760 réponses à ce sujet

[Aigni]

I can't understand why they had to destroy the "Holy Trinity": tank, healer, damage dealer. That's how good game design worked and still works. Potion drinking is a feature that came from asia grinders.

[NRieh]

 

You mean playing the game yourself is a chore?

That's exactly what people who used to use custom tactics did. They played the game themselves, the way they like it.  Those who loved to micromanage could just turn the AI off. Those who preferred less direct control and logic could've expressed their desires and preferences with a macro. 

 

Now? Those who love to micromanage are still going to micromanage, those who preferred scripting are screwed, 

 

Also, I'm not sure it had been told before, but many tend to forget that custom tactics had not only been about tactics. It was a powerful RP tool. Onу could make it so, that Alistair had a priority to taunt away form his love. Or Anders could freeze anything that gets near Hawke. Or not controlled Warden\Hawke assisting someone (s)he cares for most. Or Isabella was fighting mostly for herself. Anything, really. 

[Subtle54]

Well we are continually hearing Bioware espousing the greatness of the Frostbite engine and that it can't be modded.

So let's pray to whichever God's we believe in, that the programmers at Bioware are smart enough to hardcode into NPC AI "if x is frozen then MightyBlow or Rockfist or.....elseif x is sleeping then nightmare etc etc etc". If they're haven't, it's sure going to be more than 200 hours gameplay on higher difficulties, each fight will be "tactics execute pause" repeated ad infinitum, not exactly awe inspiring.

[Ferretinabun]

Sadly, yes. At this point the best we can hope for here is that the AI is generally quite sensible. It's still a huge problem that they're not customisable, but if the AI is dumb too, then that'll just make micromanaging the whole party constantly essential.

[Rylor Tormtor]

So, we now have confirmation. 

 

I was I could say I was surprised. In addition, no dev came into the thread to tell us before a review revealed a change in what more than a few people (could it have been a minority? Maybe) saw as more than a minor aspect of the series (I mean, if something made it through the triage from DAO to DA2, you would expect it to have some sticking power). 

[Wulfsten]

This is bizarre and dispiriting news. Most people liked the tactics system from DA:O and DA2. It was the only thing that people actually agreed on. This is literally just going to make the game less interactive. It's genuinely bizarre that they would remove the option.

 

I'm still going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they've designed the combat to be tactical and intellectually engaging in a new or different way, but I am very worried that this was a misstep. 

 

I would strongly advise Bioware to start thinking about how  to patch in at least a basic tactics system in the coming months. 

[Morroian]

Sadly, yes. At this point the best we can hope for here is that the AI is generally quite sensible. It's still a huge problem that they're not customisable, but if the AI is dumb too, then that'll just make micromanaging the whole party constantly essential.

 

The AI is irrelevant. This is about more and more control being removed from the player and a relatively unique part of the gameplay being removed.

[DLaren]

This isn't your fathers Dragon Age game -- this is your new, "hip" Dragon Age  game that wants to be Skyrim with a touch of Dragon's Dogma sprinkled around the edges.

 

I love Skyrim and greatly enjoyed Dragon's Dogma...but Dragon Age was and still is my preferred fantasy RPG -- and the Tactics menu was one of the main reasons I kept coming back.

 

Instead of Bioware conforming to the standards set by other developers, I wish they would have continued to expand on the Tactics system to the point that other developers felt inadequate if their game didn't have one -- Bioware, this was your opportunity to lead, and you chose to follow.

[xkg]

Oh wow. Just saw the news.
Dynsty Warriors is how this game is supposed to be played now, then.

In Action mode camera, no FF, easy dificulty, with no pause. Good luck guys, trying to do the gymnastics trying to play it in any other way.

[KoorahUK]

This is the only real gameplay design change I'm unhappy about.

 

Healing and combat changes I love to pieces

No Auto Attack? No probs for me.

Attribute point allocation - *shrug*. Can still get it from gear which works for me.

No tactics... No not happy at all.

 

I used to micromanage a lot so i can live with it, but sometimes I just wanted to concentrate on my Warden or my Hawke, and feel like the party was behaving like a well oiled machine. The difference between default tactics and custom tactics was night and day to me. When I actually got all my ccc's co-ordinated, or 'oh ****' conditions working as intended, battles often became a thing of beauty.

Main thing is it allowed me to micromanage most of the time but main one character when I desired, which ironically I probably want to do more of in this game becasue of the more hands on combat style. 

I'm sure they had their reasons but I'm very disappointed by what I've seen. Here's hoping I won't find it as bad as I fear I will.  

[Morroian]

From the eurogamer review: " There were many exciting battles on the main story, but none I could say were tactically very interesting, and none of them against one of the oddly unimaginative damage-sponge bosses, with Rift clean-up detail especially wearing out its welcome. Like the equally boring Oblivion gates, every one is basically the same - deal with a couple of demon waves, don't stand on exploding ground, close rift. Yawn. At least there are meatier bonus challenges elsewhere, not least taking on the huge dragons around the world."

 

So one must ask exactly why were so many changes made to ability trees and combat if the combat is still not going to be all that great. Its similar to some of teh DA2 problems, needless changes which don;t actually improve anything. 

[TKavatar]

So why is this thread in the feedback section now? A lot of other threads that do belong here are still in Scuttlebutt.

[SofaJockey]

So why is this thread in the feedback section now? A lot of other threads that do belong here are still in Scuttlebutt.

 

Because these are suggestions for Dragon Age 4 ... ?

 

Though I think this ship has sailed.

I'd be surprised if anything is changed, the tactics were shown in a review today and the looked fine to me.

(before the dragon fight https://www.youtube....h?v=mfgY9By_zt4 )

[aeoncs]

I really don't want to go through 25 pages, so: have we actually seen/heard/read anything about how extensive the different behavior options are?

[Gnoster]

So one must ask exactly why were so many changes made to ability trees and combat if the combat is still not going to be all that great. Its similar to some of teh DA2 problems, needless changes which don;t actually improve anything. 

 

Wasn't there something about combat coming from the multiplayer and being formed around that first and the implemented into single player afterwards? I am guessing that gave a great many input for the abilities, balance, and combat in generel (not that it has anything to do with the sad loss of advanced tactics, sad day indeed)

[tmp7704]

This isn't your fathers Dragon Age game -- this is your new, "hip" Dragon Age  game that wants to be Skyrim with a touch of Dragon's Dogma sprinkled around the edges.

Skyrim companions are notoriously dumb, granted, but that's part of the game which DAI reeeally didn't need to copy ;/

(yeah yeah snark, but... welp)

[SofaJockey]

I really don't want to go through 25 pages, so: have we actually seen/heard/read anything about how extensive the different behavior options are?

 

I will read back through the 25 pages momentarily, I'm talking about the Tactics screen.

I may agree with you in a moment I'll be back shortly.

 

But in the meantime it look to me like I can specify exactly which abilities my parties will, will not and will prefer to use:

 

 

I guess I'm asking (and it may be answered in the 25 pages I'm about to read)

 

what is it that the old version did that this does not?

[TKavatar]

I will read back through the 25 pages momentarily, I'm talking about the Tactics screen.

I may agree with you in a moment I'll be back shortly.

 

But in the meantime it look to me like I can specify exactly which abilities my parties will, will not and will prefer to use:

 

snip

 

I guess I'm asking (and it may be answered in the 25 pages I'm about to read)

 

what is it that the old version did that this does not?

 

Spoiler

 

All that fine control is just gone.

[aeoncs]

Do you have some actual proof of that? The tactics look completely fine to me and I haven't seen a single screenshot/video so far that showed the behavior options, at least not in detail.

[NRieh]

 

what is it that the old version did that this does not?

It does not allow to specify the situations. One can only turn the abilities on\off and and pick some 'favourite' ones.

 

In DAO I used to script my DDs (rogues mostly) to take out the mages asap. Burst DD skills and some buffs were for bosses and elites, not for routine fights etc.

 

Probably, new tactics does work better than it looks, but it looks so very sub-par compared to the DAO. They had improved it in DA2 (more conditions and possible triggers etc), but now they just take it all away. 

[TKavatar]

Do you have some actual proof of that? The tactics look completely fine to me and I haven't seen a single screenshot/video so far that showed the behavior options, at least not in detail.

 

Watch the video on the first page (skip to 10:20).

[aeoncs]

I did. Again, what's the big deal? All I see is a Level 3 Solas with 4 different behavioral options. You do realize that you only had 5 options at level 3 in DA2 as well, right?

[TKavatar]

I did. Again, what's the big deal? All I see is a Level 3 Solas with 4 different behavioral options. You do realize that you only had 5 options at level 3 in DA2 as well, right?

 

Because that's all the options we're going to get. 

[aeoncs]

Because that's all the options we're going to get. 

 

And this is a fact? Or just an assumption? I haven't read any of the reviews and don't plan to. That's why I'm asking.

[TKavatar]

And this is a fact? Or just an assumption? I haven't read any of the reviews and don't plan to. That's why I'm asking.

 

Fact. Go watch some other gameplay videos, they have the same behaviour options even at level 12.

 

And this is what PC Gamer has to say on the tactics and behaviour options.

 

 

Control over the party’s tactics has been simplified. In previous games, orders resembled absurd algebra puzzles. If Morrigan drops below 25% health, should she turn into a swarm of insects? Sure, but only if she stops being insects at lesser than or equal to 50% mana. In Inquisition, you have some agency over when healing items are consumed, but skills can only be enabled, disabled or marked as preferential—giving them priority over other skills.

 

I miss the fine-tuning the old system enabled. Controlling Inquisition’s party requires either accepting the inefficiencies of the AI, or spending a lot of time micro-managing.