296 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Now that I think on it...
 
Wouldn't have it made more sense to have more sexism against men in Thedas? In Chantry-centric regions at least.
With a setting having a female Messiah figure, a female power oriented religion system and all-round  filled with female leaders, you'd think men would have the short end of the stick in this one.

Andraste may be a powerful messiah figure, but the Maker being a male and Andraste's husband likely more than evens that out, attitudes-wise.

[veeia]

IMO, because of Andraste's husband, its kind of weird that jealous men aren't villianized the way "immoral" women are in Christianity.

[GreenSoda]

These kind of threads are like a big vortex that sucks out the fun I still occasionally find on these forums here.

[veeia]

So don't read the thread? Its a good convo to have, as long as we can remain calm.

[Sully13]

Agreed i am out i had my say.

Don't drink the Coolaid do some reserch other than biased feminist stuff.  

Christina Hoff Summers is a start.

PEACE.

[Vandicus]

It gives us bad guys in the setting to kill as we murderhobo about.

 

If we start removing socially acceptable targets from video games, who will we have left to kill?

 

 

Unless I've missed something, its not like sexism(or slavery, or murder, or rape) is portrayed in a positive light in the game. Seems to be that these are always used as  means to give us people to dislike, sometimes dislike enough to justify killing them(ok, not just sometimes, most of the time).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Now that I think on it...


Wouldn't have it made more sense to have more sexism against men in Thedas? In Chantry-centric regions at least.
With a setting having a female Messiah figure, a female power oriented religion system and all-round filled with female leaders, you'd think men would have the short end of the stick in this one.
Women, biologically, are already more valuable than men seeing as how a man can reproduce with a lot of women at one time, women cannot and have the whole 9 month gestation period thing. a man by biological definition is the more expendable gender and that being the reason why men were sent into battle instead of the women. all for the population's survival.
Really, I'd think it would make more sense for a portion of Chantry women to see men as lesser beings.

It could work either way. By making the Chantry matriarchal, it could be used as a mechanism to marginalise women in secular areas.

[Battlebloodmage]

Since the topic seems to be pretty heavy, I will try to sum up some of my thoughts of the stuffs being discussed before it's being locked. Rape could be perceived as sexism but it could also be a form of power dominance like in a prison, males could get raped as well. It's fine to speak out against sexism, but there are a limited numbers of choices with each dialogue, and this game isn't about creating a feminist character. People shouldn't expect too much dialogue on it. As the game is a dark fantasy, I don't mind homophobia or sexism in the game. It makes the game more real. Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but chains and whips... but words will never hurt me. It's good to discuss about it, but accusing Bioware of being sexist is just seemed spoiled, considering how many other games use females as damsel in distress or sexual manners like a certain game where a naked woman being tortured but had smooth and perfect body with glittering skin.

[phantomrachie]

I get the feeling we are talking about 2 different things.

I don't care that Bio chooses to include sexist content, so long as they are aware that is what they are doing and it is a part of the story line.

I do care if sexism is used out of ignorance and or stupidity or as a result of bias against women.

 

Yeah, alot of it has to do with intent.

 

If the purpose of the sexist content is to highlight something or if its part of a culture like the Qun, then I'm fine with it, as long as I still get to play as a woman, who can respond to this content.

 

If it is there because the writers have either a known or unknown bias, then I do care about that.

[Tymvir]

IMO, because of Andraste's husband, its kind of weird that jealous men aren't villianized the way "immoral" women are in Christianity.

 

Well, Andraste cheated on her husband tbh. I think it's called hypergamy aka trading up.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Unless I've missed something, its not like sexism(or slavery, or murder, or rape) is portrayed in a positive light in the game. Seems to be that these are always used as means to give us people to dislike, sometimes dislike enough to justify killing them(ok, not just sometimes, most of the time).

Women consistently needing to be rescued by men would count.

And this becomes problematic if the PC can be male.

[Grieving Natashina]

Ok, just going to make one post with my view point. Men may not be sexualized in the media(movies, commercials , TV sitcoms ect) but, we are constantly portrayed as ignorant dumb fucks. One only has to watch an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond or some other sitcom wherein the wife is portrayed as some etheral wise woman and the man is some dumb **** lucky enough too of married her. This happens constantly on TV sitcoms, talk shows and other forms of media/entertainment. Now with that said sexism sucks and has no place in the modern world. But, both genders male and female seem too engage in it in one form or the other so, I don't see it ending anytime soon. PS. Please don't kill me BSN.

Well, this is the reason why threads like this get started.  Sexism does hurt everyone in the long run.  For what it's worth, I agree that the over-idealization of the "dumb straight guy," is a huge problem as well.  I know it hasn't been addressed much here, but your words weren't lost in a vacuum.  

[catabuca]

Ok, just going to make one post with my view point. Men may not be sexualized in the media(movies, commercials , TV sitcoms ect) but, we are constantly portrayed as ignorant dumb fucks. One only has to watch an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond or some other sitcom wherein the wife is portrayed as some etheral wise woman and the man is some dumb **** lucky enough too of married her. This happens constantly on TV sitcoms, talk shows and other forms of media/entertainment. Now with that said sexism sucks and has no place in the modern world. But, both genders male and female seem too engage in it in one form or the other so, I don't see it ending anytime soon. PS. Please don't kill me BSN.

 

You're right. Patriarchy hurts men and women. Which is why we should all oppose it.

[Gothfather]

Oh for frak sake I can't edit this fraking post except by eliminating most of what is said useless !@#$ piece of rubbish.

Modifié par Gothfather, 03 novembre 2014 - 07:24 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I never got this complaint: 

 

There are some things that are sexist to women in Dragon Age. 

There are some things that are sexist to men in Dragon Age. 

 

Yet only the first is complained about. 

[Lennard Testarossa]

Do you do it because you fear rape?

 

Also, do you still do it when there's absolutely no one within sight? Do you ever stop at the door to think "Damn, were are my keys?" only to realise a split-second later that they're already in your hand because you took them out of your bag when you were still in the bus, because this process has become automatic to you?

 

Because I do.

 

I don't see what your being really, really afraid all the time has to do with anything. A higher fear of being assaulted does not equal a higher chance of being assaulted. Speaking in terms of actual statistics, rates of assault overall tend to be higher for men than for women in western countries. You're not more likely than a man to be assaulted, you're just more afraid of it.

[Vandicus]

Women consistently needing to be rescued by men would count.

And this becomes problematic if the PC can be male.

Is this an actual consistent thing in DA?

 

My recollection seems to be that we end up rescuing more men than women in DA.

[volkoff]

I don’t believe Bio set out to install sexism into Dragon Age. Perhaps they even tried to tone down sexism in terms of what the writers would have been exposed to in their 1st world experience of it, both male and female. BUT, I don’t believe after thousands of years of treating woman as lesser creatures that we are capable of seeing clearly what a sexist free society looks like, let alone feels like.

 

 

i do hope they set out to install sexism in thedas. i think in a world where violence is quite regular sexism and other bad acts should be quite regular aswell. that's how it has been in our past and present. and i think that is how it should be in a game. it would be amazing to see sexism towards the character i make. a women not selling her buns to me because i'm a male! (pun intended) or a male saying that they're doomed because my female inquisitor is... female... and then i proceed to wtfpwn them.

i think we are capable of seeing what a sexist free society looks like. it's accepting that men and women at their core are different. no more feminism or male-ism(?) just equalism. equal rights(not opportunity's). not lowering firemen exam requirements because you're women. not lowering requirements for men in certain area's because male's are underrepresented in that field. (nursing for example) you simply want the best people for the job. due to physiology men and women got an advantege over eachother depending on the field. (since both estrogen and testosterone have different effects on the human body. for example, estrogen has been linked with increased density of the hippocampus)

 

 

For our current evolution and dealing with sexism, Bios bigger failing is in equity of dialogue, for example, the female conversations do not include comments like. “Left to your own devices you would step on your dick.” Or, ”Clearly your intellect come from your balls.” Probably because we don’t talk about men that way and probably because historically it could have had rather sever consequences to do so. The rule of thumb is not something I have ever experienced physically but have been hit with all my life; I’m 31.

 

 

as you said, it's because women dont respond in that way. reason why people generally like a story is because it's relatable. they simply use inspiration from the real world. and thus use language regularely used in the real world. rarely have i seen women use male body parts to say someone is stupid or anything like you described.
 

sadly there are vast amounts of places where they have not even gotten to the rule of thumb, instead beating, stoning and setting on fire are still the legal ways to deal with the issue of female equality. These are front page news items regularly and all the support words to describe the events are used regularly, they are part of our ethos rather we like it or not.

Being aware of it is not enough. Until men in general are willing to grant equity there will be the imbalance, and women will continue to demand it. Not because of 1st world laws that make it so, while 3rd world countries continue to abuse human beings because of their gender. It will only change when there is no longer a law needed to make it equitable and until then there will be gaps in our ability to write a dialogue that is not sexist in some way.

 

small point; people like power, women whom have power dislike to give up that power aswell. it's not a men thing, it's an human thing.

and you do realise that the whole abusing human beings because of gender in the 3rd world is generally because of religious reasons? (sure, might've been a men whom wrote that a couple of thousands of years ago.) but the reason why female equality has seen a rise in the 1st world is because people became less and less (extremely) religious.

[MissOuJ]

Ok, just going to make one post with my view point. Men may not be sexualized in the media(movies, commercials , TV sitcoms ect) but, we are constantly portrayed as ignorant dumb fucks. One only has to watch an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond or some other sitcom wherein the wife is portrayed as some etheral wise woman and the man is some dumb **** lucky enough too of married her. This happens constantly on TV sitcoms, talk shows and other forms of media/entertainment. Now with that said sexism sucks and has no place in the modern world. But, both genders male and female seem too engage in it in one form or the other so, I don't see it ending anytime soon. PS. Please don't kill me BSN.

 

The problem, is, however, that there's not a stereotype of men as "dumb f***s". Men don't get paid less because of this, aren't questioned because of their gender when they decide to pursue a career in science or politics. And I'd actually argue that these sitcoms are more classist than anyting, because usually the guy is your general ignorant blue-collar worker.

 

(And let's not forget that these men also have ridiculously hot wifes despite their lack of intellect or other attractive qualities in general.)

 

Also, the list of non-idiotic male leads is a much, much longer than a list of non-sexualised female characters. I mean, let's think about the most popular TV shows from the last 10 years: we have everything from Breaking Bad and GOT to House and Mad Men and 24 and CSI. Lots and lots and lots of smart, cabable men in those shows.

 

I agree that we should just produce good entertainment without being huge jerks towards one group or another - but the scales are far from balanced here.

[Sully13]

I never got this complaint: 

 

There are some things that are sexist to women in Dragon Age. 

There are some things that are sexist to men in Dragon Age. 

 

Yet only the first is complained about. 

its the same in the real world.

[Grieving Natashina]

I never got this complaint: 

 

There are some things that are sexist to women in Dragon Age. 

There are some things that are sexist to men in Dragon Age. 

 

Yet only the first is complained about. 

I think it's because, in this case, we're talking about rape being used for the story.  The male PC has never been given the impression of having that happen as a danger.  While any savvy player knows that the female PC isn't going to be raped, this is used as a threat twice.  Once most notoriously during the CE origin, and once in the Deep Roads when you find out where baby Darkspawn come from.

 

You know me; I'm not going to pretend that sexism towards men is non-existent in Thedas.  However, the threat of rape towards a male isn't used in storytelling.  I think the issue comes from the idea that rape was used as a dramatic thread for the female PC.

[veeia]

Well, Andraste cheated on her husband tbh. I think it's called hypergamy aka trading up.

But no one in lore sees it that way. They describe Andraste's relationship with the Maker as pure and his jealousy was bad.

It's very interesting because Andraste is allowed to have this spiritual love with the maker and also her domestic life...until her husband mucks it up.