1428 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Part of the main reason why there is conflicting info is that for the most part all our knowledge is from other characters in the game, who have their own biases and reasons. Because people might have different views they write their different views, or talk to you. They could be misinformed or have their own theories or could be lying. However it is for the most part all In Character. 
 
I personally like this apporach, but I can see why others hate it.

i get that, but when i debate something i rather it be on logic and facts rather x variable. I love BM but i hate how its the "unknown" style that has shoddy records and facts

[Mimilette]

Oh, I don't mind the different perspective of the characters, quite the contrary in fact. If we discover that Tevinter is not as bad, or is even worse than what we learned from Fenris, I would not call it retcon.

But having mages summoning demons in Kirkwall like there's no tomorrow is bound to make players think that it's just another day in mage life, while it seems that the vision of the devs concerning blood magic lore was in fact different. I guess they have to make room for gameplay mechanics, but it does muddy our perspective.

[herkles]

Oh, I don't mind the different perspective of the characters, quite the contrary in fact. If we discover that Tevinter is not as bad, or is even worse than what we learned from Fenris, I would not calling it retcon.

But having mages summoning demons in Kirkwall like there's no tomorrow is bound to make players think that it's just another day in mage life, while it seems that the vision of the devs concerning blood magic lore was in fact different. I guess they have to make room for gameplay mechanics, but it does muddy our perspective.

keep in mind though even that is not technically a retcon. why? the story of DA2 was told by varric, meaning he could have gotten some details wrong or just exagerated for dramatic effect.

[Mimilette]

keep in mind though even that is not technically a retcon. why? the story of DA2 was told by varric, meaning he could have gotten some details wrong or just exagerated for dramatic effect.

 

Ha ha ha, I guess technically we could indeed see it that way. How very clever of them to use Varric to tell us that story.

[Chibi Elemental]

keep in mind though even that is not technically a retcon. why? the story of DA2 was told by varric, meaning he could have gotten some details wrong or just exagerated for dramatic effect.

 

Yes varric is indeed a vary unreliable narrator :3 I love that about da2 its most of the smaller things I do not care for :<

[raging_monkey]

Yes varric is indeed a vary unreliable narrator :3 I love that about da2 its most of the smaller things I do not care for :<

maybe just maybe varric was full of **** and made the situation worse in his descprition due seeing it first hand and created a subconsciencous bias.

* love varric to bits but he's lair lol*

[Chibi Elemental]

He is an honest liar if that makes sense he spins a good tale but knows when to pull legs or obscure the truth I am sure our hawke was represented correctly just not what really really happened

[Master Warder Z_]

[SgtSteel91]

The thought process of my first Inquisitor:

 

The Breach is a magic problem so it will require a magic solution. The Circle Mages know all about magic and can most likely come up with a magic solution. Templars are more effective at combating Demons coming out of The Breach than mages. But the Templars will only be good for containing The Breach, it's not a solution. Therefor, to close the Breach getting the Mages onboard is a must. Templars are secondary but they will be helpful in combating Demons and make the solution easier to achieve. Priority is getting the Mages, ideally want both sides working with the Inquisition.

[KainD]

Circle Mages know all about magic 

 

Spoiler

 

Though, I guess your Inquisitor could believe such a thing from a role-playing perspective.

[SgtSteel91]

I should add that she's a human warrior.

 

Mages are in those Circles all the time. They're spending it studying magic and ****, right? They probably know more about it than I do.

[KainD]

Ugh, I think I'm sick of mages an Templars. Fighting each other isn't going to solve the breach.

 

Who cares about the breach? There are more important things to do. Like help a woman retrieve her dead husbands ring from the templars.. 

[Elfquisitor]

Templar scum. All templars should crucified along the imperial highway.

Don't take a bite too big for your mouth mage.

[Master Warder Z_]

I admire the purity of the Legion's justice.

There is a serene beauty to it; I'm glad you can appreciate it.

[The Elder King]

On Mages being possessed without summoning a demon, I think Last Flight had an example.

Spoiler

Didn't a mage Warden give in to a demon during a fight?

[Master Warder Z_]

On Mages being possessed without summoning a demon, I think Last Flight had an example.

Spoiler

Didn't a mage Warden give in to a demon during a fight?

Yeah if I remember right.

[Keroko]

And eliminating the evil templars does not solve the inherent problems of supreme authority over others itself.
 
Abominations are rare, mind you, despite what gameplay might have you think.
 
I cannot wait to see if it's as easy as 'eliminating the red templars' and 'cleaning up red lyrium'.  Knowing Dragon Age's realistic take on human nature, I doubt it.
 
After all, in my country we still have a war on drugs.

Because drugs can be endlessly reproduced. The red lyrium on the other hand, is spawned from the rifts and extremely rare outside of those rifts. Once we close the rifts, supplies will run out. We'll still have extremist templars, but not 'turn into behemoth' extreme ones.
 
Make no mistake, red lyrium is a threat we should take seriously. But it's a threat that has an end. The mage problem does not.

And yes, abominations are rare. Because until recently there was a system in place that severely lowered the chances of mages becoming them. But even so, one abomination can slay dozens, if not hundreds of people. That is not a risk to take lightly.
 
 

Prove this. Please. Show me one instance where this ever happened without some other circumstance weakening the Veil, or the demon having been summoned to Thedas before the possession took place.

 
Connor, Meredith's sister, Feynriel, Thrask's daughter, hell even Uldred is an example. Yes, he summoned the demon beforehand, but it shows that even a harrowed mage is not immune to demonic possession. Then there is the knowledge that the Veil naturally weakens at night, when people sleep.

Mages are gateways to demons. We are told this at every circumstance the mage threat is discussed. Even by other mages.  
 

Also, the Dalish don't practice Tranquility and haven't been wiped out by demons yet.

 
Our current track record of "Dalish keepers or seconds who safely practised magic" stands at an astonishing one out of four.
 
Not the best example.
 

Concerning the Harrowing and Tranquility, I am not against testing one's ability to resist temptation, but I do question the relevance of deciding beforehand if someone can or cannot do so. Even the wisest of man/woman can make mistake, and choosing to lobotomize or kill someone by deciding that the test will be a failure without even giving that person the chance to pass it is abhorrent.
People unfortunate enough to be mentally too weak should not be killed. If they're too dangerous to lead a normal life among other people, keep them safe away from them, yes, but at least treat them humanely. And keep searching for a way to allow them some day to live freely instead of being satisfied by a status quo that might be good for some people but clearly not for those who lost the birth lottery.

Problem is that abominations are kind of really, really dangerous. We kill them often enough because we're the PC, but the poor NPC's are slaughtered by the dozens when one pops up. Just stuffing mages too weak to resist in a corner and hope they never get possessed is waiting for a slaughter.

I care as much as you do about the people, but mages are part of the people too. And I think the current system is not rational, and if it aims at protecting citizens, mundane and magic, it fails because the reasoning behind is based on fear and superstitions.

If the mages in Inquisition have safe alternatives, I'm all for it. If they don't and just want freedom, consequences be damned... no, I'm not going to risk the lives of the majority for the convenience of a few.

Magic need a decent counter-power: I'm still trying to figure out why it has to be a religious order. I mean I understand why the Chantry would want to keep the mages for itself, that power is just too sweet to give up, I just don't understand how it's good for the common people.

You say "keep it to themselves" as if the Chantry commands mages. They don't. The Circles rule themselves, the templars are merely there to ensure the mages continue to follow the rules they themselves agreed on.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Monstersities?

 

A thousand years of peace, magic being used for the betterment of man, magic being used to defend Thedas from threats; you would label that monsterities? That useless?

 

There have been mishaps this true, but that occured on both sides of the spectrum usually in equal measure.

 

This system has kept millions, literally millions of people safe and secured from the danger of magic while at the same time also providing for and caring for the mages, is it perfect? No but it is a far cry from useless and it is definitely better then any presented alternatives.

 

 

 

Just like yours is a blatant platform of mage supremacy?

 

mishaps? apart from the very well known templar atrocities it is the direct cause of many mages turning to blood magic and entire dalish clans and apostates families being slaughtered in trying to bring them in. ALL of these are a result of the system.

 

that is not safety, claiming you've protected millions is exactly the fear mongering i'm talking about. Pretending you hold back a tide of evil which simply does not exist.

 

I do not advocate mage supremacy in the south. But my platform is one of emotion i make no bones about that, i appeal to people's humanity to see through the veil of threats and fears to cast aside their hatred and realise the oppression and suffering they've inflicted on fellow human beings, for selfish superstition

 

it is you guys who claim to be thinking critically and functionally yet every Speech is doomsday march designed to dehumanise mages to further your argument.

[TheKomandorShepard]

mishaps? apart from the very well known templar atrocities it is the direct cause of many mages turning to blood magic and entire dalish clans and apostates families being slaughtered in trying to bring them in. ALL of these are a result of the system.

 

that is not safety, claiming you've protected millions is exactly the fear mongering i'm talking about. Pretending you hold back a tide of evil which simply does not exist.

 

I do not advocate mage supremacy in the south. But my platform is one of emotion i make no bones about that, i appeal to people's humanity to see through the veil of threats and fears to cast aside their hatred and realise the oppression and suffering they've inflicted on fellow human beings, for selfish superstition

 

it is you guys who claim to be thinking critically and functionally yet every Speech is doomsday march designed to dehumanise mages to further your argument.

In first place those aren't superstitions because danger that mages present is real selfish yes as everything and that is how world works...

Mages reach for blood magic rarely because of chantry system mostly because they are humans and mages and same fate is for every criminal.Dalish and Tevinter show that saying that chantry makes blood mages it just ridiculous.

 

So yes mages are locked up as dangerous peoples or creatures peoples lock animals cus well "they are worse than us" then make self-righteous complains about locking other peoples ,same for criminals and many other peoples.

 

 

[Mimilette]

Problem is that abominations are kind of really, really dangerous. We kill them often enough because we're the PC, but the poor NPC's are slaughtered by the dozens when one pops up. Just stuffing mages too weak to resist in a corner and hope they never get possessed is waiting for a slaughter.


If the mages in Inquisition have safe alternatives, I'm all for it. If they don't and just want freedom, consequences be damned... no, I'm not going to risk the lives of the majority for the convenience of a few.


You say "keep it to themselves" as if the Chantry commands mages. They don't. The Circles rule themselves, the templars are merely there to ensure the mages continue to follow the rules they themselves agreed on.

 

I'm not saying mages too weak should be "put in a corner". I can perfectly understand the need to commit someone who's a danger for him/herself and others. You take precautions, and yes, it's a risk, but I believe it's worth it because it's the humane thing to do. You don't go around killing or lobotomizing people preemptively, I mean, even setting aside the moral aspect, it's just screaming for abuse.

 

The Chantry and Templars keep telling us about how mages outside of towers will automatically lead to the mass murder of the population, but I just don't see it. I keep giving the example of the Mage Collective in Ferelden, because if it's not an example of mages policing themselves without the population none the wiser, then I don't know what it is.

 

But I am curious though: is there a lot of "spontaneous" abominations in Tevinter (as in it happened by accident, not intentionally)? I have a hard time believing any society could work that way, which leads me to think that it must not really happen. If that is the case, then I do believe a solid education in a culture that does not condone slavery and with clear counter-power to magic would do wonder.

[lordsaren101]

I'm not saying mages too weak should be "put in a corner". I can perfectly understand the need to commit someone who's a danger for him/herself and others. You take precautions, and yes, it's a risk, but I believe it's worth it because it's the humane thing to do. You don't go around killing or lobotomizing people preemptively, I mean, even setting aside the moral aspect, it's just screaming for abuse.
 
The Chantry and Templars keep telling us about how mages outside of towers will automatically lead to the mass murder of the population, but I just don't see it. I keep giving the example of the Mage Collective in Ferelden, because if it's not an example of mages policing themselves without the population none the wiser, then I don't know what it is.
 
But I am curious though: is there a lot of "spontaneous" abominations in Tevinter (as in it happened by accident, not intentionally)? I have a hard time believing any society could work that way, which leads me to think that it must not really happen. If that is the case, then I do believe a solid education in a culture that does not condone slavery and with clear counter-power to magic would do wonder.

Most slaves in Tevinter live better than so called free folk in the South. People need to get off this slavery thing, especially since most of the south sells to Tevinter. Dont forget Orlesian noble keep slaves too.

[Tevinter Soldier]

In first place those aren't superstitions because danger that mages present is real selfish yes as everything and that is how world works...

Mages reach for blood magic rarely because of chantry system mostly because they are humans and mages and same fate is for every criminal.Dalish and Tevinter show that saying that chantry makes blood mages it just ridiculous.

 

So yes mages are locked up as dangerous peoples or creatures peoples lock animals cus well "they are worse than us" then make self-righteous complains about locking other peoples ,same for criminals and many other peoples.

 

 

 

and that right there sum's it up. a Mage is a person, not an animal nor a criminal and unless they commit a crime they should be treated as such.

 

Templars have been shown to been rapist, sadists and murders human filth should we lock up every templar due to their history and capacity of being scum? Of course not that would be disgraceful and yet here we see once again the deep seated hatred and fear spread by templar supporters.

 

"they are worse then us" this is what the rebellion is about, Liberation, Emancipation. You judge a person on what they have done not on what they may have the capacity to do.

 

Hell look at all the mages so weak they can't even light a candle without passing out, none of your fear campaigns even apply to them and yet they are locked up all the same. it's little more then prejudice and superstition a belief that mages = tevinter.

 

"they are worse then us" fear and hate.  

[raging_monkey]

Tevinter has its share of abominations but how many is unknown. It have something to do woth education or liberal use of tranquility.

[lordsaren101]

Its funny how all the sycophants whine about slavery in Tevinter, yet have no compunction about jailing all mages in towers for their entire lives. Hypocrisy? Methinks yes.