Templars don't attract demons.
Ah but now now templars have to deal with Red lyrium and its "singing" they now can also be tempted and turn into monsters. With DAI I think bioware are trying to balance the factions so to speak. Both side's have their "demons" now and it is showing that either side cannot function without some kind of oversight.
Plus speculation on red lyrium going by AJ video.
Spoiler
I'm not sure I understand, all of the Southern Mages are held responsible for crimes they didn't necessarily commit, way before they were born, by people that might not even have been their ancestors, but all the Templars get a free pass when some of them actually commit horrendous crimes in the present, without even the excuse of being tempted by demons?
I don't care if you're "pro-mage" or "pro-templar" (what a ridiculous way of splitting the debate like there is no middle ground), at least apply your standards on both sides.
*eyes and ears bleed and covers your mouth* shhh dont let the pro templars and pro magi hear that... that kind of logic makes people go crazy when you bring common sense here on the bsnI'm not sure I understand, all of the Southern Mages are held responsible for crimes they didn't necessarily commit, way before they were born, by people that might not even have been their ancestors, but all the Templars get a free pass when some of them actually commit horrendous crimes in the present, without even the excuse of being tempted by demons?
I don't care if you're "pro-mage" or "pro-templar" (what a ridiculous way of splitting the debate like there is no middle ground), at least apply your standards on both sides.
I'm not sure I understand, all of the Southern Mages are held responsible for crimes they didn't necessarily commit, way before they were born, by people that might not even have been their ancestors, but all the Templars get a free pass when some of them actually commit horrendous crimes in the present, without even the excuse of being tempted by demons?
I don't care if you're "pro-mage" or "pro-templar" (what a ridiculous way of splitting the debate like there is no middle ground), at least apply your standards on both sides.
When have people held the mages responsible for Corypheus and his ilk?
Rather, we use it as a cautionary tale of what magic can do when used for ill intent.
Ah but now now templars have to deal with Red lyrium and its "singing" they now can also be tempted and turn into monsters. With DAI I think bioware are trying to balance the factions so to speak. Both side's have their "demons" now and it is showing that either side cannot function without some kind of oversight.
Plus speculation on red lyrium going by AJ video.
Spoiler
No they don't. Just don't use Red Lyrium.
That's like saying all mages have to deal with using Blood Magic, when clearly that's a personal choice.
Ok. Doesn't really change or affect anything in the post you quoted, however.
Templars don't need to be leashed because they don't attract demons. It's really that simple. Unless a mage has given service well above and beyond station to prove they can resist temptation, say going into the Fade and slaying Legions of demons, they should remain in the Circle.
It could be better. No one disagrees on that point.
just out of curiousity howd you allieviate the situation. Tbh while enjoy MT threads the whole blame game is starting to bore me lol best look for a compromiseIt could be better. No one disagrees on that point.
When have people held the mages responsible for Corypheus and his ilk?
Rather, we use it as a cautionary tale of what magic can do when used for ill intent.
Saying that the mages cannot be trusted with their power because of what have been done in the past while considering that templars have no need to reform their own system when it so clearly showed its weakness is definitely having double standards.
It's perfectly fine to be cautious, and except for a few extreme points of view, most of the people in this thread seem to agree that you should be cautious with magic. It's just on the manner to be that there is disagreement. There is a vast difference between being cautious and being paranoid.
humans are paranoid by natureSaying that the mages cannot be trusted with their power because of what have been done in the past while considering that templars have no need to reform their own system when it so clearly showed its weakness is definitely having double standards.
It's perfectly fine to be cautious, and except for a few extreme points of view, most of the people in this thread seem to agree that you should be cautious with magic. It's just on the manner to be that there is disagreement. There is a vast difference between being cautious and being paranoid.
Saying that the mages cannot be trusted with their power because of what have been done in the past while considering that templars have no need to reform their own system when it so clearly showed its weakness is definitely having double standards.
It's perfectly fine to be cautious, and except for a few extreme points of view, most of the people in this thread seem to agree that you should be cautious with magic. It's just on the manner to be that there is disagreement. There is a vast difference between being cautious and being paranoid.
Tell that to everyone who watches their loved ones turn into abominations because they were not strong enough. Circles exist because mages want to use magic, which will always involve spirits. So either mages become magical janitors again, and thus do not have to live in Circles, or they could stop complaining and follow the guidelines they set. Secondly, the Templars have no technical control over the mages. They never have. What is their to reform?
Templars don't need to be leashed because they don't attract demons. It's really that simple. Unless a mage has given service well above and beyond station to prove they can resist temptation, say going into the Fade and slaying Legions of demons, they should remain in the Circle.
Templars as a military organization need to be leashed like any other armed force in service to a higher authority, lest they turn to banditry and looting. This is exactly what happened in this instance.
Giving them the right to legally secede from the Chantry is counterintuitive.
Templars as a military organization need to be leashed like any other armed force in service to a higher authority, lest they turn to banditry and looting. This is exactly what happened in this instance.
The Inquisition? Also they fell out of line because all of their leaders were blown up. You cut off the snakes head, and what happens?
Giving them the right to legally secede from the Chantry is counterintuitive.
Unless the Chantry continues to pay for everything, they have no obligation to stay honestly. The Chantry isn't a government.
Tell that to everyone who watches their loved ones turn into abominations because they were not strong enough. Circles exist because mages want to use magic, which will always involve spirits. So either mages become magical janitors again, and thus do not have to live in Circles, or they could stop complaining and follow the guidelines they set. Secondly, the Templars have no technical control over the mages. They never have. What is their to reform?
I do not understand this argument. Anyone in the world can potentially lose their loved one to a monster, magical or not. Fear of losing something dear is not an excuse to do whatever you want to other people just because you're afraid.
What about the people who lost their loved ones to diseases or wounds that could have been cured if healers were allowed to have clinics? Are they in any less pain because it was not a demon that cause the death? How many people in Thedas are dying every day for lack of proper medical care? Wouldn't it be something the Chantry should be striving for?
Why every time magic comes up all we hear about is blood magic and demons, while healing magic or any other kind that could have a practical use are blissfully ignored?
Why every time magic comes up all we hear about is blood magic and demons, while healing magic or any other kind that could have a practical use are blissfully ignored?
Personally, I'm far more terrified of healing magic or any other type with a practical use than I am of blood mage or demons.
Most people look at it and see a way to help people. I look at it and see humanity becoming dependent upon magic to the point where the infrastructure is entirely based around it, mages controll every cog in the machine, have the ability to crash society if their demands aren't met and far more wealth than they could possibly need with non-mages becoming second class citizens due to an inability to compete in the market.
The Inquisition?
Will not last long as a totally independent entity.
Also they fell out of line because all of their leaders were blown up.
Nobles were getting sick of their **** before the microwave occurred, and there's nothing to suggest that the war was isolated and/or contained before the Breach, even if it got exceptionally messy afterward.
You cut off the snakes head, and what happens?
Usually lots of hangings and beheadings when an opposing authority regains control. I am beyond merciful in comparison.
Unless the Chantry continues to pay for everything, they have no obligation to stay honestly.
Yes, they do.
The Chantry isn't a government.
Correct, they're more than a government.
Personally, I'm far more terrified of healing magic or any other type with a practical use than I am of blood mage or demons.
Most people look at it and see a way to help people. I look at it and see humanity becoming dependent upon magic to the point where the infrastructure is entirely based around it, mages controll every cog in the machine, have the ability to crash society if their demands aren't met and far more wealth than they could possibly need with non-mages becoming second class citizens due to an inability to compete in the market.
This exact argument could be made with science in our world. We are completely dependent on it. Horrible things can potentially be done with it. I know I still prefer to take that risk than being left to my own devices.
It is also assuming that all mages are a homogeneous entity, with each members thinking and acting the same, when we know perfectly well it's not the case. With a solid education, I'm fairly certain the majority of mages can be good citizens too.
using logic again... keep goingThis exact argument could be made with science in our world. We are completely dependent on it. Horrible things can potentially be done with it. I know I still prefer to take that risk than being left to my own devices.
It is also assuming that all mages are a homogeneous entity, with each members thinking and acting the same, when we know perfectly well it's not the case. With a solid education, I'm fairly certain the majority of mages can be good citizens too.
This exact argument could be made with science in our world. We are completely dependent on it. Horrible things can potentially be done with it. I know I still prefer to take that risk than being left to my own devices.
It is also assuming that all mages are a homogeneous entity, with each members thinking and acting the same, when we know perfectly well it's not the case. With a solid education, I'm fairly certain the majority of mages can be good citizens too.
But science is not something inherent to a particular ethnic group that can't be used by anybody else. Magic is.
And even if we assume mages can be good citizens; groups and individuals pursue their own interests at the expense of others. It's an undeniable fact of life and mages are not immune to it.
With their special abilities, it would only be a matter of time until they dominated society again. Hence why restrictions are important.
Blessed are they that stand before the corrupt and the wicked, and do not falter!
more chantry filth* rolls eyes in sarcasim*Blessed are they that stand before the corrupt and the wicked, and do not falter!
Will not last long as a totally independent entity.
Grey Wardens? You keep trying.
Nobles were getting sick of their **** before the microwave occurred, and there's nothing to suggest that the war was isolated and/or contained before the Breach, even if it got exceptionally messy afterward.
Nobles get tired of everything all the time. Others don't. You can't group all of them together just because a few were tired of anything. As to your other points, we have nothing to show it was anywhere near as out of control now, and peace was definitely in the cards. So yeah.
Usually lots of hangings and beheadings when an opposing authority regains control. I am beyond merciful in comparison.
It's a phrase was meant to convey that without leadership, everything went to ****, but as I'm sure you knew that, moving on.
Yes, they do.
They obviously aren't right now.
Correct, they're more than a government.
And just as Saturn is morn than a government, that means nothing. They have no legal ties obligating them to remain in the Chantry if their mutual agreement is not respected.
But science is not something inherent to a particular ethnic group that can't be used by anybody else. Magic is.
And even if we assume mages can be good citizens; groups and individuals pursue their own interests at the expense of others. It's an undeniable fact of life and mages are not immune to it.
With their special abilities, it would only be a matter of time until they dominated society again. Hence why restrictions are important.
I have to disagree with science. First, not everyone has the capacity to become a scientist. And even if everyone had access to it, it wouldn't make it less potentially dangerous. I am even tempted to say it would make it even more dangerous.
Power corrupts, yes, absolutely. Magical or not. But if human nature was truly that evil, I don't think society would have gone very far. Culture goes a long way in forming one's moral compass, and good education would probably assure that you would have enough decent mages to counter the ones falling to temptation, on top of the mundanes trained to counter magic the way templars do.
I do not disagree that some restrictions are necessary, I disagree with the way the Chantry and the Templars handled it.
The simple fact that the vast majority of mages in Circles were looking for a decent compromise before their hand was forced is proof enough that they were perfectly aware that with great power comes great responsability.
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