760 réponses à ce sujet

[TKavatar]

8? Both SP and MP?

 

Yep. 

 

It's also possible that the tactics system was dumbed down because of this.

[Morroian]

MP is actually only 4 abilities not including potions.

[Augustus Tirion]

Yep. 

 

It's also possible that the tactics system was dumbed down because of this.

I don't see how the multi-player mode would effect advanced tactics.

MP doesn't have companions, it's all player action. There's no companion 'AI' involved at all, so there'd be no advantage to intelligent players for setting up better if>then strings.

[TKavatar]

I don't see how the multi-player mode would effect advanced tactics.

MP doesn't have companions, it's all player action. There's no companion 'AI' involved at all, so there'd be no advantage to intelligent players for setting up better if>then strings.

 

I was talking about the 8 ability limitation. It's possible they may have decided that there was no point in creating an in-depth tactics system for just 8 abilities at a time.

[Genesiis]

I think I'm at a point of cancelling my pre-order. I never liked micromanaging AI's, the battle begins pause-play-pause-play, just the thought of doing that for hours makes me cringe. I will admit I spent hours on setting up advance tactics but the result were so much more satisfying then the pause-play micromanaging. If I were in charge at BW I would not have cut a major part of how players played my game, for example the tactical cam would have been the best I could have made it as well as advanced tactics system. Yeap so close to setting an industry standard yet so far away that seam to be BW model. I feel bad because I convinced a friend to get this game though the selling point of advanced tactics, but now I have to tell him its not there and I know he hates the pause-play thing as he puts it.

[Annihilator27]

Do you get more options as you level?

[TKavatar]

Do you get more options as you level?

 

No. You only have 4 behaviour options and that's it.

[Xerxes52]

EDIT: Massively Ninja'd.

[Cartho]

Copy pasted from a post I made on Eurogamer, echoing disappointment with the new tactics system:

 

I really enjoyed the trial. Played as a sword and shield tank warrior on hard difficulty. 

Combat felt chaotic at first but once I got used to actually using the tactical screen and properly controlling my party members it got better. I think Hard feels like the difficulty to go for if you want something abit challenging that will make you utilise all the systems properly.

Story is good, customisation etc seems excellent as well. Overall I can see it consuming countless hours of my life, just like Origins and DA2 did (notched over 120 hours into both).

One thing that REALLY disappoints me though:
The AI NPC tactics system. It's been utterly gimped. In DA2 it was totally sublime. You could give your party members incredibly advanced instructions and they would function very well as autonomous characters.

For example I had Anders set to start fights in damage mode, and he had a seriously powerful chain lightning spell. However it got even more powerful if he cast it on a target that was staggered (or dazed, cant remember). I didn't want him wasting that damage so I told him to only cast it on a target that had the status effect needed to trigger it.

However Chain lightning jumped to other targets so I didn't want him just frying some pathetic minion and not catching anyone else in the blast, so I set him to only cast it on a staggered target that was grouped up with at least 3 other enemies.

Despite this, sometimes you want that massive damage to hit one big powerful enemy, so I added another condition which over rode the first ones, so that if the enemy was an elite rank or higher and staggered, Anders would cast chain lightning on him anyway, even if he wasn't grouped up with other enemies.

This kind of highly advanced system allowed you to effectively just control your character, even on high difficulty settings, because your party functioned like an autonomous, well drilled MMO party. It took quite alot of skill to learn the system as it was relatively complex and had some weird little glitches etc, however overall the system was utterly brilliant.

DA:I's system is MUCH worse. You can tell them to cast / not cast / prioritise certain abilities. You can tell them at what point to chug a health potion on their own. You can tell them when to not chug a potion depending on how many you have. You can give them broad 'follow / defend a certain party member / the party member currently being controlled' type instruction.

That's about it. There is nothing like the same degree of depth found in Origins or DA2 and I think that's a real shame. I would love Bioware to patch this functionality back in. If they are worried about it being too complex they could always add it as a menu option - "enable advanced tactics, warning, for experienced users only". The choice would have been nice however, as you are going to have to micro manage your party a hell of alot now. I don't mind that, but the tactics system in previous games meant that, if you understood it (and it wasn't easy to get a REALLY good set of tactics working for all situations), you could forgo some micromanagement.

[Gnoster]

Copy pasted from a post I made on Eurogamer, echoing disappointment with the new tactics system:

 

Very well put together. I hope they listen to us and patch it in very quickly.

 

Since you obviously have experiemented with it, can I ask you a question: how do you find the AI pathfinding to be? I have seen some videos with drgaon battles, where the AI quite often oblivious wonders into fire on the ground and just stands there dying while shooting at the dragon. This has me quite worried AI controlled companions will become potion sponges.

[Travie]

Hope springs eternal. 

[Cartho]

Very well put together. I hope they listen to us and patch it in very quickly.

 

Since you obviously have experiemented with it, can I ask you a question: how do you find the AI pathfinding to be? I have seen some videos with drgaon battles, where the AI quite often oblivious wonders into fire on the ground and just stands there dying while shooting at the dragon. This has me quite worried AI controlled companions will become potion sponges.

 

AI pathfinding when you give them "move here" orders seems pretty diabolical. I like how, in tactical cam mode, you can just put the cursor anywhere and press X and give them an order to go there, nice feature and saves having to switch to that character and manually move them yourself.

 

However in all the times I tried it never really seemed to work. Tried telling varric to run to high ground as he has an ability which he can unlock that gives him a damage buff from high ground, but he ran off on the most stupid route to get there. It was pretty much a dead straight line without much in the way yet he proceeded to run off in some bizarre direction. When I checked the path he was planning on taking to get to where I asked it involved him running off round the side of a large hill.

 

It has me worried in some ways re dragon fights but, to be honest, AI pathfinding has always been awful in DA games, with most boss fights requiring you to manually move them all to stop them standing in bad stuff. God the ancient rock wrath boss in Dragon Age 2, who had those death beam area of effect things. Anders was the most suicidally moronic ass I've ever seen. So it's not like its a backwards step in that regard

[Gnoster]

Thank you for the input. Maybe I'm just spoiled from Divinity: Original Sin. A small indie developer in Larian Studios, who have developed amazing AI pathfinding where they never step in bad stuff and if they do, you know it was you who set them on that path manually 

[Ferretinabun]

Don't get me wrong - I would LOVE Bioware to patch in a tactics system.

 

But to be honest, how likely do we really think this is? Really, I'm genuinely curious. Would it be pointless to hold out hope? It seems a pretty radical change to make after release...

[Gnoster]

But to be honest, how likely do we really think this is?

 

Extremely unlikely unfortunately as they must have made the choice that the amazing old deeper system wasn't worth the effort. But we can all hope and continue to push for the function (or at least better AI for companions). Honestly though I think the best we can hope is that they understand their mistake come design decision for Dragon Age 4.

[Lucirak]

AI pathfinding when you give them "move here" orders seems pretty diabolical. I like how, in tactical cam mode, you can just put the cursor anywhere and press X and give them an order to go there, nice feature and saves having to switch to that character and manually move them yourself.

 

However in all the times I tried it never really seemed to work. Tried telling varric to run to high ground as he has an ability which he can unlock that gives him a damage buff from high ground, but he ran off on the most stupid route to get there. It was pretty much a dead straight line without much in the way yet he proceeded to run off in some bizarre direction. When I checked the path he was planning on taking to get to where I asked it involved him running off round the side of a large hill.

 

It has me worried in some ways re dragon fights but, to be honest, AI pathfinding has always been awful in DA games, with most boss fights requiring you to manually move them all to stop them standing in bad stuff. God the ancient rock wrath boss in Dragon Age 2, who had those death beam area of effect things. Anders was the most suicidally moronic ass I've ever seen. So it's not like its a backwards step in that regard

what hurts me is the AI of range chars..they don't move away when enemy is near and sometimes they run into melee distance to attack a enemy,,i saw it a lot of times in livestreams/videos

[hwlrmnky]

I find myself mildly bummed out that the "if-then" system seems to be gone. I didn't use it a lot but it was a cool option.

[LexXxich]

Ranged characters closing in to attack could be because certain rogue talents work with any weapon, but their range is only melee regardless of if bow or dagger is equipped. At least Shadow Strike, I think, does it. Knockout Powder might too. And since without If->Then tactics you can't tell character to only use those abilities on enemies in melee already, only way to prevent that is to disable their automatic use.

[cotheer]

No wonder i couldn't find any videos detailing tactics system of the game -.-

[Han Master]

This keeps getting from bad to worst.

[GabranthSG]

Where are the guys who were saying that the AI in this game would be intelligent enough for us not to need a tactics menu now?

 

The AI in this game is incredibly dumb.

[Brogan]

Yea, lot of ITYS's to hand out in here...

[NRieh]

 

The AI in this game is incredibly dumb.

sad and true. I have no idea what those 3 chars are doing unless I control them directly. Which is tiresome, really.

As if getting used to the new attack system was not a trouble enough itself.

[pablosplinter]

So I get to choose whether my party use abilities or not... I wouldn't have unlocked them if I didn't want them to use them!