it together and made it compelling and meaningful for me.

[Nayawk]

I'm with those that say this isn't really an discussion we can have until we know what happens in DA:I and see how the 'mention but not seen' storyline unfolds.  

[Meltemph]

You are more or less implying that BioWare expected that most people would either do the DR or have Loghain or Alistair make the sacrifice, meaning the Warden lives. You are in a very strange way supporting my argument by saying the Warden is still very much relevant, due to how important he is in Ferelden.

 

From what I've seen primarily, most don't want Hawke in because they hate him for ruining DA2, or something to that effect. Personally, Hawke's story was not complete, and it makes perfect since he would have a crucial role in DAI.

 

That's perfectly fine. If that's going to be the case, don't allude to previous protagonists and their return in future games. End their stories and move on.

 

Since the Warden could potentially either be King/Queen of Ferelden, Warden-Commander of Amaranthine, and possibly the leader of Ferelden's army. Yeah, I'd say the Warden is extremely important, given DAI takes place in Orlais and Ferelden. Especially because Cassandra and Leliana (founders of the Inquisition) alluded to his significance, I'd be shocked if this wasn't addressed. BioWare was rather transparent about this.

 

We have a difference of opinion on BioWare games then. If I'm looking for an interesting setting or place to explore, I play Skyrim or Fallout. More or less any BGS-made game. If I'm looking for a great story, characters, and a protagonist, I play a BioWare game. If I want something in the middle, I'll probably go towards CDPR and The Witcher. Mass Effect certainly has a fascinating universe, but it was Shepard that ultimately brought it together and made it compelling and meaningful for me.

Ya, we def will disagree. I love Elder Scrolls, but because of the lore, much more then the setting. Where as with DA the setting and the lore is the most important thing to me. Where as with ME it was the setting, gameplay, and characters. Thought the plot was relatively weak. Opinions and all that.

[90s Luke]

Morrigan wasn't a main protagonist. She was a companion.

 

The largest hurdle would be the voice, of which BioWare could just approach it the same way they did with the Inquisitor. Give people a choice between two voices and people will choose the one they prefer.

 

The Warden is the Hero of Ferelden. He could also either be the leader of Ferelden's Army or the King of the entire nation depending on your choices. Whichever position he has, he has significant clout and influence over the events happening in Ferelden alone. Considering half of DAI takes place in Ferelden, and the world is falling apart, it really doesn't not make sense at all that he would be absent, unless for a very good reason.

 

Also I doubt BioWare would be foolish enough to just kill off the Warden without considering the fan base.

 

I'm using Morrigan as an example here. Her being a companion/NPC doesn't matter. What's important is that she had a defined appearance, voice, personality, AND cannot die in either DAO or Witch Hunt. There is essentially no ambiguity, much like the bulk of protagonists/antagonists/other characters in fiction.

 

However, the protagonists in the Dragon Age series have varying degrees of ambiguity.

 

The Warden is perhaps the most ambiguous, followed by the Inquisitor, and then Hawke.

 

The Inquisitor and Hawke both have limitations imposed upon their potential voice and personality while the Warden is only limited in voice (though to a lesser degree than the other two). The Warden has no limit on potential personalities, which is a much bigger hurdle than voice. How does BioWare account for that in-game?

 

It found a solution - the character doesn't even appear on-screen. You mitigate having to canonize the character's personality, but the character can still contribute to the story (behind-the-scenes).

 

What you want is for BioWare to manufacture limitations on a character where they previously didn't exist, a strategy with which I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

I think an off-screen death is more likely than an on-screen death at this point, assuming BioWare's philosophy regarding the Warden remains the same going forward.

[Revan Reborn]

<snip>

What I would like is for BioWare to actually address the character and not put the Warden in the background. I don't see the voice being an issue as they could treat the Warden the same way they have with the Inquisitor by including options. An off-screen death my please some, but I would highly doubt it would please most.

[90s Luke]

What I would like is for BioWare to actually address the character and not put the Warden in the background. I don't see the voice being an issue as they could treat the Warden the same way they have with the Inquisitor by including options. An off-screen death my please some, but I would highly doubt it would please most.

 

 You ignored the part of my post about personality....

[Revan Reborn]

 You ignored the part of my post about personality....

That wouldn't be an issue either. BioWare games are always generally straightforward as their decisions are usually "good/neutral/bad." BioWare could play it safe and match a general personality for the character based on the choices you made in DAO and DAA. If you were killing people left and right and obviously weren't a nice person, the bad personality would be tied to your character. If you were generally trying to help others and would go out of your way to do it, the good personality would be applied. Etc.

[wcholcombe]

That wouldn't be an issue either. BioWare games are always generally straightforward as their decisions are usually "good/neutral/bad." BioWare could play it safe and match a general personality for the character based on the choices you made in DAO and DAA. If you were killing people left and right and obviously weren't a nice person, the bad personality would be tied to your character. If you were generally trying to help others and would go out of your way to do it, the good personality would be applied. Etc.

Ok, what if in your mind your Warden hated Morrigan, but did the dark ritual to survive.  Then because you did the DR, the game flags Morrigan and Warden as being friendly??

 

Or what if in your mind your Warden is a racist ****** but did mostly good because it was in his best interst so now the computer controlled warden comes along as being a good two shoes kind of warden based off your choices.

 

It has been made clear by DG that even if Hawke or the Warden appeared in DAI, we wouldn't be controlling them.

[Heimdall]

You missed my point entirely then. It doesn't matter what game we use (I used ME, TW, BA as a variety of examples). The point is continuity with a main protagonist can lead to a higher appreciation and more complex storytelling than a game with a brand new protagonist every time. I talked extensively about Mass Effect because it is BioWare's most successful original IP. DA2 and DAI have also borrowed heavily from ME using the voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, morality/personality, etc.
 
This isn't a different part of the universe... This is the same Thedas a decade later with the same characters... We just have a different protagonist in the mix than previous games, which again is the issue. I'm not suggesting BioWare shouldn't create new protagonists at all, but at the same time there is a lot to gain and learn if you at least reuse the same protagonist in more than one game. Overall I'd argue the fan base actually enjoys a game more when it feels like their choices and their character carry over to the next title. That's part of the reason I believe Mass Effect was so successful was because Shepard continued.
 
There will be continuity and progression issues regardless if its the same protagonist or not. We can use Leliana as a perfect example. BioWare will make mistakes and that's unavoidable, regardless of their method.

I understand that point, believe me I understand the benefit of being able to develope a character and relationships over multiple installments. I'm just saying that in the case of an RPG there can be drawbacks of trying to maintain that type of continuity and I think Mass Effect (Which is the only applicable example of this type of game as far as I know, the others you mentioned have fixed protagonists) has demonstrated as many of those drawbacks as strengths. My point is that the continuity you describe doesn't work as well when you put variables into the mix. Leliana is a peculiar case because bringing her back was a deliberate choice right after the first game. As series go on and variables mount, the way variable continuity is portrayed becomes more difficult and developers have to design the games so that, no matter what, the protagonist can start at the same place in the next game. It's constraining.

I'll admit that personally I think Bioware should concentrate more on making choices impactful within the game those choices are in, and I think the more self contained environment of Dragon Age titles is better for that than what Mass Effect had. That way they can worry less about how it will impact the next title. I'm not against bringing back protagonists for a second game persay, I thought the Awakening expansion showed how that could work in Dragon Age, I just think the way parts of the fan base constantly try to treat Dragon Age as the story of the Warden is decidedly wrong headed. I know it's the same universe, but it's a big universe. Yes, a few of the same characters are involved but most are new. As you said, it's been ten years. The world changed. This is a different story in the same universe, separated by time and geography.

I was fine with how the Warden's story was concluded after DAO. BioWare merely added fuel to the fire when they added Awakening with the Architect and Witch Hunt with Morrigan. The ending of DA2 certainly didn't help, but that's largely why they should bring a close to the Warden's chapter and then we can move on. Hopefully a majority of the answers will be addressed in DAI, but it's unlikely everything will be. Out of all of BioWare's games, I felt they have struggled with truly ending a story, perhaps out of greed, with Dragon Age games. In KotOR I and Mass Effect, things were final. Sequels weren't necessary and really weren't posed. There's always ambiguity and questions left lingering in DA it seems.

Endings are hard. You can't please everyone and everyone expects all the threads to be wrapped up in a neat bow. I don't think the Morrigan issue started with Witch Hunt though, people were agitating on the forums for their chance to walk off into the sunset with Morrigan ever since DAO. I really hope they manage to close the book on the Warden, but I know that no matter how well they do it, short of displaying his/her corpse, there will be people complaining that DA4 isn't the return of the Warden.

[90s Luke]

That wouldn't be an issue either. BioWare games are always generally straightforward as their decisions are usually "good/neutral/bad." BioWare could play it safe and match a general personality for the character based on the choices you made in DAO and DAA. If you were killing people left and right and obviously weren't a nice person, the bad personality would be tied to your character. If you were generally trying to help others and would go out of your way to do it, the good personality would be applied. Etc.

 

Morality might have been that cut-and-dried in BioWare's older games, but it has never been that way in Dragon Age.

 

Hawke's personalities weren't tied to morality.

 

Who would make a value judgment (agreeable to all) on each of the player's actions from DAO?

 

I'm sorry, but it is simply too problematic in my mind.

[Catche Jagger]

I personally don't care if we see the Warden as "the Warden" maybe we just find them dead or maybe they're stuck in some other realm where we may see a silhouette of their presence but never manage to communicate with us, or maybe the somehow became a frickin dragon due to a curse or something. There simply needs to be an answer as to where they are. They don't need to have some major role, but things need to be explained.

[Lebanese Dude]

Maybe Morrigan's "gift" was a cure for the taint. After doing so, the Warden scurries off to Antiva and becomes the Queen.

 

In all seriousness, the Warden's general story was in DAO and will be somehow dealt with in DAI. We don't know how that plays out yet. Perhaps the Warden ends up dead via sacrificing his or herself to save the Inquisitor or something. Would that be closure? 

[sylvanaerie]

Maybe Morrigan's "gift" was a cure for the taint. After doing so, the Warden scurries off to Antiva and becomes the Queen.

 

In all seriousness, the Warden's general story was in DAO and will be somehow dealt with in DAI. We don't know how that plays out yet. Perhaps the Warden ends up dead via sacrificing his or herself to save the Inquisitor or something. Would that be closure? 

 

People would insist 'my warden wouldn't do that' and head canon that he didn't.  Even if that was the only option available.