760 réponses à ce sujet

[Scoutyo]

When have you never had to? Don't lie

 

I always avoid using tactics on Nightmare (so every game ever). I would only use them for sustained abilities, intelligent potion use, and random single target abilities usage.

 

AOE spells (including every warrior attack ever and most upgraded spells) were a nightmare (get it?) to avoid getting hit by without having to manually use while moving your characters. 

 

Now you can control when to use potions, when to stop using abilities, and when to use abilities... using a simplified interface that did the exact same thing you did before.

 

So frankly this new system changes nothing for me, and it shouldn't for most Hard/Nightmare players.

 

The tactics system was always excessive anyway. If you want to play real-time while your allies do their work automatically then push it down to Normal or Casual. It's nonsensical for that mode to be "nightmarish" anyway.

 

I made heavy use of tactics and played almost exclusively on Nightmare (the only exception was my first playthrough of DA:O, which was on hard).  Nightmare never required a lot of micromanaging for me in DA:O.  In DA 2, I had to switch party members a bit more often because of the positioning requirements in certain fights, but I still had a party that generally functioned well without my direct input.  I won't argue that tactics were just as efficient as micromanaging, but they were usually sufficient to get the job done on Nighmare.  Edit:  To clarify, I'm talking about the vanilla games, without resorting to cheating or the op item packs.      

[Sylvius the Mad]

I agree that the "if" statements could come in handy, like casting barrier if someone's health dropped below a certain threshold.

However, the previous tactics system was an artifact of a different gameplay system. DAI has overhauled combat and we don't know how it's going to be.
Perhaps the usage of tactics was found ultimately unnecessary in this iteration. While it sucks for those who genuinely enjoyed it, I'm certain something else will make up for it.

That's a good point. I used them mostly to disable specific abilities (something Inquisition lets me do) and to manage sustained abilities (something Inquisition doesn't have).

So it will probably work okay for me. But removing a powerful tool like that just seems wrong-headed. They should be giving us more powerful tools, not taking them away. I even asked for an API so we could code our own auto-pause conditions. That's the level of tool I would enjoy.

[Lebanese Dude]

This is by far the least sense-making change they've done for this game. I mean, I get the 8 abilities only, I even somehow get no auto-attack in "action mode" but this? I really don't see any reason to do this.

 

If you don't like tinkering with tactics, go play on casual. It's awesome when your party works like a well oiled machine while you are controlling only your own character for most of the time.

 

What if the AI is completely incompetent or doesn't work at all like you'd want to? THAT's gamebreaking right there...

 

When your party works like a well-oiled machine, then the game difficulty is essentially reduced. This is made obvious by the fact that you said you want to control your own character.

 

You might as well just play Casual, since that is exactly what you do on that difficulty.

The entire point of playing on Hard or Nightmare is to have a challenge. Setting up efficient tactics, while hardly wrong, is simply overcoming the challenge via artificial means.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The entire point of playing on Hard or Nightmare is to have a challenge.

That's where you're wrong.

Setting up efficient tactics, while hardly wrong, is simply overcoming the challenge via artificial means.

That's where you're wrong again.

[ZerioctheTank]

I'll hold my judgement til I have the game in my hands. In DA2 I honestly just copied someone elses tactics from the forums here. After spendings an hour trying to tweek things & still feeling like they weren't right I just wanted to play. Eventually I figured it out so I don't have too mich trouble setting things up on my own. Micromanaging on the other hand I do have some issues with. Doing it occasionally is fine but pausing the game every few seconds & switching characters all the time ruins immersion for me.

I'll adapt if I have to micromanage since it isn't the worst thing in the world. As long as MP is balanced I can have my tank role 100% of the time there.

[Lebanese Dude]

I made heavy use of tactics and played almost exclusively on Nightmare (the only exception was my first playthrough of DA:O, which was on hard).  Nightmare never required a lot of micromanaging for me in DA:O.  In DA 2, I had to switch party members a bit more often because of the positioning requirements in certain fights, but I still had a party that generally functioned well without my direct input.  I won't argue that tactics were just as efficient as micromanaging, but they were usually sufficient to get the job done on Nighmare.      

 

Well yeah ... micromanagement does not imply controlling every battle meticulously, especially not trash mobs. It just means that harder fights with elites or lieutenants will require some pause/play ability management, especially with friendly fire.

 

Selecting your mage to cast fireball in DA2 to knock an assassin out of stealth is micromanagement. That's what I was saying.

 

In DAI, you can still have your party do what they always did, except you have to cast fireball to knock the assassin out of stealth.

 

Nothing changes.

[Lebanese Dude]

That's where you're wrong.
That's where you're wrong again.

 

No I'm not.

 

Nightmare means: give me a challenge.

It doesn't mean: allow me to write one efficient algorithm to blitzkrieg the entire game.

 

Just play casual if you only like controlling your character.

[Kleon]

No I'm not.

 

Nightmare means: give me a challenge.

It doesn't mean: allow me to write one efficient algorithm to blitzkrieg the entire game.

 

Because figuring out tactics that would make companions more efficient is game-breaking? Seriously? It's part of the fun.

[Aurok]

The gambit system was the best thing about the gameplay, especially in DA2.

 

Setting up efficient tactics was the gameplay at higher difficulties. There's nothing challenging about having to keep pausing every second to make sure your teammates aren't screwing everything up, it's just busy work.

[Lebanese Dude]

Because figuring out tactics that would make companions more efficient is game-breaking? Seriously? It's part of the fun.

 

It's a tool, one that has been discarded in favor of a different one that fits the current gameplay system.

It was fun for me too and I enjoyed crafting tactics, but to say that the absence of it will make a significant difference is absurd.

 

Read my above posts for a more detailed explanation.

[tmp7704]

When your party works like a well-oiled machine, then the game difficulty is essentially reduced. This is made obvious by the fact that you said you want to control your own character.

You might as well just play Casual, since that is exactly what you do on that difficulty.

The entire point of playing on Hard or Nightmare is to have a challenge. Setting up efficient tactics, while hardly wrong, is simply overcoming the challenge via artificial means.

Setting up efficient tactics is merely an aspect of the player's skill. Going with this train of logic we could as well say if the player is good at micromanaging then they may as well play on Casual, because after all that makes the game easier too, than when the player is clueless.

And "artificial means" is rather silly here, as it's very much trying to draw line in the sand between individual game mechanics. Going this route, is the ability to pause the game to issue orders also artificial, and one shouldn't use it because it reduces the challenge?

[Sylvius the Mad]

No I'm not.

Nightmare means: give me a challenge.
It doesn't mean: allow me to write one efficient algorithm to blitzkrieg the entire game.

Just play casual if you only like controlling your character.

I play on Hard because I find it to be the level that best supports roleplaying. The mechanics are generally fairer on Hard. So I don't play it for a challenge. There are reasons beyond challenge that influence choice of difficulty setting. That's where you were wrong first.

Writing a detailed set of Tactics isn't necessarily easy. There can be challenge arising from writing the algorithm. That's where you were wrong second.

Alternatively, you need to define your terms better.

[10K]

No I'm not.

 

Nightmare means: give me a challenge.

It doesn't mean: allow me to write one efficient algorithm to blitzkrieg the entire game.

 

Just play casual if you only like controlling your character.

So your saying people whom utilized the tactic menus, just blitzrieg the entire game? I thought the tactics menu was just another why to implement player tactics for their party. I didn't realize there was a right way to play the game on nightmare.

[Neon Rising Winter]

No I'm not.

 

Nightmare means: give me a challenge.

It doesn't mean: allow me to write one efficient algorithm to blitzkrieg the entire game.

 

Just play casual if you only like controlling your character.

Algorithm design? Casual? Pah, more like all those nasty controllers have drained the brainpower of their users rendering them unable of the logical thought required to use this option.

 

(Warning, this post may contain sarcasm. Please consult a doctor if taken seriously.)

[Kleon]

It's a tool, one that has been discarded in favor of a different one that fits the current gameplay system.

It was fun for me too and I enjoyed crafting tactics, but to say that the absence of it will make a significant difference is absurd.

 

Read my above posts for a more detailed explanation.

 

In favor of what? They just removed, limited and dumbed down things. 

 

You want to tell me that companion tactics are not core to gameplay in a game where you spend majority of your time fighting with 3 companions?

[Ashelsu]

And here I thought how annoying it will be to adjust tactics every time I change abilities' panel. Turns out there is nothing to change because there is no tactics! Jolly. So DA:I now became more tactical. Only without tactics. And please, somebody here believes in smart AI?

This for me is the worst news so far.

[Scoutyo]

The gambit system was the best thing about the gameplay, especially in DA2.

 

Setting up efficient tactics was the gameplay at higher difficulties. There's nothing challenging about having to keep pausing every second to make sure your teammates aren't screwing everything up, it's just busy work.

 

Agreed.  Or at least it was a viable way to play the game at the highest difficulties.  There wasn't anything cheesy or artificial about using tactics wisely. And tactics certainly didn't obviate the need to manage your party carefully in some of the tougher fights (at least in DA 2).    

[Lebanese Dude]

In favor of what? They just removed, limited and dumbed down things. 

 

You want to tell me that companion tactics are not core to gameplay in a game where you spend majority of your time fighting with 3 companions?

 

You love using the word "Dumbed down" a lot do you?

 

This is a different game with different parameters. Some aspects of the game have been simplified in favor of expanding others. If the game was complex everywhere, it could seriously reduce the "fun" factor which is the entire point of playing a game.

 

Less abilities and tactics are a result of a new combat system that you have not even played yet. Judging these characteristics solely on previews is premature.

 

Nothing has been "dumbed down".

[Fidite Nemini]

It depends what you're trying to do.

Even when I am trying to win, I'm not always just trying to win. Sometimes I want to achieve some specific in-combat result.

That Tactics system in DA2 was like a mini-game, and it was a mini-game I really enjoyed, and it was really well received. Why would they throw it away like that?

 

I think the magical word would be "aweso-" err, no, wrong marketing division: "streamlining".

 

Same as the no auto-attack in non-tac-cam. There must be someone at the head of the approvement pyramid that is wholly convinced that "more button presses per minute" equals "better game". He probably sits right next to the guy whose agenda is "why make everything so complicated, one button can do everything".

[Kleon]

You love using the word "Dumbed down" a lot do you?

 

This is a different game with different parameters. Some aspects of the game have been simplified in favor of expanding others. If the game was complex everywhere, it could seriously reduce the "fun" factor which is the entire point of playing a game.

 

Less abilities and tactics are a result of a new combat system that you have not even played yet. Judging these characteristics solely on previews is premature.

 

Nothing has been "dumbed down".

 

There is less of everything across all gameplay features in favor of what? 

 

"Optional" crafting?

 

Skyhold rugs and curtains? 

[Lebanese Dude]

I play on Hard because I find it to be the level that best supports roleplaying. The mechanics are generally fairer on Hard. So I don't play it for a challenge. There are reasons beyond challenge that influence choice of difficulty setting. That's where you were wrong first.

Writing a detailed set of Tactics isn't necessarily easy. There can be challenge arising from writing the algorithm. That's where you were wrong second.

Alternatively, you need to define your terms better.

 

Roleplaying is completely irrelevant to combat. There is nothing to discuss here. 

 

Writing tactics is a different "challenge" that superficially reduces actual gameplay challenge.

[Star fury]

It's a tool, one that has been discarded in favor of a different one that fits the current gameplay system.

It was fun for me too and I enjoyed crafting tactics, but to say that the absence of it will make a significant difference is absurd.

 

That means less choice and it happens again and again. Limited abilities, no attribute allocation, limited tactics.

[CoffeeElemental]

Funny thing is the devs were afraid to show this and and dismissed the question when asked on stream.

 

I think without this you will need too much manual micromanagement on higher difficulties for generic random encounters which can get boring quite fast.

[Star fury]

You love using the word "Dumbed down" a lot do you?

 

This is a different game with different parameters. Some aspects of the game have been simplified in favor of expanding others. If the game was complex everywhere, it could seriously reduce the "fun" factor which is the entire point of playing a game.

 

Less abilities and tactics are a result of a new combat system that you have not even played yet. Judging these characteristics solely on previews is premature.

 

Nothing has been "dumbed down".

 

LMAO, what exactly was expanded in DAI?

[Lebanese Dude]

That means less choice and it happens again and again. Limited abilities, no attribute allocation, limited tactics.

 

Meanwhile you have more choice in character roleplaying, abilities, inquisition leveling, unique quest approaches and storyline branching, expanded crafting, and much much more!

 

Cry all you want. DAI is a much bigger game than any of its predecessors.