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[QueenofPixals]

 

This is not a petty grievance. 

I'm pretty sure that any "grievance"  that comes from a video game is by definition 'petty'. 

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'm pretty sure that any "grievance"  that comes from a video game is by definition 'petty'. 

 

When it comes to something that runs at least $60 USD, had a major effect on the previous games and has been kept hidden from the fans, I'm not entirely sure.

 

If Bioware were as open about mechanics as they were romance, we'd be just fine. Literally the only dialogue we've had with the developers was through Patrick Weekes on the healing switch to barriers/damage mitigation.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Paul E Dangerously:  It's a luxury item... not a necessity.  
 

Any grievance about a video game is absolutely a 1st World Problem.

[Arvaarad]

That's only true for situations where your prebuilt tactics wouldn't take you through, isn't it? The point of tactics is to move more fights into the category of fights that don't need to really be analyzed.

We're not comparing "tactics scripts" to "companions do nothing", we're comparing "tactics scripts" to "companions have some kind of AI that can be influenced but not directly controlled".

I would argue that there are very few fights where custom tactics scripts make a huge difference over the default scripts. For small skirmishes, the defaults were fine. For more pitched battle, as you noted, even the custom scripts failed.

The only custom behaviors that really mattered were things like potion-taking and focus firing. And that kind of high level AI management is still present. We can still make companions focus fire. We can still decide how often they take potions - in fact, we can make their behavior change based on how many we have left.

[Sylentmana]

I don't know about you all, but I plan on avoiding tactical mode completely and putting the game on easy-mode and mashing the attack button with an ability here or there, just like God intended.

[Wulfsten]

We're not comparing "tactics scripts" to "companions do nothing", we're comparing "tactics scripts" to "companions have some kind of AI that can be influenced but not directly controlled".

I would argue that there are very few fights where custom tactics scripts make a huge difference over the default scripts. For small skirmishes, the defaults were fine. For more pitched battle, as you noted, even the custom scripts failed.

The only custom behaviors that really mattered were things like potion-taking and focus firing. And that kind of high level AI management is still present. We can still make companions focus fire. We can still decide how often they take potions - in fact, we can make their behavior change based on how many we have left.

I’ll just pitch in here that my current Hard run on DA2 makes extensive use of tactics beyond the defaults. For example, setting up specific cross-class combos requires manual tactics, and this can easily turn a pitched battle into a mere skirmish.

 

Currently, I’ve got Isabela who uses a flask on a cluster of 4+ enemies to stun and DISORIENT them, then Aveline rushes in and uses Scatter to crack the DISORIENT and do massive damage. Combined with the fact that my Force Mage uses Pull of the Abyss to drag mobs together, the setup can almost instantly kill 4-10 mobsters, leaving behind the elite enemies to whittle down.

 

That wouldn’t be possible in the defaults, and I doubt that level of detail will be possible in DA:I’s AI. I strongly expect that the AI might be quite complex in terms of individual reactivity, but very poor in terms of broader combat awareness.

 

By this I mean that I fully expect that an NPC mage’s default AI will know to use AoE at clustered enemies, debuffs against high-rank enemies, and buffs on a tank that’s surrounded.

 

I don’t expect that an NPC mage will know that I’ve got an ice weapon equipped, and that we’re fighting a high dragon so he needs to make sure I’m buffed and protected as I’m the main damage dealer against this enemy. Nor do I expect an NPC mage to know that my character has a powerful close-range ability that I want to use, so I don’t want him scattering tightly packed mobs with his fire/fear causing spell.

 

All that said, I’m still cautiously optimistic that they’ll get it right. To be honest, I think Bioware has knocked it out of the park with every single one of its combat systems. I loved both ME and DA’s combat systems, and each new game objectively improved the combat, in my opinion. So I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am worried by this. 

[Zakhar]

Was this a concern? I'm losing track of all the things I'm apparently supposed to be angry over.

[xkg]

I don't know about you all, but I plan on avoiding tactical mode completely and putting the game on easy-mode and mashing the attack button with an ability here or there, just like God intended.

 

I kinda gave up on mechanics part of the game, so more and more it looks like I am going to do the same. Dynasty Warriors with deep story, yeah I can handle that. I like Dynasty Warriors, maybe this kind of gameplay style will work here, somehow. We'll see.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sylentmana:  Praise to the Maker for button mashing!

You console peasant... 

[Sylentmana]

@Sylentmana:  Praise to the Maker for button mashing!

You console peasant...

What can I say? I guess I'm just not cultured enough to handle the glory that is PC.

[Arvaarad]

I’ll just pitch in here that my current Hard run on DA2 makes extensive use of tactics beyond the defaults. For example, setting up specific cross-class combos requires manual tactics, and this can easily turn a pitched battle into a mere skirmish.

Currently, I’ve got Isabela who uses a flask on a cluster of 4+ enemies to stun and DISORIENT them, then Aveline rushes in and uses Scatter to crack the DISORIENT and do massive damage. Combined with the fact that my Force Mage uses Pull of the Abyss to drag mobs together, the setup can almost instantly kill 4-10 mobsters, leaving behind the elite enemies to whittle down.

That wouldn’t be possible in the defaults, and I doubt that level of detail will be possible in DA:I’s AI. I strongly expect that the AI might be quite complex in terms of individual reactivity, but very poor in terms of broader combat awareness.

By this I mean that I fully expect that an NPC mage’s default AI will know to use AoE at clustered enemies, debuffs against high-rank enemies, and buffs on a tank that’s surrounded.

I don’t expect that an NPC mage will know that I’ve got an ice weapon equipped, and that we’re fighting a high dragon so he needs to make sure I’m buffed and protected as I’m the main damage dealer against this enemy. Nor do I expect an NPC mage to know that my character has a powerful close-range ability that I want to use, so I don’t want him scattering tightly packed mobs with his fire/fear causing spell.

All that said, I’m still cautiously optimistic that they’ll get it right. To be honest, I think Bioware has knocked it out of the park with every single one of its combat systems. I loved both ME and DA’s combat systems, and each new game objectively improved the combat, in my opinion. So I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am worried by this.

Cross-class combos boiled down to "that guy has status effect X, I should use ability Y or Z for extra damage", which is something the AI can probably handle. Might even be able to be more fuzzy about it - when following a predetermined script, a minor cross-class combo could accidentally "win" over a better one, just by virtue of ordering.

So optimism is probably well-founded.

[AresKeith]

God people are so over dramatic.

It's almost like a defense mechanism now

[ncRidesh]

Guys, I was watching the Gametrailers preview and noticed that in the Tactics tab, below it says 'Tactics Setting', so maybe there will be some choices to customize when the characters should use the abilities and all that.

[Tielis]

I don't know about you all, but I plan on avoiding tactical mode completely and putting the game on easy-mode and mashing the attack button with an ability here or there, just like God intended.

 

Yes, it seems that this is what this game was made for.

[AresKeith]

Yes, it seems that this is what this game was made for.

 

 

[KoorahUK]

Guys, I was watching the Gametrailers preview and noticed that in the Tactics tab, below it says 'Tactics Setting', so maybe there will be some choices to customize when the characters should use the abilities and all that.

 

Aha! You are right. Fingers crossed folks, fingers crossed.

[pdusen]

Am I the only one who found tactics incredibly lackluster and finnicky to begin with?

 

I mean... basically, if I want a companion to do a specific thing, I just tell them to do it. If I don't care much what a particular companion is doing right this moment, the defaults have always been adequate.

[Chari]

Back then making Sten automatically cover my Warden or Shale make a mini-earthquake whenever she was surrounded by enemies was so damn fun...

[Ferretinabun]

I'm pretty sure that any "grievance"  that comes from a video game is by definition 'petty'. 

You know, when you put it like that...

 

... have my like.

[Giubba]

Bummer, guess there wasn't enough time or the priority wasn't high enough for replicate the same mechanism with the frostbite.

 

Oh well.

[Gnoster]

Has anyone else noticed how at the top of the behaviours tab quoted page one of the thread there is a tickbox at the top labelled enable ai tactics which is currently selected.

Perhaps with this selected you get the basic behaviours seen in case you find tactics tedious but if it is unselected the behaviours turn into a proper tactics menu as if ai tactics are disabled surely this only leaves manual tactics? In mayb however just be being hopeful.

 

This would be great of course, but honestly I think it is more likely unchecking the box disables all tactics.

[J-Reyno]

I'll be glad when telling everyone how "too cool to care" you are stops being cool.

[Tielis]

I'll be glad when telling everyone how "too cool to care" you are stops being cool.

 

It usually does when one leaves adolescence.  Unfortunately not always.

[Chrom72]

@Paul E Dangerously:  It's a luxury item... not a necessity.  
 

Any grievance about a video game is absolutely a 1st World Problem.

You're on a forum for said video game. Obviously all complaints are assumed to not be life-altering matters. People don't come on a Dragon Age forum to talk about ending world hunger and poverty. It's a legitimate complaint in the context of the game.

[Heimdall]

I've never messed with tactics in a Dragon Age game.

 

Though in all honesty, I've never played RPGs for their combat.  I'm mostly interested in defining my character through story decisions and dialogue (And, ideally, a character creator).  Even in JRPGs, I'm usually much more interested in the story than combat builds.