1428 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

perhaps if you stayed with one line of thought instead of jumping all over the place it would help.

Fear, is, Fear anyone on the street could decided to murder you that "real" that's not imagined. suggesting that its logic and not completely rational to fear being murdered walking down the street is..........concerning. 

 

Your entire point is POTENTIAL danger that is fear.

and you're damn right a person deserves and demands more respect then an animal. it's not hypcritical at all mundanes can't cast magic and apparently their dumb, stupid, panicky animals. I still wouldn't suggest there "worse then a mage" (although in fairness your making a great case for it) 

 

a bear is in the cage specifically is because its a ****** bear, it's an instinctual animal that doesn't understand people aren't food. HUMANS mage or otherwise have the capacity to reason and generally don't attack other people without provocation. equating mages are no better then an animal with out self awareness is insulting.

 

again you equate mages to animals, truly disturbing thinking.

Well i stay at 1 line of the thought pretty sadly you ignore that completly screaming over and over "FEAR!".

How many times you walked on the street you were a slain because i did that a lot for my entire life and i wasn't sure there is tiny tiny chance you will be killed then.Sadly you seem to fail that threat something pose isn't equal to threat pose i tried use most obvious and simple examples sadly it failed.

1 killed individual isn't equal to destroying whole city that full of individuals...

 

You proved my point if i see mages as worse than me you can't rly argue... nor you can with peoples in thedas.

 

Animals also have reason doesn't peoples kill for food? Doesn't peoples kill to survive? Difference is that peoples can do that in much more ways than animals.Some time black peoples were worse than white peoples that was normal then and peoples had reasoning smiliar to yours that you have toward animals.

 

Disturbing is that you ignore that some things are more or less dangerous than others and are thus treated proportionately to danger they pose to society.

[EmissaryofLies]

Now we get orange, yellow and purple

"Blue, yellow, pink, whatever man, just keep bringing me that!"

[Kinsz]

I meant that the entirety of Kirkwall, not just the Gallows, is worse than every Circle. The malign effects of the region affect nonmages too. And if it only comes from a mage giving into a demon's demands, we should see that in a completely controlled environment, abominations still happen... something that we have never, ever seen.

 

Also, the Dalish don't practice Tranquility and haven't been wiped out by demons yet.

 

The dalish "may" not practice tranquility that didnt stop Keeper Marethari from asking me to make feynriel tranquil :-)

[EmissaryofLies]

The dalish "may" not practice tranquility that didnt stop Keeper Marethari from asking to make feynriel tranquil :-)

Extraordinary circumstances(somniari which are extremely rare) and only as a last resort.

[Kinsz]

Extraordinary circumstances(somniari which are extremely rare) and only as a last resort.

 

So they practice it if need be then?

 

Anyways there isn't going to ever be a " everyone happy" type of scenario when it comes to this Mage vs the people ( not just templars) thing , one party is going to get the short end of the stick no matter what and for the greater good it should be the mages.

[EmissaryofLies]

So they practice it if need be then?

No, they do not.

The Pc character is the one to make the call, not Marethari. Not the Dalish. If you really want to get technical.

[Kinsz]

No, they do not.

The Pc character is the one to make the call, not Marethari. Not the Dalish. If you really want to get technical.

 

Thats your defense ? really?

[Keroko]

A demon outside the Fade.
 
And I'm referring here to forcible possession. Mages dumb enough to allow themselves to get possessed are another story... but they can also be exorcized, from what we know of Connor. And that has less to do with willpower and just making sure that everyone knows enough to not let a demon talk its way into possessing you.

Oh, well, forced possession is not a thing. Even Ulric had to torture people and force them to give in to the demon. That's why Cullen is still out there in his cage, not an abomination. Problem is, demons seem to be able to do some form of mental manipulation to make their ideas seem like the best thing ever, unless you're really strong of mind. That's why your party backstabs you during Night Terrors in DA2, most even tell you so after you get their apologies.
 

Marethari's record was perfect, as far as we know, until A New Path. Zathrian's was perfect until Nature of the Beast. We see them in moments of conflict to bring the PC into dramatic situations.

 
And? Still shows that even for dalish, all it takes is one wrong step.
 

The police are public servants. The chain of command can be different, but the templars should be obligated to protect the mages first, not the Chantry.

Protect the mages first from who, exactly?
 

That's a fair point of a view. And we must certainly come up with a better way to address magic in Thedas.

Agreed.

But... wait... this means we've run out of things to endlessly debate in circles over!
 

"A non-mage/non-Templar Hawke can break the compulsion without help, but if Hawke either does not have a mage in the party or chooses to break the compulsion personally, Idunna will be killed immediately with no option to keep her alive or question her. If Idunna is killed, information that she would have otherwise given can be found in her room on a desk." - http://dragonage.wik...nemies_Among_Us

I stand corrected.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Well i stay at 1 line of the thought pretty sadly you ignore that completly screaming over and over "FEAR!".

How many times you walked on the street you were a slain because i did that a lot for my entire life and i wasn't sure there is tiny tiny chance you will be killed then.Sadly you seem to fail that threat something pose isn't equal to threat pose i tried use most obvious and simple examples sadly it failed.

1 killed individual isn't equal to destroying whole city that full of individuals...

 

You proved my point if i see mages as worse than me you can't rly argue... nor you can with peoples in thedas.

 

Animals also have reason doesn't peoples kill for food? Doesn't peoples kill to survive? Difference is that peoples can do that in much more ways than animals.Some time black peoples were worse than white peoples that was normal then and peoples had reasoning smiliar to yours that you have toward animals.

 

Disturbing is that you ignore that some things are more or less dangerous than others and are thus treated proportionately to danger they pose to society.

 

what a load, you again say you see mages as "worse then me" that is hatred and bigotry by definition. 

and again you carry on OH they can destory a city. that is fear.

 

stop trying to side track what i'm saying, you dismiss any other "potential" threat but focus on mages its pure paranoia. their people and frankly anyone willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither.

[EmissaryofLies]

Thats your defense ? really?

Yes.

As presenting things out of context to drive your agenda is your offense.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, well, forced possession is not a thing. Even Ulric had to torture people and force them to give in to the demon. That's why Cullen is still out there in his cage, not an abomination. Problem is, demons seem to be able to do some form of mental manipulation to make their ideas seem like the best thing ever, unless you're really strong of mind. That's why your party backstabs you during Night Terrors in DA2, most even tell you so after you get their apologies.

Cullen wasn't a mage, so he wouldn't have been an abomination anyway. As for demonic mind control... well, what we have is so incredibly vague that making decent policy decisions here is rather too difficult and based largely on opinion; you think that there's greater risk than I do, and neither can really prove it. I suspect we just have to wait and see what mage victory brings us in Inquisition.

 

 

Protect the mages first from who, exactly?

Demons.

[Kinsz]

Yes.

As presenting things out of context to drive your agenda is your offense.

 

As far as im concerned i didnt present anything out of context , it was implied that the dalish didnt believe in making people tranquil , as in its just not something they do so i brought up the fact that Marethari asked me to make feynriel tranquil which proves that they would in fact make someone tranquil if they had to.

 

Your defense was ....."well she wasnt going to do it herself" , im guessing that if you ever hired a pro killer to kill someone and get caught your defense in court would be "well i didnt kill them myself i just hired someone else to do it so i shouldnt get locked up"? 

[Kinsz]

Cullen wasn't a mage, so he wouldn't have been an abomination anyway. As for demonic mind control... well, what we have is so incredibly vague that making decent policy decisions here is rather too difficult and based largely on opinion; you think that there's greater risk than I do, and neither can really prove it. I suspect we just have to wait and see what mage victory brings us in Inquisition.

 

 

 

You dont have to be a mage to be turned into an abomination as shown in DA 2 , all it takes is  a blood mage capturing you then performing a ritual to summon the demon into your body.

 

At least thats how it went with a few templars in DA 2.

[TheKomandorShepard]

what a load, you again say you see mages as "worse then me" that is hatred and bigotry by definition. 

and again you carry on OH they can destory a city. that is fear.

 

stop trying to side track what i'm saying, you dismiss any other "potential" threat but focus on mages its pure paranoia. their people and frankly anyone willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither.

Same i can tell about your view about animals.

 

That was hypothetical scenario but also truth because i see everything else worse than me.

 

I don't i pretty much pointed you why i may don't care about child with a slingshot and why i would care about guy with machine gun or bomb i think pretty goverments have same point that i have in that matter.Well im glad trade someone else freedom for my secuirty as all almost every human not mention that peoples do trade their freedom for security since society exist
.

[Keroko]

Cullen wasn't a mage, so he wouldn't have been an abomination anyway. As for demonic mind control... well, what we have is so incredibly vague that making decent policy decisions here is rather too difficult and based largely on opinion; you think that there's greater risk than I do, and neither can really prove it. I suspect we just have to wait and see what mage victory brings us in Inquisition.

Templars can become abominations (we saw this during Enemies Among Us in DA2), it just takes a mage's assistance to do it.
 
But yes, we'll see what happens in Inquisition. I myself hope that there will at least be some negative repercussion to full-blown mage freedom. Otherwise the choice between mages or templars becomes a rather poor one based more on how much of a jerk you are rather than one based on the argument which is better.
 

Demons.

That's something they can't do, really. That's part of the problem. The struggles mages face against demons is one that happens in the fade, a place templars can't easily reach.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Same i can tell about your view about animals.

 

That was hypothetical scenario but also truth because i see everything else worse than me.

 

I don't i pretty much pointed you why i may don't care about child with a slingshot and why i would care about guy with machine gun or bomb i think pretty goverments have same point that i have in that matter.Well im glad trade someone else freedom for my secuirty as all almost every human.

 

this again your really struggling if you honestly think an animal has the same capability to understand communicate and reason as person go jump in a shark tank. suggesting mages don't have self awarness or share commonality of any other person is just a straight lie.

 

superority complex is self evident but thanks for confirming.

 

once again back to using objects, no this is a about what a grown person DOES! people go out and get weapons to use them, this is a disengunish argument and not a parallel to the problem. MAGES ARE BORN WITH MAGIC, its not equated to somebody going and getting a bomb or a machine because people acquire bombs and machines in order to use them against people its their sole purpose.

 

and no most civilised people would not sacrifice the liberty of innocent people for their own safety they understand the quote, many wrote entire books dedicated to the subject, many fought and died for the idea. you don't seem to grasp notions of tolerance and equality and justice at all they appear to be a foreign concepts to you. 

 

if you don't fear being attacked walking down the street by a mundane why would you fear the city being blown up by a mage. simple concept, most people have no intention of harming you.

[Br3admax]

Templars can become abominations (we saw this during Enemies Among Us in DA2), it just takes a mage's assistance to do it.

Technically, no they can't. An abomination has to be a mage. 

[Pierce Miller]

Technically, no they can't. An abomination has to be a mage. 

Templars can still be possessed though, It's just that they're far less dangerous. 

[raging_monkey]

this again your really struggling if you honestly think an animal has the same capability to understand communicate and reason as person go jump in a shark tank. suggesting mages don't have self awarness or share commonality of any other person is just a straight lie.
 
superority complex is self evident but thanks for confirming.
 
once again back to using objects, no this is a about what a grown person DOES! people go out and get weapons to use them, this is a disengunish argument and not a parallel to the problem. MAGES ARE BORN WITH MAGIC, its not equated to somebody going and getting a bomb or a machine because people acquire bombs and machines in order to use them against people its their sole purpose.
 
and no most civilised people would not sacrifice the liberty of innocent people for their own safety they understand the quote, many wrote entire books dedicated to the subject, many fought and died for the idea. you don't seem to grasp notions of tolerance and equality and justice at all they appear to be a foreign concepts to you. 
 
if you don't fear being attacked walking down the street by a mundane why would you fear the city being blown up by a mage. simple concept, most people have no intention of harming you.

he wont listen my friend* shakes head in annoyance* his arguements are broken and generally paranoid best let it go since he will always go in circles

[Br3admax]

Templars can still be possessed though, It's just that they're far less dangerous. 

Still not an abomination. 

[EmissaryofLies]

As far as im concerned i didnt present anything out of context , it was implied that the dalish didnt believe in making people tranquil , as in its just not something they do so i brought up the fact that Marethari asked me to make feynriel tranquil which proves that they would in fact make someone tranquil if they had to.
 
Your defense was ....."well she wasnt going to do it herself" , im guessing that if you ever hired a pro killer to kill someone and get caught your defense in court would be "well i didnt kill them myself i just hired someone else to do it so i shouldnt get locked up"?

 

It proves nothing.

The Dalish do not believe in tranquility. The Dalish did not make Feynriel tranquil. These are the facts.

 

The PC is the one who judges if the dreamer Feynriel is too weak to endure. The PC is the one to make the call. Not Marethari. 

 

Your 'killer' analogy is inappropriate to this matter.

[Pierce Miller]

Still not an abomination. 

In the original sense of the word it is

[Keroko]

Technically, no they can't. An abomination has to be a mage.

They can, and they have.

[TheKomandorShepard]

this again your really struggling if you honestly think an animal has the same capability to understand communicate and reason as person go jump in a shark tank. suggesting mages don't have self awarness or share commonality of any other person is just a straight lie.

 

superority complex is self evident but thanks for confirming.

 

once again back to using objects, no this is a about what a grown person DOES! people go out and get weapons to use them, this is a disengunish argument and not a parallel to the problem. MAGES ARE BORN WITH MAGIC, its not equated to somebody going and getting a bomb or a machine because people acquire bombs and machines in order to use them against people its their sole purpose.

 

and no most civilised people would not sacrifice the liberty of innocent people for their own safety they understand the quote, many wrote entire books dedicated to the subject, many fought and died for the idea. you don't seem to grasp notions of tolerance and equality and justice at all they appear to be a foreign concepts to you. 

 

if you don't fear being attacked walking down the street by a mundane why would you fear the city being blown up by a mage. simple concept, most people have no intention of harming you.

Pretty much same argument was used about black peoples that currently now is wrong because society says so i can use same toward mages normals humans dominated them so that means mages are less capable than normal humans...

 

I call that life.

 

This is about being mage what means colosal danger to society and whole world mare are born with destructive and unstable weapon that can't be taken (safe for RoT) they are treated by humans as such end of the story.So to repeat myself they are gigantic danger to society by their very nature and they are treated as such everything in our would as well.

 

And civilised peoples did that a lot of times and word innocent pretty is up to person.Justice doesn't exist outside human side and can mean different things for different peoples for me it means nothing just attempt to make yourself look better.

 

Because chances that i will be attacked by serial killer is very very low for many reasons chances that mages will blow me up are high enough (as da univesre shows us) considering unstable nature of mages and magic i can be blown up because single mage decided he wanted revenge on someone so he created curse.Not mention damage that serial killer can do and mage can do.

So no you can't compare serial killer to mage that destroys veil and world have to face horde of superpowerful dangerous creatures.

[Br3admax]

They can, and they have.

Gameplay/story segregation. An abomination is a possessed mage. Anything else is just possession.