296 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorKarino]

I'm not quite sure how the method of reproduction of the unambiguous monsters of the series fit here. The Darkspawn kill everything they can, and the women are raped and turning into broodmothers because it's what they do. Darkspawn don't even think about sexism or whatever, the logic is, if women can give birth to dwarves, humans et all, they can be modfied to give birth to us. It's monstruous of course, but they are monsters. It's just being sorta pragamatic about it.

 

ran out of likes for today, so here is +1 like in message form.

[Tenebrae]

I think its a case of you can't cure stupid. What you said was either profoundly stupid or you are being willfully ignorant.

 

If you think any assault that results in a women becoming pregnant and having "children" like the broodmother does, isnt rape then there isn't any more room for discussion.

 

Again very mature, just because i disagree about the usage or meaning of a word i must be "stupid" (So much for polite conversation) and someone disagreeing with you must be "ignorant".

 

I think we're done here,seeing as you are hardly capable of civilized discussion.

[Osena109]

No, that's not racist, how is that in anyway racist ?

 

Just because you can romance a character of a certain race and you can't romance someone of another race does not mean that the devs did it because they don't want you to romance that character. They did it because they didn't think a romance arc would fit that character. Or perhaps she's already with someone. 

watch they want to charge extra for interracial   love its  gonna be a DLC

[EmperorKarino]

Exactly. The market decides who the primary audience is, and if white straight cis gamers are buying video games more than anyone else, then we'll probably see a lot of straight white male protagonists and things this gamer type likes. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't go to a fashion store and complain that the female section is 2-3 times larger than the male section and how that is sexist.

 

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[BadgerladDK]

Urgh, I should really just stay out of this thread, but I'll try to be good.

 

Sexism, religious oppression, racism... These are all bad things, no sane person would argue otherwise. They are, at their core, also excellent drivers of conflict for storytelling, *because* they are bad things. Stabbing the hell out of the rapey guy (sorry, name eludes me as it's been years) in the CE origin felt good, because he'd earned a stabbing because of his actions.

 

The problem arises if these things are portrayed as good, and I don't think BioWare can be rationally accused of condoning any of them simply by portraying a world in which they exist. It's not like they give you xp for smacking a chantry mother or raping the ale wench at the Hanged Man. I don't want to play the "realism" card in a fantasy setting, but from a narrative cohesion perspective, bad things happening to good people is an excellent point of conflict.

 

I'll say this, though: The happy, santized utopia hornyviviene seems to advicate is not a setting  I'd find interesting at all.

[tmp7704]

beside what you're claiming stands exactly opposite of what some study's have concluded.

http://www.dailymail...udy-claims.html

first google pop up i could find.

Check out the content of orange box accompanying the article, on that very page you link. Or i'll make it easier, it says:
 

In contradiction to the University of Buffalo's research, a recent study from Brock University in Ontario found that spending hours playing violent video games stunts teenagers' emotional growth.

It is thought that regular exposure to violence and lack of contact with the outside world makes it harder for them to tell right from wrong.

They also struggle to trust other people, and see the world from their perspective.

Researchers said those who spend more than three hours each day in front of the screen are particularly unlikely to have developed the ability to empathise.

[Chari]

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[EmperorKarino]

Oh "criticism", is that what's happening? Cause I could've sworn what I've actually been seeing are people harassing and shaming devs. You have the right to tell developers that you want less sexualization in their games. They have the right to ignore you or tell you to ****** off.

 

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[SofaJockey]

I get the feeling we are talking about 2 different things.

I don't care that Bio chooses to include sexist content, so long as they are aware that is what they are doing and it is a part of the story line.
I do care if sexism is used out of ignorance and or stupidity or as a result of bias against women.

 

This is my favourite quote from the thread so far, it sums it up well for me, but I do want to add a couple more themes.

 

It's ok to question sexism, (and other ism's and phobes for that matter) even if not every facet of the argument turns out to be sound, I would defend the validity of such discussions. That BioWare are way ahead of the game when it comes to inclusivity does not of itself act as a reason to deny a civil discussion of the matter, preferably with evidence not conjecture. Dismissing complainants as cranks (or worse as has happened in other recent controversies) does nothing to further the debate.

 

Equally, through discussion, showing some arguments to be flawed (and the quoted complaints include some corkers) is also fine.

 

In a few areas Dragon Age Origins (written 2005-2008) contains dialogue that to our ears in 2014 could have been written differently, but challenging stories if intelligently written continue to be valid and valuable to tell.

[Ceoldoren]

watch they want to charge extra for interracial   love its  gonna be a DLC

No...no it's not.

 

That's never going to happen, I don't think they're ever going to add an LI after the game is finished. There was Seb, but he was just pulled out of the main game at the end. 

[EmperorKarino]

Ah look another one of those Social Justice Warriors threads... lol

 

yep, and ran out of likes for today, so here is +1 like in message form.

[MissOuJ]

For ****'s sake.

 

I saw my father die before my eyes. Do you think Leadra's death was pleasing to me? It wasn't. It stirred very, very bad memories, and I felt like **** for days afterwards because of it. I hate hate playing that portion of the game to this day.

 

Does that mean I think Bioware shouldn't have included that scene? Of course not. It's their game, it has a big fat M18+ slapped on it, so you know what the hell you're going into. They shouldn't not portray war because war happens in the real world. They shouldn't not portray the Taint because people die of diseases in the real world. They shouldn't not portray religious fanatism because those wackos exist in the real world. And they sure as **** shouldn't censor their own game and not portray sexism and rape because it happens in the real world.

 

What they shouldn't do is condone any of that, and they don't. From there, Bioware can show whatever atrocity they damn well please in their game. 

 

First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine how traumatising that kind of experience must have been.

 

I am not, nor have I at any point, campaigned for censorship. At all. My post was directed at a person who told me that my real life fears about sexual assault are not valid because men get physically assaulted more often than men.

 

Neither am I saying that rape or issues of misogyny shouldn't be addressed in games in any way. I am just asking that it is done with dignity and the emotional weigh it deserves, not as a cheap shorthand for "things be ****-up in here".

 

Again, this is not a problem with is unique to video games - this is a larger social problem.

 

I also doubt (correct me if I am wrong in my assumption) that your feelings regarding your experience are not routinely trivialised or questioned when you bring them up. Whenever I talk about the sexual harrasment I've faced and the fear and anxiety it causes, I usually get at least a couple "I get you, but..." or "You should take it as a compliment."

 

Games cannot (and will never) be free of traumatic subject matters or triggers. I am not asking them to be. All I'm asking is that they be a little more careful about the way they handle them.

[veeia]

People in this thread sure do like their ridiculous strawmen.

Critiquing something is not holding a gun to someone's head and demanding they listen. Disliking something in a videogame doesn't mean you should immediately throw down the controller and find another piece of media. Speaking from your own perspective is not an agenda. Saying you're uncomfortable with something doesn't mean you're a weak baby who is asking for the world to cater to you. Talking about this doesn't mean you don't care about other problems in society.

Honestly, a lot of you are coming across as people who can't handle criticism of their favorite things or who don't care about the portrayal of rape in the game. Which is fine, just avoid the thread maybe? Idk.

[EmperorKarino]

Jesus Christ people go get a real problem. Go live in Liberia where people and villages are being wiped out by Ebola.

Oh I'm sorry let's hear about your first world video game problems instead. We need more gay and transsexual characters.

 

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[Mathias]

If you can't handle mature rated stories that deal with sexism then maybe games that deal with this kind of drama isn't for you.

[karushna5]

Feminists will never be satisfied. Thedas is a Matriarchy. The chantry is run by women. Scrawny looking women who care mostly about their hair can wield massive weapons and armor. Feminists will never be satisfied until anything masculine is completely and utterly castrated from gaming (a predominantly male space). Feminists care more about the character creator and hair styles than the actual game itself. Feminists are professional victims.

 

I would trade all of that. Thedas being a "Matriarchy". Women being able to be warriors (woah that was hard to type out), being ABLE to play a woman. Pretty LIs for the guys, no LIs for women. If people could just not be raped, and if women could be respected instead of sexualized. Meaning a girl can be a babe but please no one keep insulting her for it.

 

It is like the heiarchy of needs. Whan it comes to sexism the basics are ... Not be killed BECAUSE they are a woman (this has mostly been avoided by DA other than the momslayer) and not be raped. Everything else is like having a fullfilling job that makes you happy but for some reason you are starving to death. I feel like modern gaming gave us less casual sexism but more extreme sexism. So there you go.

 

Unlike many, I really hate the idea of just balancing it with more sexism on the other side. And many games have really been adding more and more complexity to women and I can understand the confusion when we are still unhappy. So yes. If the trade is basic safety for complex characters who are always in danger of being sexually brutalized, I would rather the former. I would rather lose everything women have gained in the media for being respected enough that they can avoid being killed because they are women and being raped.

[Sully13]

can i just get to play the game now?

[EmperorKarino]

I personally enjoy Bioware's inclusive games (obviously) and I think every developer should be able to develop the games they want to make. Putting political pressure on developers and forcing them to develop games based on feminist or other ideologies is only going to create terrible games. Nobody in the industry is trying to oppress women, and in genres women buy more than others they are well-represented. Take point-and-click adventures, for example. They probably feature more female than male protagonists.

 

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[HiroVoid]

ran out of likes for today, so here is +1 like in message form.

Err.....probably better to stop.  What you're doing now is basically spam.  If you want to tell someone you like their post, do so by describing and responding to it.

[EmperorKarino]

How about we don't change the terms of the debate and instead discuss the topic at hand. Given we're all sitting on a video game forum - in advance of the games release no less - I think we can safely assume we all have an interest in the topic of video games. Given we all voluntarily entered this thread we can assume we all want to read about and possibly comment on the topic. We'd more likely be on a news site if we wanted to discuss current world events, wouldn't we?

 

finally, someone who is calm and logical. ran out of likes for today so here is +1 like in message form.

[Beerfish]

It is pretty easy to pick and choose the importance of issues and whether they should or should not be in video games.  It is also easy to pick one issue that pertains to women only and attach the label sexism which in many cases has come to mean a bias against women.  It's also easy to put forth what issues are important and should or should not be shown in a video game.

 

Here's one for you, suicide, men are overwhelmingly more apt to commit suicide as compared to women statistically.  There are a whole ton of reasons why this may be the case but it is an issue that is almost never brought up in video games as is the issue of post traumatic stress disorder.

 

Game makers have to create a story world, decide how close or not it conforms to real world experience and in the end hope to entertain the people who play the games.

 

Issues of 'sexism' and the ills of the world is totally a two way street as far as the two sexes go.  To pretend otherwise is disingenuous and simply not fair to members of the opposite sex.