760 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrom72]

They finally did it, they broke me. I don’t want to play this game anymore. They strip feature after feature and every time I said ” Well that sucks but I'm sure I will still love the game”

 

But no, I cant say that this time. Creating advanced tactics for the AI on nightmare was always my number one favorite thing to do in DAO and DA2.

 

They gone fuckt it up. What the hell where they thinking? Changing to much from earlier games in the series will only alienate your fans. They talked so much about customization and tactical play, it was all a lie...

 

I feel so crushed right now.

See it's people like you I really feel bad for. No healing specialization sucks but there are still ways to heal and the rest of support has just been expanded. The lack of dual-wielding warrior sucked for me and many others but it's not like there aren't other fun options. Tactics though were potentially a major part of the game and the favorite part of the games for some people. To relegate it to potion and mana/stamina management just flat-out sucks. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

You can roleplay by deciding what abilities you use and how you use them in a fight. You can roleplay as a crazy melee staff-mage in DA2 or play a non-lethal mage with no damage abilities.

All of this is artificially changing combat to suit your own needs. This makes any discussion of balance or challenge moot as you are imposing additional limitations to yourself that do not exist in the game.

I played a DA2 game where my mage only cast support abilities and ran around with healing aura. It was fun certainly in its own way, but it made the game artificially harder in many others. I can't blame BioWare for the added difficulty.

So basically any self-imposed limitations are your responsibility. BioWare does not balance combat by catering to potential roleplaying by the player.

Is anyone doing that?

This isn't about difficulty. This is about losing gameplay options.

[Meltemph]

I don't. I don't want a more intelligent AI. I want to program the AI myself.

This probably sums up the disagreement then. I was never invested in the tactics system, and prefer intelligent AI, since what I wanted the AI to do was just not be stupid in combat, if I didnt want to micromanage. I understand people liked the system, but if they give me something more along the lines of my taste I'd obviously be more happy with that. Although, truth be told, I already knew why you would have issues with it, your reasoning makes more sense then the challenge aspect, I can at least understand your reasoning even if I'm not as much of a fan of that gameplay mechanic.

[Sylvius the Mad]

This is the first time ever that I'm in danger of running out of likes.


Here's one guy who understands how I felt spending hours in the menu screen in DA:O/DAII to tinker with tactics!

Everything we do in the game is gameplay. Dialogue is gameplay. Selecting abilities is gameplay. Inventory management is gameplay. And programming tactics is gameplay.

They've removed a gameplay element.

[Sylvius the Mad]

This probably sums up the disagreement then. I was never invested in the tactics system, and prefer intelligent AI, since what I wanted the AI to do was just not be stupid in combat, if I didnt want to micromanage. I understand people liked the system, but if they give me something more along the lines of my taste I'd obviously be more happy with that. Although, truth be told, I already knew why you would have issues with it, your reasoning makes more sense, then the challenge aspect, I can at least understand your reasoning even if I'm not as much of a fan of that gameplay mechanic.

Sometimes I do want the AI to be stupid in combat, just to see what happens.

[Fidite Nemini]

Everything we do in the game is gameplay. Dialogue is gameplay. Selecting abilities is gameplay. Inventory management is gameplay. And programming tactics is gameplay.

They've removed a gameplay element.

 

Same thing I said earlier. Meticulous tactics planning isn't mutually exclusive with micromanaging during combat in realtime. People can always choose to do that.

 

Not having the choice however = bad.

[Lebanese Dude]

Sometimes I do want the AI to be stupid in combat, just to see what happens.

 

The most annoying thing in the game is AI running into melee and getting destroyed. Tallis is the biggest culprit with her Drop Dead. I ended up making her a support ranged attacker in the end. Way easier to manage on Nightmare.

[Lebanese Dude]

Everything we do in the game is gameplay. Dialogue is gameplay. Selecting abilities is gameplay. Inventory management is gameplay. And programming tactics is gameplay.

They've removed a gameplay element.

 

True... but they expanded others. 

[Lebanese Dude]

It's challenging inasmuch as knowing what abilities to use in what conditions to defeat what enemy is a challenge, and understanding which of those conditions you can account for with the tactics system (which DA2 actually expanded compared to DAO), and doing so in an efficient way which also reflects the unique character build (or possible RP considerations) you've made for them. If you really don't find it a challenge, then neither should you find micromanaging your party and defeating them without automated tactics to be a challenge.

Which is fine, if you wanna just say games are easy in general or whatever. But as a gamey level of challenge, setting tactics is as valid as manual control-- it just shifts the challenge to the planning stage.

 

in DAI, the planning is still done before initiating combat. The combat itself is more reactive.

[Meltemph]

Same thing I said earlier. Meticulous tactics planning isn't mutually exclusive with micromanaging during combat in realtime. People can always choose to do that.

 

Not having the choice however = bad.

That largely depends on the person though. To you it's bad, but to me it means some other aspect of the game got the focus and for someone like me who didnt care about the tactics system it's something I'm fine with(unless the AI is stupid, then I'll be VERY annoyed). The meticulousness of the tactics system isnt something I'd consider anything mind bending(unless you purposely gave them inefficient setups I guess). Being meticulous with the tactics system was always a "duh" kind of thing for me, always having me wonder why I had to always customize the tactics for stuff that seemed to obvious, to me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

True... but they expanded others.

They did. Adding exploration is a huge win.

I'm not going to give them credit for companion equipment, though, because we could do that in DA2 with mods. And them switching to a less moddable engine is my biggest complaint so far (because it makes every other design choice final).

[Muspade]

I've reserved myself not to moan about anything as we'll see very soon how "terrible" these decisions are.

Moaning about it has become a fairly redundant past time. 

P.S I wouldn't trust any of the previous games AI to NOT DIE without my help on the harder difficulties. Too stupid.

[Fidite Nemini]

That largely depends on the person though.

 

It doesn't really. Removing gameplay options is objectively removing gameplay options, period.

 

Whether any individual particularily cares about any given gameplay option is an entirely different matter. The fact is, if you have a tactics system, you make both groups happy, the planners and the micromanagers. Removing the system, you end up with one unhappy group and one for whom superficially nothing changed. Just as you'd make the other group unhappy if you were no longer able to manually order characters around in realtime.

[Star fury]

This probably sums up the disagreement then. I was never invested in the tactics system, and prefer intelligent AI, since what I wanted the AI to do was just not be stupid in combat, if I didnt want to micromanage. I understand people liked the system, but if they give me something more along the lines of my taste I'd obviously be more happy with that. Although, truth be told, I already knew why you would have issues with it, your reasoning makes more sense then the challenge aspect, I can at least understand your reasoning even if I'm not as much of a fan of that gameplay mechanic.

Good AI and tactics are not mutually exclusive.

[Meltemph]

It's challenging inasmuch as knowing what abilities to use in what conditions to defeat what enemy is a challenge, and understanding which of those conditions you can account for with the tactics system (which DA2 actually expanded compared to DAO), and doing so in an efficient way which also reflects the unique character build (or possible RP considerations) you've made for them. If you really don't find it a challenge, then neither should you find micromanaging your party and defeating them without automated tactics to be a challenge.

Which is fine, if you wanna just say games are easy in general or whatever. But as a gamey level of challenge, setting tactics is as valid as manual control-- it just shifts the challenge to the planning stage.

Well the battles themselves were challenging(on nightmare at least) but the actual setting up of the tactics system, I never found challenging. Also, I doubt our only options is manual control or our companions act like idiots(at least I hope not). I'm not saying they were not valid, I was saying I didnt care for them, because the challenge in setting them up good tactics was very simple. I understand the desire to keep them in for RP or person taste preferences, I just didnt see where the challenge was, at least in terms of anything that required much thought, anyways. 

 

So I guess that was my point really, if challenge was the reasoning behind the tactics for you, I dont understand the loss. Sylvius' reasoning just made a lot more sense to me, then the challenge aspect.

[Jenaimarre]

Don't the XBox One owners get timed access on the 13th? We could wait for honest reviews then. Perhaps BSNers who play on the XBox could give us a clearer understanding of how the tactics work now.

 

I mean, no sense losing faith now, at least wait until we know for sure that the game has been gimped or improved.

[Meltemph]

It doesn't really. Removing gameplay options is objectively removing gameplay options, period.

 

Whether any individual particularily cares about any given gameplay option is an entirely different matter. The fact is, if you have a tactics system, you make both groups happy, the planners and the micromanagers. Removing the system, you end up with one unhappy group and one for whom superficially nothing changed. Just as you'd make the other group unhappy if you were no longer able to manually order characters around in realtime.

Well ya, that was what I was saying the MERITS of the gambit/tacitic system is what I disagree with. I didnt find them to be satisfying like some of you do, to the point where them not diverting resources to it vs other things is a-ok to me.

 

 

Good AI and tactics are not mutually exclusive.

I agree, but we are talking about the tactics system(gameplay mechanics) not actual tactics(which is still possible in the game) and the merits of that system.

[Lebanese Dude]

They did. Adding exploration is a huge win.
I'm not going to give them credit for companion equipment, though, because we could do that in DA2 with mods. And them switching to a less moddable engine is my biggest complaint so far (because it makes every other design choice final).

Yeah mods are a great way to alter the game to suit your gaming needs so Frostbite is going to make this suck a little.

Still I imagine they will do what they can to deal with any major complaints.

[LexXxich]

You didn't like setting tactics, or didn't want setting tactics, or just went without them, micromanaging everything there was to manage. And it's OK. What's not OK is to proclaim that since you play that way, everyone should. That they are having fun wrong way.

[Tielis]

They finally did it, they broke me. I don’t want to play this game anymore. They strip feature after feature and every time I said ” Well that sucks but I'm sure I will still love the game”

 

But no, I cant say that this time. Creating advanced tactics for the AI on nightmare was always my number one favorite thing to do in DAO and DA2.

 

They gone fuckt it up. What the hell where they thinking? Changing to much from earlier games in the series will only alienate your fans. They talked so much about customization and tactical play, it was all a lie...

 

I feel so crushed right now.

 

I feel the same way.  My only hope is that the AI is smart enough to take over the tactics efficiently like others have said.

[Kleon]

 Just as you'd make the other group unhappy if you were no longer able to manually order characters around in realtime.

 

Soon...

 

Actually in next DA game.

[xkg]

Well ya, that was what I was saying the MERITS of the gambit/tacitic system is what I disagree with. I didnt find them to be satisfying like some of you do, to the point where them not diverting resources to it vs other things is a-ok to me.

 

They already had it. In cases of algorithms and source code when you heave something already figured out, moving it to a new system and simply translating/rewriting it, is not a rocket science.

It wouldn't take them thousands of dollars.