1428 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

It us mundane fear and that fear is justified as things they fear about mages are pretty much mostly real.

still going arent ya my friend lol

[MzHyde]

I can end this argument with one word. Dalish. They practice magic, and though accidents do occur, they seem to manage just fine. All one needs to do is ensure that responsible use of magic is taught to all who wield it. Couple that with careful research carried out under controlled conditions with every safety measure that can possibly be implemented used. You don't have to cage them in order to properly manage the risk. Accidents will always occur no matter what. All you can realistically do is minimize that risk not eliminate it altogether. There's also no good reason to segregate them from the rest of society. We've seen time and again that you can't realistically control all mages. Plenty have managed to live outside the Circle just fine without incident. I don't really think blood magic is all that evil either so long as you don't go sacrificing people. I will always support the mages, and that is that.

[Cryptos]

So...

 

What are we arguing for here?

 

I mean do the Mages just want the Circles independent from the Chantry and Templar supervision?

 

Or do Mages want the Circles to be completely abolished and for all of them to able to move around Thedas without any outside supervision or affliction other then their free agency? 

 

Just asking because people seem to arguing for Mages wanting vastly different things. 

From what i've seen of the pro mages here, it seems that they want complete freedom and the chantry abolished. Because they feel "oppressed" and all that stuff.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Question: Are you pro chantry or anti chantry?

 

which chantry? i'll assume the white, in which case i'm not against the white chantry persay, I'm against their treatment of mages. and blaming them for everything.

In any case the chantries doctrine is that the maker brought down the blight as a divine punishment. logically the maker is to blame for the blights its his doing whether you agree with the punishment or not. 

[The Baconer]

"[...] I hearby declare the Accord null and void. Neither the Seekers of Truth nor the Templar Order recognize Chantry authority, and instead we will perform the Maker's work as it was meant to be done, as we see fit."

 

My, but how quickly they came running back. Either way, this Nevarran Accord foolishness will have to be disposed of and replaced. Templars will have no more legal authority to separate from the Circle and the Chantry.

[TK514]

So...
 
What are we arguing for here?
 
I mean do the Mages just want the Circles independent from the Chantry and Templar supervision?
 
Or do Mages want the Circles to be completely abolished and for all of them to able to move around Thedas without any outside supervision or affliction other then their free agency? 
 
Just asking because people seem to arguing for Mages wanting vastly different things.

That's just the BSN. I suspect the rank and file Mages just want some of the failures of the Seekers to be addressed and corrected. It's the radical leadership who are forcing the war. And the Pro-Mage BSN makes the radical leadership look almost sane and intelligent by comparison.

[Tevinter Soldier]

In first place wheter maker exist is not explained wheter mages pissed off god or just went to place they shouldn't pretty sure that we can thanks mages for doing that.If not them maker wouldn't taint anyone and in second scenario no one would go to black city in first place as that would require magic.So no mages no blight

 

your struggling, we all know the chantry doctrine (which began after the third blight) is that the maker brought down this punishment, are you saying the southern chantry is wrong?

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's not exactly hard to hide in Kirkwall.

 

Emile was at the hanged man, spreading false rumors about being a blood mage and Meredtih's templars couldn't find him.

Anders stayed in Darktown for about 6 years and his place wasn't not much a secret, he said so himself.

 

Oddly enough there is only one mage that we know off (right now) that actively sought the destruction the of the world and that's because he had been taught for most of his life that he was a weapon and weapons destroy things.

 

Most mages either wants to be left alone or help when they can and a very few wants to conquer stuff.

Yeah what means they have enough freedom to hide and act in way templars don't want same pretty much for ferlden circle.

If that says something it is pretty much templars aren't very competent.

 

Another pro-mage false as i said many times we had qunari mage that tried destroy whole world tearing veil and summoing army of demons to do that (sounds familiar?) plus mage don't need actively seek that ,mage can just can cause that by their unstable and dangerous nature see magisters and blights , army of harvester created by mage not mention demonic possession that makes them pursuit the destruction of the world.

[raging_monkey]

So...
 
What are we arguing for here?
 
I mean do the Mages just want the Circles independent from the Chantry and Templar supervision?
 
Or do Mages want the Circles to be completely abolished and for all of them to able to move around Thedas without any outside supervision or affliction other then their free agency? 
 
Just asking because people seem to arguing for Mages wanting vastly different things.

i want separation from the chantry and templar and let mages live free from mundane oversight but still in their circles away from the mundanes that hate them.

But id settle for full separation from the chantry and they should have no dealing with the circles, in return we allow templars to act as a police group ASKED for assitstance if things get wierd.

Mundanes have no place in affairs of magic when they need rocks to gain limited abilities

[lordsaren101]

I say the Templars should be hunted down and killed without mercy. The chantry needs to burn. Maybe Anders will show up, I would love to see a few more chantries explode, preferably full of their miserable self righteous clergy.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I can end this argument with one word. Dalish. They practice magic, and though accidents do occur, they seem to manage just fine. All one needs to do is ensure that responsible use of magic is taught to all who wield it. Couple that with careful research carried out under controlled conditions with every safety measure that can possibly be implemented used. You don't have to cage them in order to properly manage the risk. Accidents will always occur no matter what. All you can realistically do is minimize that risk not eliminate it altogether. There's also no good reason to segregate them from the rest of society. We've seen time and again that you can't realistically control all mages. Plenty have managed to live outside the Circle just fine without incident. I don't really think blood magic is all that evil either so long as you don't go sacrificing people. I will always support the mages, and that is that.

 

With the three Dalish clans we've encounted in DA, one of them was destroyed by a Keeper that turned in an abomination (Masked Empire). And another two could be destroyed because of the actions of their Keepers.

 

Merrill getting Marethari possessed can cause the Clan to try to kill her and result in Hawke killing them all in return. And in Origins Zatherian was the one who caused the Werewolf disease which can possibly destroy his Clan. So, yeah, the Dalish don't have the best system when it comes to handling their Mages, and they don't even have the problem of handling thousands of them like the Templars do. 

[raging_monkey]

I say the Templars should be hunted down and killed without mercy. The chantry needs to burn. Maybe Anders will show up, I would love to see a few more chantries explode, preferably full of their miserable self righteous clergy.

cant agree with the methods but you have conviction lol

[ComedicSociopathy]

i want separation from the chantry and templar and let mages live free from mundane oversight but still in their circles away from the mundanes that hate them.

But id settle for full separation from the chantry and they should have no dealing with the circles, in return we allow templars to act as a police group ASKED for assitstance if things get wierd.

Mundanes have no place in affairs of magic when they need rocks to gain limited abilities

 

Won't that isolationism just make mundanes more fearful of Mages? I'd think the best things that the Mages could do is actively gain the goodwill of the masses by devoting themselves to helping mundanes with their magical powers. It worked for Anders and his healing clinic and would help in educating people on the usefulness of magic. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

So...

 

What are we arguing for here?

 

I mean do the Mages just want the Circles independent from the Chantry and Templar supervision?

 

Or do Mages want the Circles to be completely abolished and for all of them to able to move around Thedas without any outside supervision or affliction other then their free agency? 

 

Just asking because people seem to arguing for Mages wanting vastly different things. 

 

Mages are not a unified force they are desperate refugee's which no one will take in, a minority fighting for their very lives against the aggressive majority, their end goals are all different.  alas as this thread proves templars don't care they wish them all dead or living as prisoners simply for existing.

 

Some want to live in isolation away from all mundanes.

Some want to return to the old way (as in what the towers were before Justinia II started the crack down because of her fear of tevinter)

Some want to return to the towers but run them themselves

Some want complete freedom for mages

Some just want to be left alone

[TheKomandorShepard]

your struggling, we all know the chantry doctrine (which began after the third blight) is that the maker brought down this punishment, are you saying the southern chantry is wrong?

I don't say anything i don't belive in chantry version at least part about maker but as i said in both scenarios it was cased by mages in frist maker scenario where mages pissed off god and in second that mages went to place they shouldn't.In both scenarios mages pretty caused that because of thing they shoudn't do and no one else could do.So it doesn't matter if chantry is wrong or not here. 

[Lulupab]

cant agree with the methods but you have conviction lol

 

yeah me too but one has to admit, the explosion was glorious, I mean it was PINK!!! 

[raging_monkey]

Won't that isolationism just make mundanes more fearful of Mages? I'd think the best things that the Mages could do is actively gain the goodwill of the masses by devoting themselves to helping mundanes with their magical powers. It worked for Anders and his healing clinic and would help in educating people on the usefulness of magic.

while i agree with you. Its shown that magi cant be accepted into normal society due their gifts and mundanes have been taught a millenium worth of "pity magi at best but always fear them" its very very very rare that they can co-exist without some domination. Best to separate us from them without their "approval"until they need something.

It will be hard for a while but it will be better. Better to die miserable with friends than by a guy with a sword

[TTTX]

Yeah what means they have enough freedom to hide and act in way templars don't want same pretty much for ferlden circle.

If that says something it is pretty much templars aren't very competent.

 

Another pro-mage false as i said many times we had qunari mage that tried destroy whole world tearing veil and summoing army of demons to do that (sounds familiar?) plus mage don't need actively seek that ,mage can just can cause that by their unstable and dangerous nature see magisters and blights , army of harvester created by mage not mention demonic possession that makes them pursuit the destruction of the world.

Kirkwall is a big place, with lots of holes to hide in.

 

I did say actively sought to destroy the world (and even then he was very lucky in getting that very thing he needed to do it in the first place), as for the magisters they messed with something no one understood, the black city is an unknown even now, it's not that different from when human first started toying with the first atomic bomb back in the day.

As for the harvester the mage only created one and it created more and it was the dwarfs who made the decision to use flesh and bone. but much like everything else no one knew it would do these things.

 

We humans have created stuff that can destroy the world or potentially destroy the world and yet we created it anyway.

[raging_monkey]

yeah me too but one has to admit, the explosion was glorious, I mean it was PINK!!! 

high five lulu* offers high 5*

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kirkwall is a big place, with lots of holes to hide in.

 

I did say actively sought to destroy the world (and even then he was very lucky in getting that very thing he needed to do it in the first place), as for the magisters they messed with something no one understood, the black city is an unknown even now, it's not that different from when human first started toying with the first atomic bomb back in the day.

As for the harvester the mage only created one and it created more and it was the dwarfs who made the decision to use flesh and bone. but much like everything else no one knew it would do these things.

 

We humans have created stuff that can destroy the world or potentially destroy the world and yet we created it anyway.

So what? no point aruging here as i don't know even about what you are arguing her.

As i said it doesn't matter if they seek it or not read again... And no humans have control over technology and it belongs to society you can't even touch nuclear bomb... mages are unstable and it takes individual to cause colosal disaster because that individual wanted to become god or something not to mention demonic possession that gives them dangerous behavior.

[ComedicSociopathy]

while i agree with you. Its shown that magi cant be accepted into normal society due their gifts and mundanes have been taught a millenium worth of "pity magi at best but always fear them" its very very very rare that they can co-exist without some domination. Best to separate us from them without their "approval"until they need something.

It will be hard for a while but it will be better. Better to die miserable with friends than by a guy with a sword

 

But if you take that stance then nothing will change.

 

Non-Mages will still fear Mages, and Mages will still resent Non-Mages for not being allowed to integrate with the wider population of Thedas. Isn't that just asking for another Anders situation where one rogue Mages goes crazy kills a bunch of people and cause the rest of Thedas to desire to bring back the Templar system? Also, want about the Mages that aren't born within the Circles? Will the Circle try to take them away from the their families like the Templars did? What about the children of Mages who aren't born with magic? Will they just be abandoned because they weren't born with powers? 

 

Seems to me that isolation will just create a whole new set of problems and possibly create dissent in the Circles ranks.

[TTTX]

So what? no point aruging here as i don't know even about what you are arguing her.

As i said it doesn't matter if they seek it or not read again... And no humans have control over technology and it belongs to society you can't even touch nuclear bomb... mages are unstable and it takes individual to cause colosal disaster because that individual wanted to become god or something not to mention demonic possession that gives them dangerous behavior.

most of the examples you point out when mages have been close to destroy the world, is when the old magisters ruled (and there was no one to oppose them back then) and it took incredible amount of power way more power then what most mages have access to or extreme amount of luck as seen with the Qunari mage.

[TheKomandorShepard]

most of the examples you point out when mages have been close to destroy the world, is when the old magisters ruled (and there was no one to oppose them back then) and it took incredible amount of power way more power then what most mages have access to or extreme amount of luck as seen with the Qunari mage.

It seems they have access to that now and not so long time ago from dai(and who many times knows before) .

[raging_monkey]

But if you take that stance then nothing will change.
 
Non-Mages will still fear Mages, and Mages will still resent Non-Mages for not being allowed to integrate with the wider population of Thedas. Isn't that just asking for another Anders situation where one rogue Mages goes crazy kills a bunch of people and cause the rest of Thedas to desire to bring back the Templar system? Also, want about the Mages that aren't born within the Circles? Will the Circle try to take them away from the their families like the Templars did? What about the children of Mages who aren't born with magic? Will they just be abandoned because they weren't born with powers? 
 
Seems to me that isolation will just create a whole new set of problems and possibly create dissent in the Circles ranks.

i never said it was perfect. If you'd like i can pm my ideal solution to you its off topic and id rather not have it lost or torn apart lol

[TTTX]

It seems they have access to that now and not so long time ago from dai(and who many times knows before) .

We don't exactly know the details on who did the deed or how they did it in DA:I (or it's not public knowledge yet).

 

it could be none mages working with a demon for all we know.