The only salution I have ever come up with for mage and templar that really addresses the issues for both sides is simply this.
The circles exist they are not mandatory to join but are encourage to join, because the harrowing test should always exist while cruel in many ways it really hammers in the nail to say look you fup we are here to put you back in your place or kill you.
The only salution I have ever come up with for mage and templar that really addresses the issues for both sides is simply this.
The circles exist they are not mandatory to join but are encourage to join, because the harrowing test should always exist while cruel in many ways it really hammers in the nail to say look you fup we are here to put you back in your place or kill you.
how would you handle situations like conor or merridth's sister?
The only salution I have ever come up with for mage and templar that really addresses the issues for both sides is simply this.
The circles exist they are not mandatory to join but are encourage to join, because the harrowing test should always exist while cruel in many ways it really hammers in the nail to say look you fup we are here to put you back in your place or kill you.
Circles should be mandatory but they should allow visitations of families and mages should be allowed to have relationships without their children being taken away. Plus get those healing mages out to the common folk for crying out loud it would really help with the fear issue in my opinion.
how would you handle situations like conor or merridth's sister?
Sorry to say but locking people up by force will cause more abominations and disasters than not, also notice I said the circles would not vanish and actually more than likely gain in prestige, and I think most mages would join circles willingly than not and those who do not well guess what the templars are for, watching mages. Luckily templars are easier to train and arm, as mages are a vary small minority.
Also keep in mind I also said the harrowing is a good test and should be administered to all mages, guess what that means you got it rigth those in the circle will likely have a higher success rate, meaning most mages would be more willing to go as for the case for children with no parents and orphans I would say auto circle for them as they cannot choose for themselves.
Also lots of parents either out of fear or a chance for opportunity and free education/ticket to a nice life in the circle. And there we have it even more ways to make the circle not mandatory.
This also encourages more of a working relationship with mages and templars as templars would be viewed less as jailers and more like officers of the law. Which I think would be a more appropriate roll for Templars.
Modifié par Chibi Elemental, 09 novembre 2014 - 01:25 .
Circles should be mandatory but they should allow visitations of families and mages should be allowed to have relationships without their children being taken away. Plus get those healing mages out to the common folk for crying out loud it would really help with the fear issue in my opinion.
I agree. though keep in mind that the vast majority of people still won't be able to visit their children/parents. why? simple logistics. the vast majority of people are not nobles, and simply can not afford to travel or can't leave themselves. I highly doubt many city elves or peasents will be making the trip to a mage tower. the mage might but even then i suspect it would be rare.
You do not have to be a behemoth to be a monster. I am sure that the mages of Kirkwall's circle would agree.
A templar can turn into a rapist/abuser of power to the point of murder or worse, anywhere, any time and they must always exercise restraint when dealing with their prisoners. This is a point the Chantry and templars will argue because of the sheer size of their egos.
With Red Lyrium added to the mix, you now have literal monsters running around.
Unless you destroy red lyrium and wipe out the red templars, some will be at risk of picking up the red lyrium. It also seems a bit late for their 'come to jesus meeting' given their presence in Inquisition.
It is not exactly the same but it is very very similar.
Circles should be mandatory but they should allow visitations of families
They did. Even Kirkwall let Leandra visit Bethany.
If that's the case why would people hide their children? Fearing that they will never seem them again? I personally think it was because of Hawke's status and the strings pulled and the people hawke knows during act 1 that allows Leandra to visit. I recall a conversation option with Merril where Hawke says they can't even vist Bethany. So I wonder how often family can visit or if it mainly applies to noble families?
I assume there are also many people like the Warden who can't even remember their famlies or where they came from since you have to option to say such. So I think Leandra visiting Bethany is not exactly the "Norm" so to speak I think bioware should clarify on this issue.
If that's the case why would people hide their children? Fearing that they will never seem them again?
Well, I imagine most peasants aren't going to be able to make the trip very often, if at all. Hawke (and thus Leandra) is not only rich by this point, but the Gallows is literally right outside Kirkwall. Most kingdoms and/or city states have a single Circle, which can make visitation inconvenient or impossible depending on where the family lives.
Well, I imagine most peasants aren't going to be able to make the trip very often, if at all. Hawke (and thus Leandra) is not only rich by this point, but the Gallows is literally right outside Kirkwall. Most kingdoms and/or city states have a single Circle, which can make visitation inconvenient or impossible depending on where the family lives.
Well then this is just one more to add to the list. I say they should help the poorer families set up monthly visits or visiting every few months. Or hell the mage coming home for a holiday/ a few weeks or something for good behaviour if they are trusted.
I still feel that to solve the fear issue is that they need mages out there helping the local community with their magic healing poorer folks, driving off wild beasts and bandits for those who are more battle inclined. Instead of just bringing them out for war or exalted marches.
Oh and open the circle to normal people so we can get more people like Dagna I am quite interested to see the fruits of what she learned in the circle.
No, it still isn't anywhere near the same. Because with mages, even the nicest guy in town can turn into a rampaging monster. All it takes is for him to go to sleep and meet a demon who whispers he knows cure to a disease plaguing his friend and with a moment of weakness in his heart, we have another Connor wreaking havoc.
A nice templar just has to walk around the red lyrium in a wide arc.
Yes, red templars need to be eliminated for the safety of Thedas. But once we've eliminated the red templars, all we have to do is clean up the red lyrium and we're done. With mages, eliminating the evil ones doesn't solve the inherent problems of magic itself.
And eliminating the evil templars does not solve the inherent problems of supreme authority over others itself.
Abominations are rare, mind you, despite what gameplay might have you think.
I cannot wait to see if it's as easy as 'eliminating the red templars' and 'cleaning up red lyrium'. Knowing Dragon Age's realistic take on human nature, I doubt it.
After all, in my country we still have a war on drugs.
After all, in my country we still have a war on drugs.
<.<
*Was part of several missions raiding Afgani poppy fields*
Please show me a source for the latter, for this idea mages were banned from politics in Tevinter and that truly applied. I have looked and cannot find it.
I agree, by Western standards, all Qunari may appear to be slaves to society; however, slavery as we know it can only exist in a world of Western standards where there is some form of capitalism. The Qunari don't engage in that within their society. It is an entirely different mindset. They don't view any of the people as property, lesser than any others (even the ones who've been powerered) and thus don't adhere to the actual definition of slavery. I can see how a Western would see them as slaves, but I feel it's inaccurate and based upon cultural bias. This is not to say I think the Qunari are awesome. I am actually more afraid of them than Tevinter. But that's likely also my Western cultural bias.
I don't want to get too far into Qunari culture, but while they are even more restricted than Circle mages, as has been said in-thread, "not free" is not precisely the same as "slave."
Slavery is a legal or economic system under which people are treated as property. Though laws and systems vary, as property, enslaved persons, referred to as "slaves", may be bought and sold.
The Imperial Chantry codex entry.
And very well. To avoid semantic disputes, we could refer to them as "drones," or the like.
the irony right my friend.<.<
*Was part of several missions raiding Afgani poppy fields*
No, it still isn't anywhere near the same. Because with mages, even the nicest guy in town can turn into a rampaging monster. All it takes is for him to go to sleep and meet a demon who whispers he knows cure to a disease plaguing his friend and with a moment of weakness in his heart, we have another Connor wreaking havoc.
Prove this. Please. Show me one instance where this ever happened without some other circumstance weakening the Veil, or the demon having been summoned to Thedas before the possession took place.
Prove this. Please. Show me one instance where this ever happened without some other circumstance weakening the Veil, or the demon having been summoned to Thedas before the possession took place.
Well there was mage girl.
I forget her name but she was Thrask's daughter.
She sort of just turned into an abomination.
Well there was mage girl.
I forget her name but she was Thrask's daughter.
She sort of just turned into an abomination.
Kirkwall, tattered Veil.
Well there was mage girl.
I forget her name but she was Thrask's daughter.
She sort of just turned into an abomination.
Kirkwall, tattered Veil.
The Veil's not tattered in Kirkwall, and considering the Veil is thin at every Circle of Magi from magic use, that's not a valid excuse.
The Veil's not tattered in Kirkwall, and considering the Veil is thin at every Circle of Magi from magic use, that's not a valid excuse.
It really isn't.
I think the whole concept is moronic so I guess I'll stand over in the corner.
The Veil's not tattered in Kirkwall, and considering the Veil is thin at every Circle of Magi from magic use, that's not a valid excuse.
Yes it is. The whole region is cursed; multiple codex entries mention it, and it even has multiple sources (one from Tevinter blood magic rituals, one from Corypheus), not to mention that said curse was confirmed by comparing Kirkwall's immense problems with mages with every other Circle; Kirkwall is worse than every other Circle of Magi in its Veil, not just regular space.
did it have a veil at that point?Yes it is. The whole region is cursed; multiple codex entries mention it, and it even has multiple sources (one from Tevinter blood magic rituals, one from Corypheus), not to mention that said curse was confirmed by comparing Kirkwall's immense problems with mages with every other Circle; Kirkwall is worse than every other Circle of Magi in its Veil, not just regular space.
Yes it is. The whole region is cursed; multiple codex entries mention it, and it even has multiple sources (one from Tevinter blood magic rituals, one from Corypheus), not to mention that said curse was confirmed by comparing Kirkwall's immense problems with mages with every other Circle; Kirkwall is worse than every other Circle of Magi in its Veil, not just regular space.
It says the Veil is unusually thin. It does not say the region is cursed. Oriana wasn't even at the Circle, she was at the docks. Finally, possession comes from the mage giving in to a demon's demands. The Veil's strength has literally no impact.
did it have a veil at that point?
It still exists, so it has a Veil. Everywhere does.
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