296 réponses à ce sujet

[Tenebrae]

How can I put this...

 

You don't need genitalia to commit rape.  Rape doesn't necessarily involve sexual intercourse, or penetration by a penis.   And it's about power, not sex or in this case, the power of transformation.  We don't know if darkspawn have genitalia or not.  I've never seen that confirmed nor denied anywhere.   And trust me, a lack of a sex drive does not preclude rape.  

 

The word "violated" is very telling to me.  That strikes me as a calculated word choice.

 

I hardly view it as rape, while i do find force feeding someone darkspawn flesh to be a high form of abuse. And yes i consider force feeding you someting harmful as being violated it is not rape as there is nothing sexual about it.

[Ibn_Shisha]

It's really disturbing to me how many people equate "mature" or "dark" with sexualized violence and lack of female agency.
In a fantasy world, it's perfectly acceptable to ask why those things are required. That doesn't mean I need to stick to Pokemon because my delicate fee fees are hurt. It means I'm questioning their narrative choices. I still play the games even though I have problems with it, just like people who hate the Dalish or the hair options or whatevr.

Likely because any fantasy setting has some connection to reality, and therefore things that happen in reality are going to be present in fantasy as well. Arguably more so for the current topic as the vast majority of fantasy draws inspiration from periods of our history where that sort of thing was prevalent.

[bazzybond]

I honestly thought this thread would get moved elsewhere now... I just hope the thread wont get picked up by the wrong people who don't know anything about the game and tear it apart and give the game terrible press.

What we should all take from this is... hornyvivienne is the best name ever.

[Grieving Natashina]

The anger in that post is not directed toward you two. It is directed at the situation to which I am referring. 

I'm with you on the anger, but please next time, try to add something that lets us know that you're venting at the situation, not at us.  

 

 

I hardly view it as rape, while i do find force feeding someone darkspawn flesh to be a high form of abuse. And yes i consider froce feeding you someting harmful as being violated it is not rape as there is nothing sexual about it.

 

And with this bit of astonishing ignorance, I'm out.

[Tevinter Soldier]

It's really disturbing to me how many people equate "mature" or "dark" with sexualized violence and lack of female agency.

In a fantasy world, it's perfectly acceptable to ask why those things are required. That doesn't mean I need to stick to Pokemon because my delicate fee fees are hurt. It means I'm questioning their narrative choices. I still play the games even though I have problems with it, just like people who hate the Dalish or the hair options or whatevr.

 

I think the disagreement comes not from not liking it, but viewing it as something that needs to be "fixed."

 

It's is part of plot, does anybody really believe it was put because the designers are bunch of sexist pigs that hate women?

 

If not then the choice was quite clearly done for the impact it has on the story. its the writers setting the scene and tone of the game. this is fundamentally artistic choice. which goes beyond aesthetics.

 

to put it another way, you can rag on hair or the dalish. just don't ask the Dalish be changed to suit what you like. because that stomps on the artists making the dalish how they want them to be.

it's totally acceptable to not like something. 

but don't ask artistic choice to be changed because they displease you. (and this extends to all you whiny ME3 ending people)

 

you would do this with any other medium? if not why not?

why don't you allow video games the freedom of music or paintings?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm with you on the anger, but please next time, try to add something that lets us know that you're venting at the situation, not at us.  

Sorry. 

[LtColSpear]

Feminists will never be satisfied. Thedas is a Matriarchy. The chantry is run by women. Scrawny looking women who care mostly about their hair can wield massive weapons and armor. Feminists will never be satisfied until anything masculine is completely and utterly castrated from gaming (a predominantly male space). Feminists care more about the character creator and hair styles than the actual game itself. Feminists are professional victims.

[MissOuJ]

Most of those statistics have been debunked.

look up Sexual assault explained whith magnets.   

Oh but it happens i know all to well. but you are just as likely as the guy next to you to be assaulted. infact He is more likely to be attacked if you just want to use figures factoring in Prison rape whitch is pretty freekin high.

 

I put up actual statistics, and your only source to debunk them is a video by a woman who works for A Voice for Men?

 

I'm done.

[Grieving Natashina]

Sorry. 

It's okay hun.  <hugs>

 

 And now I'm out of the thread for real this time.  Especially with lovely comments such as what LtCole posted above me.  

[karushna5]

I think the disagreement comes not from not liking it, but viewing it as something that needs to be "fixed."

 

It's is part of plot, does anybody really believe it was put because the designers are bunch of sexist pigs that hate women?

 

If not then the choice was quite clearly done for the impact it has on the story. its the writers setting the scene and tone of the game. this is fundamentally artistic choice. which goes beyond aesthetics.

 

to put it another way, you can rag on hair or the dalish. just don't ask the Dalish be changed to suit what you like. because that stomps on the artists making the dalish how they want them to be.

it's totally acceptable to not like something. 

but don't ask artistic choice to be changed because they displease you. (and this extends to all you whiny ME3 ending people)

 

you would do this with any other medium? if not why not?

why don't you allow video games the freedom of music or paintings?

 

freedom of expression comes with the freedom of criticism. You can't have one without the other, and many people have criticized art and movies, and music for a wide number of reasons, and this is pretty accepted in the art world that art does not just exist and it does get criticized that is why there are art critics. You can make whatever you want, but people can say it is bad or not worthwhile depending on any number of elements.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Okay, first of all, I have been socially conditioned to be afraid of it, and I've been told that if I don't do XYZ it's my fault. Men who get physically assaulted (which they do face more usually than women) don't get asked what they were doing walking there at that time or how they were dressed or if they smiled at their attacker or if they might have given any indication that they did, in fact, want to be assaulted, deep down. Nor are they asked if it really happened, or accused that they made it up for attention or to get back at their ex-friend because reasons.

 

And I'm very much more likely to be sexually assaulted - and that's saying nothing about sexual harrasment, which makes me feel unsafe in a regular basis. I'm quite literally constantly reminded - by the media, by the men around me, by my peers - that sexual assault happends, and when it does, it better not be "my fault" because otherwise I'm going to get zero support.

 

But let's talk about statistics:

 

In the United States, a woman gets sexually assaulted approximately every 2 minutes.

 

In my country, the goverment doesn't even keep rape statistic, but an EU study found that almost half of women reported sexual or physical abuse, and that a third of women in the EU have suffered sexual violence.

 

Please don't try to invalidate my experience by telling be "it's probably not gonna happen".

 

For ****'s sake.

 

I saw my father die before my eyes. Do you think Leadra's death was pleasing to me? It wasn't. It stirred very, very bad memories, and I felt like **** for days afterwards because of it. I hate hate playing that portion of the game to this day.

 

Does that mean I think Bioware shouldn't have included that scene? Of course not. It's their game, it has a big fat M18+ slapped on it, so you know what the hell you're going into. They shouldn't not portray war because war happens in the real world. They shouldn't not portray the Taint because people die of diseases in the real world. They shouldn't not portray religious fanatism because those wackos exist in the real world. And they sure as **** shouldn't censor their own game and not portray sexism and rape because it happens in the real world.

 

What they shouldn't do is condone any of that, and they don't. From there, Bioware can show whatever atrocity they damn well please in their game. 

[Sully13]

 

Whoa, why are you attacking me?!?  I had a guy friend of mine back in high school that did get raped, and was laughed at by the local cops.  He was raped by a group of women, no less.  I agree with you.

 

 

Same here.   The fact that guys get dismissed more often than not if they are rape victims is f*cking wrong and disgusting, no matter how you slice it.

 

No i tgink he was agreeing. 

the "Studdy" that made up the 1 in 4 statistic pretty mutch said all a guy had to do was Lie and it was rape but guys had to be eithe fored to be penitrated or forced to penetrate. while women had simply feel unsafe. the actual statistic was arround 1 in 44  for men and 1 in 46 for women. but this if from memory check out girl writes What for the facts.  

[Ceoldoren]

Feminists will never be satisfied. Thedas is a Matriarchy. The chantry is run by women. Scrawny looking women who care mostly about their hair can wield massive weapons and armor. Feminists will never be satisfied until anything masculine is completely and utterly castrated from gaming (a predominantly male space). Feminists care more about the character creator and hair styles than the actual game itself. Feminists are professional victims.

Really man ?

 

I don't agree with the idea of getting rid of darker elements simply because they're morally wrong. But this is not the reason anyone is upset about these kinds of things.

 

But then, I'm pretty sure you're a troll, so I don't know why I bothered to make this.

[Osena109]

I have to admit i find it odd there is straight Gay and lesbian and  Interspecies erotica  but banging the black chick is taboo wtf Bioware?

[Tenebrae]

 

And with this bit of astonishing ignorance, I'm out.

 

 

Yes how very mature of you, when someone does not agree with how you use a certain word as an all-encompassing umbrella to describe a situation they must be ignorant.

 

I was not aware that you held absolute authority on what is encompassed by the word, but since you seem to choose to use personal attacks in your argument it's a good thing that you’re "out".

[Ceoldoren]

I have to admit i find it odd there is straight Gay and lesbian and  Interspecies erotica  but banging the black chick is taboo wtf Bioware?

Did you ever think that Viv is simply not interested in sleeping with you ? '

 

It has nothing to do with her being black. That's ridiculous.

[volkoff]

Sexist attitudes and practices being mirrored in our escapist media without criticism are reflections of "real" misogyny, and they can have harmful real-life consequences.

 

Media doesn't exit in a vacuum.

 

games, books, movies, they tell a story. a story about a person or an event or whatever. they can come across sexism in their story, and that shouldn't be a problem. if that's a problem then we can ban all violence all bad words. basicly everything and anything from the media. the study you linked. let me rephrase that. that small piece of text you linked says ''The results of two experiments supported the hypothesis''  ''for sexist men, exposure to sexist humor can promote the behavioral release of prejudice against women.''  they were already sexist, it doesnt make people sexist. it's like letting a psychopath watch dexter, it's bound to give him some idea's.
 

 

Yes an no, a woman in a video game being harassed is indeed really problematic if the game acknowledge that as a good thing, messages in stories are powerful tools, otherwise they would not existed since, well ever.

If you pass a message that women are week and victims, that will translate in criminal assaults in real life, criminals do not want fair fights, since they are cowards. So yes your story has a lot of impact if you are middle famous.

 

games are entertainment, if people arent able to differentiate between entertainment and real life then our educational system has failed not only utterly but completely. those people probably dont have to capacity to differentiate between reality and fantasy and should be locked in a psych ward because they're probably psychotic. beside what you're claiming stands exactly opposite of what some study's have concluded.

http://www.dailymail...udy-claims.html

first google pop up i could find.
 

 

Ok, just going to make one post with my view point. Men may not be sexualized in the media(movies, commercials , TV sitcoms ect) but, we are constantly portrayed as ignorant dumb fucks. One only has to watch an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond or some other sitcom wherein the wife is portrayed as some etheral wise woman and the man is some dumb **** lucky enough too of married her. This happens constantly on TV sitcoms, talk shows and other forms of media/entertainment. Now with that said sexism sucks and has no place in the modern world. But, both genders male and female seem too engage in it in one form or the other so, I don't see it ending anytime soon. PS. Please don't kill me BSN.

 

wait, what ? what planet do you live on ? ever seen commercials ? men are sexualized in their way. they parade their 6-pack. their muscles, their perfect hair and whatever. they're draped half naked across the damn screen. sure it might not be to the extend that women get sexualized. but still.


 

[Tevinter Soldier]

freedom of expression comes with the freedom of criticism. You can't have one without the other, and many people have criticized art and movies, and music for a wide number of reasons, and this is pretty accepted in the art world that art does not just exist and it does get criticized that is why there are art critics. You can make whatever you want, but people can say it is bad or not worthwhile depending on any number of elements.

 

and no ones say you can't not like or your voice your displeasure at it.

but you don't ask it to be removed that things can only happen the way you feel is acceptable.

 

there's a word for wanting things to be CHANGED to suit your point of view. its not criticism its censorship.

 

when you want things done your way it cross the line, take Charles Willmott for example. great artist obsessed with the form of the female body.

Rag on his paintings all you want............. but don't demand he not paint scantly clad women.

[leaguer of one]

freedom of expression comes with the freedom of criticism. You can't have one without the other, and many people have criticized art and movies, and music for a wide number of reasons, and this is pretty accepted in the art world that art does not just exist and it does get criticized that is why there are art critics. You can make whatever you want, but people can say it is bad or not worthwhile depending on any number of elements.

Sure you can criticize other works but it's only valid if a point is made not when a agenda and bias is pushed.

[Tenebrae]

The amusing part is that the same people that would ridicule some busy body that claims games are turning kids in to killer would then turn around and say that misogynistic ,sexists or racists themes in games are turning are people into misogynists, raciest or sexists.

 

I wonder if the can see sheer amount of hypocrisy, my bet is on no.

[EmperorKarino]

If even Bioware and David Gaider aren't progressive enough for you, then it seems you're just looking for something to complain about to validate your victim status.

 

ran out of likes for today, so here is +1 like in message form.

[EmperorKarino]

I don't understand the argument "It's something that is incredibly prevalent in real life to the extent that every single woman on the planet has to face it... therefore it shouldn't be used in media so much". Doesn't how common it is in real life explain why it's used so frequently in media?

 

I do think rape stories are overused, particuarly in video games, but if what people are saying about real life statistics and experiences are true then if anything it's being under-represented in media.

 

ran out of likes for today, so here is +1 like in message form.

[Ceoldoren]

You must be Slow in the head its racist that we can't romance her but we can have romance with Qunari and Dwarfs and elves that's beastislity

No, that's not racist, how is that in anyway racist ?

 

Just because you can romance a character of a certain race and you can't romance someone of another race does not mean that the devs did it because they don't want you to romance that character. They did it because they didn't think a romance arc would fit that character. Or perhaps she's already with someone. 

[EmperorKarino]

Don't get me wrong; the topic is an important one and a reasoned discussion about it can be very valuable.

 

The discussion between David Gaider and the Tumblrers, however, is utter nonsense.

 

ran out of likes for today so here is +1 like in message form.