@Chrom72: That's nice.
Saying you don't like something is one thing...
Saying "our fears confirmed" as if we've just realized ebola is sentient and capable of spreading through texts... is quite another.
Nobody even has the game yet - and people ignore any evidence to the contrary - like the "Tactics Setting" option outlined above.
And yet - melodrama ensues.
When it comes to something that runs at least $60 USD, had a major effect on the previous games and has been kept hidden from the fans, I'm not entirely sure.
If Bioware were as open about mechanics as they were romance, we'd be just fine. Literally the only dialogue we've had with the developers was through Patrick Weekes on the healing switch to barriers/damage mitigation.
Which is basically the only thing that really could have used an extensive dialogue, as far as mechanics are concerned?
Seriously, the healing switch is THE major change to game mechanics. the one which substantially alters how battles are approached in DAI, compared to other games. It is THE change that will mess you up if you approach combat in DAI like you did in DAO or DA2, as it requires a paradigm shift from reactive to proactive tactics (you functionally apply your "healing" BEFORE the damage happens, instead of after).
All other changes are evolutionary in nature, not revolutionary. The fact we get less abilities on our toolbar, or can't pause and switch equipment, don't get detailed tactics, and so on will not fundamentally trip us up as we start playing the game. Not like the healing switch, where we'd quickly run out of potions if we approached combat while ignoring barrier or guard and just focused on smashing faces.
Mind you, I regret losing the detailed tactics scripting of previous DA games, they appealed greatly to the coder in me, but I'm sure I'll be fine with what DAI has. My main worry is how effective the AI is at using "reaction" abilities like shield blocking, but some video I've seen has laid some of my concerns to rest (saw an AI controlled Cassandra hold up her shield just in time to deflect a mage's bolt).
@Chrom72: That's nice.
Saying you don't like something is one thing...
Saying "our fears confirmed" as if we've just realized ebola is sentient and capable of spreading through texts... is quite another.
Nobody even has the game yet - and people ignore any evidence to the contrary - like the "Tactics Setting" option outlined above.
And yet - melodrama ensues.
You can turn off their ability to use the buff and tell them to use it when you want it in this system. What's the problem?Yea, who cares if the tactics are so bad the AI cast buffs and protections way too early and they run out before combat starts. Just deal with it. What a bunch of drama queens.
@Brogan: Do we have evidence of this?
Cause actually I've found the AI to be quite timely with their casting in the playthroughs I've seen.
You can turn off their ability to use the buff and tell them to use it when you want it in this system. What's the problem?
Because in the old system you could tell them when to use it in their tactics and it would do what you wanted the rest of the game automatically, instead of telling them every single fight in a 150 hour open world RPG.
Sorry to self-quote guys I know its rude, but ncRidesh caught this button on the Tactics screen which seems to imply a deeper level of control - have we dismissed this claim?Aha! You are right. Fingers crossed folks, fingers crossed.
Thank you OP for point out a phobia I never knew I had, It's much appreciated.
@Chrom72: That's nice.
Saying you don't like something is one thing...
Saying "our fears confirmed" as if we've just realized ebola is sentient and capable of spreading through texts... is quite another.
Nobody even has the game yet - and people ignore any evidence to the contrary - like the "Tactics Setting" option outlined above.
And yet - melodrama ensues.
Is it a little over dramatic? Possibly, but for some people (not me, but as made evident by this thread more than just one or two) the detailed tactics were their favorite part of the gameplay. I would agree that the Tactics Setting option could very well be the answer to this debate, but it's a little strange that no Bioware employee has commented saying that just yet. Now it's very likely they're rather busy right now with the game having just gone gold and release just around the corner, but it's uncharacteristic of them to be this late in stomping out concerns like this.
Sorry to self-quote guys I know its rude, but ncRidesh caught this button on the Tactics screen which seems to imply a deeper level of control - have we dismissed this claim?
The question I would then have is where is the button that cycles between checkmark, star, and X? It has to be the Tactics Setting button, since nothing else is listed that would accomplish that task.
Because in the old system you could tell them when to use it in their tactics and it would do what you wanted the rest of the game automatically, instead of telling them every single fight in a 150 hour open world RPG.
Assuming you treat every fight the same way, sure. Personally I never found tactics very useful. In most fights the defaults work just fine. In difficult ones you usually have to micromanage anyway. I just don't think its much of a loss.
And from what I see, its not out of the question that you will be able to do that in this system.
TL:DR, but god dammit BW or EA or whoever decided to make that decision.
Assuming you treat every fight the same way, sure. Personally I never found tactics very useful. In most fights the defaults work just fine. In difficult ones you usually have to micromanage anyway. I just don't think its much of a loss.
That'll depend on how intelligent the native AI is for your companions, since they will presumably be now handling things like closing cross-class combos by themselves. As I said earlier, if the AI now handles any no-brainers for which I previously would have needed to establish tactics, then this will result in no big difference since you will likely be pausing often in the higher difficulties for important fights.
The advantage of the previous system is that I didn't need to rely on hoping companions would do what I wanted: I could tell them in detail. I could also chain complex actions simply by ordering their priority correctly. So for example Merrill would use Blood Magic, then use Chain Lightning for any cross-class combos, use her vampiric ability when enemies were nearby, and if her health got below 10% she's deactivate Blood Magic, use a potion to her her health up, wait until she had enough magic to recast her sustains, then use Blood magic again. This is a precise level of control I have over my companions actions without me needing to pause and tell her what to do.
The need for if-thens has been somewhat mitigated by the lack of sustained abilities in Inquisition, and in fact it may turn out that I don't feel the need for precise AI control at all. Still, it's introducing an unknown into the equation for what was previously a resoundingly positive known, so I feel some concern is justified.
Assuming you treat every fight the same way, sure. Personally I never found tactics very useful. In most fights the defaults work just fine. In difficult ones you usually have to micromanage anyway. I just don't think its much of a loss.
And from what I see, its not out of the question that you will be able to do that in this system.
Let's take Barrier as an example. We've established that the AI is too stupid to use it effectively (it casts it as the start of combat, not when characters start to take damage, so that's a total waste - see the video on the previous page). So if we want Barrier to be cast when characters start to take damage, we're going to have to cast it manually. At the start of every fight. Which in a 150 hour game, I imagine there to be quite a few of. Whereas, with tactics, we could set that ourselves to be done automatically. That's a big convenience removed for this game.
Sorry to self-quote guys I know its rude, but ncRidesh caught this button on the Tactics screen which seems to imply a deeper level of control - have we dismissed this claim?
It isnt rude if people completely ignore it or it has not been addressed.
The question I would then have is where is the button that cycles between checkmark, star, and X? It has to be the Tactics Setting button, since nothing else is listed that would accomplish that task.
Indeed. There's no other input I can see to change that setting.
That being said, I'm going to keep an open mind on this. If we no longer can adjust specific "If X then Y" conditions, then I hope the AI is up to the task. I'm hoping the party AI has little to no restrictions on things like timing (for blocks, combos, potions, etc.) or AOE spell accuracy.
As for that situation with the Barrier being cast early, I'll just say that my issue with Barrier is that it's lost over time, rather than lost purely through ablation.
@Brogan: Do we have evidence of this?
Cause actually I've found the AI to be quite timely with their casting in the playthroughs I've seen.
We do. See Barrier being cast in the following video at 4.50. The AI seems to be set to cast it at the start of a fight, not when characters actually begin to take damage. This is the result:
https://www.youtube....h?v=PYeoOXUf7bE
Is it a little over dramatic? Possibly, but for some people (not me, but as made evident by this thread more than just one or two) the detailed tactics were their favorite part of the gameplay. I would agree that the Tactics Setting option could very well be the answer to this debate, but it's a little strange that no Bioware employee has commented saying that just yet. Now it's very likely they're rather busy right now with the game having just gone gold and release just around the corner, but it's uncharacteristic of them to be this late in stomping out concerns like this.
I loved the tactics, I can't see how the game will be remotely manageable in a real time sense without proper tactics unless we're supposed to rely simply on AI but that would remove another great part of the previous games, and they may as well just fully go to an ME design. The silence from BW on this matter is damning.
If this is engine drive I'd almost rather they stayed with the previous engine, as primitive as it now is.
We do. See Barrier being cast in the following video at 4.50. The AI seems to be set to cast it at the start of a fight, not when characters actually begin to take damage. This is the result:
On the other hand, it seems cooldowns are much shorter in this game to balance the 8 ability limit. Blowing a Barrier at the start like that isn't probably going to affect the outcome of the fight unless it's a very difficult fight, in which case you'll be commanding your party manually.
I loved the tactics, I can't see how the game will be remotely manageable in a real time sense without proper tactics unless we're supposed to rely simply on AI but that would remove another great part of the previous games. The silence from BW on this matter is damning.
They have said from the beginning the higher difficulties will require at least some tactical camera use. They never said you'd be able to action your way through everything.
They also have better things to do right now, most likely including vacation time.
@Ferretinabun: And that would likely be the default.
@Morroian: So you're saying that you're damning them to hell because they won't capitulate to your demands and explain something 13 days before release?
Its like they are assuming the people who are playing the game are idiots.
They also have better things to do right now, most likely including vacation time.
Yes because a short post would take so much time............
On the other hand, it seems cooldowns are much shorter in this game to balance the 8 ability limit. Blowing a Barrier at the start like that isn't probably going to affect the outcome of the fight unless it's a very difficult fight, in which case you'll be commanding your party manually.
I hope so. But even so, we are being hampered by the AI.
@Ferretinabun: And that would likely be the default.
It isn't. See the above video.
Let's take Barrier as an example. We've established that the AI is too stupid to use it effectively (it casts it as the start of combat, not when characters start to take damage, so that's a total waste - see the video on the previous page). So if we want Barrier to be cast when characters start to take damage, we're going to have to cast it manually. At the start of every fight. Which in a 150 hour game, I imagine there to be quite a few of. Whereas, with tactics, we could set that ourselves to be done automatically. That's a big convenience removed for this game.
Well, I'd have to take another look at the tactics screen to rule out the ability to delay casting things like that, but I personally pause in most combats anyway, so I really don't think there's much convenience lost.
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