1428 réponses à ce sujet

[john-in-france]

I believe in the original ethic of the Templar order: To protect the people of Thedas from evil magic, and to protect innocent mages from both themselves and the common people who would kill them.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I don't justify, I just don't consider it crimes, I understand all the points, and it's all a fair game. I also like to talk about mages as in ''us'' instead of ''them'', as I always roleplay a mage. 

 

If your not with mages your against them. there's no fair game.

 

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” ”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.”

 

i so hope i can quote Benjamin franklin to viv.

[Master Warder Z_]

their mages apparently roam free

Their part of the circle I'd presume.

So their practices would be allowed by the Chantry if that were the case.

Either way though in no nation do mages run free.

[KainD]

If your not with mages your against them. there's no fair game.

 

Yes, and it all depends on whether I am a mage or not. 

[the inquisitor94]

I will side with mages, as i am one of them. The circle mages have suffered enough in some cities (Kirkwall was way off the trails. Meredith crazy old female-dog). On the other hand people have suffered much because some mages are indeed crazy, lunatics, evil or power mad, they should be put down but not every mage should pay the price of their acts. I would like to rebuild the circle in a more humane way and mages to be free to rule their selves and live under a normal not judgmental way, where every act is punishable. They could live in the circle but also be able to go outside, be in love with someone, have families and learn that magic is a gift not a curse, a blight.

[KainD]

Either way though in no nation do mages run free.

 

Yes they do - Tevinter. If a mage is not a slave, then the mage is free. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

you do know what systematic oppression is yes?

If mages are oppressed i wouldn't mind being oppressed and many other peoples would like such oppression as well...

[Tevinter Soldier]

Their part of the circle I'd presume.

So their practices would be allowed by the Chantry if that were the case.

Either way though in no nation do mages run free.

 

the chantry forbids mages having political power, in navarra they are said to have "mortalitasi" as advisors running the country through a pathetic king.

 

Rivain see's mages coming and going and the circle is nothing but a formality. and both Navarra and Rivain allow possesion which the chantry views as a big big sin. tevinter mages run the country.

 

there's no what the chantry "permits" its what they have the power to do.

 

Rivain is far and remote, Navarra has the best land forces in thedas. the chantry isn't going to call a march these states.

 

for someone so keen to read between the lines read up on the WOT of these two countries and tell me the chantry "allows" any of this. there just powerless to stop it.

[KainD]

If mages are oppressed i wouldn't mind being oppressed and many other peoples would like such oppression as well...

 

You act like an S&M person who see's someone being whipped, and be like: ''Hey I wouldn't mind that, I'd love that. it's perfectly fine.''

[Panda]

I haven't still seen mage freedom option that would work without it being mage dominance

[RobRam10]

Just kill the Templars! KILL THEM ALL!

[TheKomandorShepard]

You act like an S&M person who see's someone being wiped, and be like: ''Hey I wouldn't mind that, I'd love that. it's perfectly fine.''

  Yes because every morning templars have ritual which involves torture of mages...

Pretty much that horrible torture

[KaiserShep]

Sod it. I'm just gonna wipe out the Templars, 'cause frak the po-lice.

[Eveangaline]

I don't think the templars are evil but they were ultimately a temporary solution to a permanent issue. The problems mages face and the world faces from mages isn't something that's ever going to go away, they're as much a part of the dragon age universe as rain. Whatever solution comes up, the templars aren't going to be involved and I think it's the time to get them out of the way so we can continue inching forward to whatever the endgame with mages will be.

 

Whatever the endgame for mages is, it isn't a system where a religious leader in Orlais can put a fereldan citizen who may not follow her religion to death.

[Han Shot First]

A pox on both their houses.

 

I'm going to have the Inquisitor show little tolerance towards any faction that has become dysfunctional and is sowing chaos. Rebelling mages and Templars that have forgotten they also have a role to protect their charges, can except little mercy. Both will bend the knee or burn for it.

[Tevinter Soldier]

If mages are oppressed i wouldn't mind being oppressed and many other peoples would like such oppression as well...

 

so no.

[MisterJB]

He's got a point. If it's a choice betwee living in a two room cottage breaking your black in the fields so you havê enough to eat after paying the lord his due, meanwhile hoping the Winter won't be too harsh só you and yours don't starve or freeze and that no group of thieves comes along or living in Emperor Drakon's former Palace, I'm going with the latter.
Mages havê a good life compared to your average peasant.

[Tevinter Soldier]

He's got a point. If it's a choice betwee living in a two room cottage breaking your black in the fields so you havê enough to eat after paying the lord his due, meanwhile hoping the Winter won't be too harsh só you and yours don't starve or freeze and that no group of thieves comes along or living in Emperor Drakon's former Palace, I'm going with the latter.
Mages havê a good life compared to your average peasant.

 

choice being the operative word.

[Milan92]

Yeah.

 

Like, do mages have to work all day? Do they pay taxes?

[TheKomandorShepard]

so no.

As i said mages aren't oppressed unless in eyes pro-mages that see circles as torture chamber.As i said everything chantry says about mages is pure fact and they don't spread prejudice against mages they spread pure truth and circle is law centred on mages not because they see them as worse but because they are dangerous and in fact mages live in best conditions in thedas. 

[Blue Item]

I'm actually not sure. Playing through DA:O and 2 again, although mages seem to favored, there are several instances where mages really do seem to be the problem without any outside prodding from the Templars. Now, in an ideal world, mages would be able to get the training they need without some sort of restrictive system like the Circles, but Thedas is definitely not an ideal world.

 

Connor doesn't get brought up a lot in these discussions, probably because most of the mage vs. templar stuff is really focused on in DA2, but I think he has a lot of relevance on the conversation as one of the few times that shows what happens when a mage gets possesed and its not immediately dealt with. He can slaughter an entire town if you don't intervene, something I doubt that anyone other than a mage could reasonably pull off alone. The fact that Connor was initially suckered into the deal to save his father just makes things worse -- how many other newly awakened mages are going to fall prey to the same thing without a system like the Circle?

 

On the other hand, while the Circle in some form may be necessary, its implementation in many places is absolutely deplorable. For Templars, who are supposed to protect the mages as well as protect people from them, to immediately lock the doors and then go get permission (and presumably reinforcements) to kill them all is pretty terrible. Mages trying to escape should not be punished with a year of solitary confinement, as that is pointlessly cruel -- if you really believe they're so much of a threat, just kill them and be done with it. And while Kirkwall is already a hellhole, whoever decided that the Circle should be based in the Gallows, which was carefully designed to break the spirit of the enslaved, should really be sent to live there themselves. There really needs to be some sort of actually effective oversight system in place, although I have no idea how that would properly be accomplished -- the best way I could see it coming about would be to give the mages some actual power, so they could bargain for improved conditions with the Templars instead of being solely under their control.

 

If I absolutely had to pick a side, between all mages free and the current Circle system I'd probably favor free mages, given that there's at least the chance that mages would be able to identify and train the newly awakened while also not succumbing to corruption. Given how crapsack of a world Thedas is this probably isn't a large chance, but at least it hopefully disincentivizes turning to blood magic and demons, because mages wouldn't be threatened with horrible punishments or death so often.

[FiveThreeTen]

While pro-chantry\circles mages exist, I suppose most pro-templars never play as a mage?

[Yinello]

Yeah.

 

Like, do mages have to work all day? Do they pay taxes?

 

Bad fashion tax.

 

Though I do wonder how exactly it all works in Thedas. Do the farmers give some money/produce to the landlord/castle owner/king/queen? Do mages provide services for free? 

[Lumix19]

Bad fashion tax.

 

Though I do wonder how exactly it all works in Thedas. Do the farmers give some money/produce to the landlord/castle owner/king/queen? Do mages provide services for free? 

Presumably mages do provide their services for free, the exception being enchanting and potion making as that's responsible for much of the Circle's income.

[Tevinter Soldier]

As i said mages aren't oppressed unless in eyes pro-mages that see circles as torture chamber.As i said everything chantry says about mages is pure fact and they don't spread prejudice against mages they spread pure truth and circle is law centred on mages not because they see them as worse but because they are dangerous and in fact mages live in best conditions in thedas. 

 

i'm trying to put this as nicely as i can, i don't believe you have a firm grasp of the subject i'm talking about. do some researcg understand what systematic oppression is. (it's a big subject to large for to explain in one post) Once you understand the topic if you like we can continue this in PM's.

 

but i'm not going to continue to talk to someone about systematic oppression mages face, when they believe because mages aren't being tortured everyday it's not occurring.