***All fights were completed on "Nightmare" difficulty.
****All Fights I tried to use Shapeshifitng as much as I could. Either having 1 or more companions use Shapeshifting or as the PC Mage stay in Shapeshifting for an entire battle.
General Fights using Various Forms
www.wegame.com/watch/shapeshifting-attack-1/
www.wegame.com/watch/shapeshifting-attack-03/
www.wegame.com/watch/attack-without-swarm-01/
www.wegame.com/watch/mixed-enemies/
Swarm Tactics
www.wegame.com/watch/swarm-01/
www.wegame.com/watch/swarm-02/
www.wegame.com/watch/swarm-03-deepstalkers/
www.wegame.com/watch/swarm-vs-mage/
Ogre Alpha Battle
www.wegame.com/watch/ogre-alpha-battle-vs-shapeshifters/
Spider Queen Battle
www.wegame.com/watch/shapeshifting-vs-spider-queen/
Broodmother Battle
www.wegame.com/watch/shapeshifting-defeats-broodmother/
Flemeth (2nd Vid is a more solo Bear fight with Wynne healing me, 3rd is the same but with Spider Form)
www.wegame.com/watch/bear-vs-flemeth/
www.wegame.com/watch/flemeth-bear/
www.wegame.com/watch/flemeth-spider/
Loghain
www.wegame.com/watch/loghain-vs-shapeshifing/
Boss Ogre in The Fade (Just wanted to show a combo using the shapeshifting there)
www.wegame.com/watch/fade-shapeshifting-ogre/
Sloth Demon
www.wegame.com/watch/sloth-demon/
Circle Tower Final Battle
www.wegame.com/watch/final-circle-tower-battle-bear/
Revenant Fights
www.wegame.com/watch/revenant-vs-bear/
Revenant w/Skeletons
www.wegame.com/watch/revenant-skeletons-vs-bear/
Mad Hermit
www.wegame.com/watch/mad-hermit-vs-bear/
Blood Mage Leader (Abandoned Building)
www.wegame.com/watch/blood-mage-leader/
- Shapeshifter Build -
*I'm focusing on strengthening the Shapeshifter form as the Primary ability. This will give you a weaker Mage to start, but by the time you reach lvl 12 you should be a strong Shapeshifter.
Intial Build:
1. Gender - Human (Extra Strength/Dex Points instead of Willpower & Magic)
2. Skill - Coercion helps you sneak the staff out, Combat Training is always good
3. Attributes - All 5 Points into Strength
4. Spells - 1 CC Spell (Glyph of Paralysis is Excellent Choice), 1 Offesive Spell (Winter's Breath or Lightning)
*Spells can be whichever you prefer. Out of the Spells in Tier 1, I find the ones I recommended some of the better Spells. For a CC Spell Glyph of Paralysis can't be beat and Winter's Breath or Lightning ia a cheap and very effective spell. Personally I prefer Winter's Breath becasue it has the ability to Freeze.
Gear:
- To start, anything that boosts Spellpower.
- The circle tower has fairly good gear. I would use the Acolyte Staff gaining +2 Spellpower unless you can sneak out the staff you find when helping Jowan
- To sneak the staff out I had a lvl 2 Coercion and was able to do it. So if you want that staff go for coercion right away.
- Any gear that boosts Nature Dmg is helpful too.
Slow Steady Build (50/50 Caster/SS):
Leveling Up:
[/b]
1. Attribute Selection: 2 Strength, 1 Magic every level. This should give you 38 Strength & 27 Magic by lvl 12.
2. Attribute selection: (Following 2 Levels)
- I would focus getting Stength to 42. So on lvl 13 put all 3 points into Strength giving you 41 and then
on lvl 14 split 1 Strength and 2 Magic.
3. Attribute selection: (Following 6 Levels)
- All points into Magic. This should give you a total of 47 Magic and 42 Strength points by lvl 20.
Strong Shapeshifter (Shapeshifting Primary/Casting Secondary):
Leveling Up:
1. Attribute Selection: You are gonna alternate. lvl 2: 2 Strength - 1 Magic, lvl 3: 3 Strength From there keep alternating that pattern until level 14. That should yield 43 Strength and 23 Magic by lvl 14. This is base without including the Fade Bonuses
2. Attribute selection: Following levels I would get magic to 35 max then pump strength.
- This will give you a high dmg shapeshifter. You could also focus on getting the spellscore to 50 and stopping.
- This can be done with the proper gear boosts and still have a lower magic score so you can get that high dmg quicker.
Strong Caster (Casting Primary/Shapeshifting Secondary):
Leveling Up:
*** Elf Race may be prefered for this build so you get extra magic and willpower.
1. Attribute Selection: 1 Strength, 2 Magic every level until 14.
2. Attribute Selection: Following levels I would still recommend some strength. Basically get teh Magic/Spellscore you want first, then I'd dump all extra points into strength.
* I'm setting an average of lvl 20. You can pretty much make lvl 20 no matter what route you take.
** This does not add in bonuses from The Fade or Gear so adjust point distribution as needed if you want.
*** I view the Fade as the cherry on top. I keep to my leveling schedule no matter what.
Spell Unlocks:
lvl 7 - Spider
lvl 8 - Bear
lvl 10 - Swarm
lvl 12 - Master Shapeshifter
- Spider, Bear, and Swarm are effective prior to Master Shapeshifter, but once you get that unlocked it really makes it much more effective.
Spell Tips:
- You want spells that interact or complement Shapeshifting.
- CC Spells work very good. Not only do they help the team as a whole, but they give you time to shapechange.
- You do want some Offensive Spells, but primarily when I play as a Shapeshifter I am focused on utilizing Shapeshifting first.
- Earthquake is a good spell to combo with shapeshifting and has little to no effect when in spider, bear, or swarm.
- I mainly focused on Spells that had fast casting so I could switch into Shapeshifting quicker.
- Personal Buffs will not carry over so avoid getting those, but they can be casted by another mage and benefit the shapeshifter.
- Pick spells that are good agaisnt Undead, Skeleton, or any high nature resistant creatures. Shapeshifting forms seems to be weaker against them, especially Swarm.
- Fire Spells are good against Spider. If your Shapeshifting form reflects enemy Spiders then they are all -10% resistance to fire.
- Grease Fire can be very helpful up against Spider using Flame Blast and Grease combo.
- You can cast it right on your entire party. I find it seems to weaken the spiders even though it does little dmg. As long as the group has minimal fire resistance you'll be fine.
- Flame Blast is also very handy. Good against Undead, Spiders, & Warewolves. A good spell to invest early in to fight against those higher Nature Resistant enmies.
Gear Tips:
Weapon Dmg:
- It does not effect spider, bear, or swarm dmg. This is based off Strength alone. But bonuses gained from weapons do help including runes.
Exception: Spider & Bear doesn't seem to gain dmg bonuses from weapons, but Swarm does. I think it is becasue swarm takes on most of the same
attributes as the human form with just some minor changes
In my test I took Starfang which gives +3 dmg. Swarm did gain the +3 points, but it seemed like Spider & Bear stayed the same.
- The stock weapon dmg does not effect any form it is only the "Green" bonuses that carry over.
- Runes also carry over to any form.
- Any type of resistance bonus carries over in shapeshifting.
Exception: Spider form is capped at 75% and you cannot go beyond that percentage with any type of boost.
- Staffs will give you 100% accuracy and you will never miss while in shapeshifted form. (recommended)
- Barefists or other weapons will cause you to miss, but you can gain benefits from runes or ather boosts the weapons offer.
Armor Rating:
- Armor rating doesn't stack. It takes the higher of the 2 numbers (either your armor score or the score with shapeshifting boost).
- Defense Rating does stacks from all the testing I've done.
- I've found extremely heavy armor isn't all that necessary. It definitely helps for a strong shapeshifter build, but adjust if you want to do more casting.
- Bear does get +10 armor bonus on top of any armor you wear. As long as the Armor rating is above the boosted rating from spellpower, you will always get the +10 added.
***Individual Shapeshifting Abilities***
- Some initial thoughts. I will refine and add as I go with personal experiences or added comments to this thread.
- Spider -
- This is the first shapeshifting form you get when you choose the shapeshifter class at lvl 7.
- You get Web, and Poision Spit.
- Once you get Master Shapeshifter you become a Corrupted Spider and have the Overwhelm ability.
Benefits:
- Web is pretty effect to lockdown a target and has good range. It also casts fairly fast.
- Poison Spit isn't bad. Comboing it with Web can be effective.
- Poison calculation: (100 + Dex)0.5, over 3 seconds
- You cannot be Grabbed or Overwhlemed
- Fire resistance is -10%
- Nature Resistance +75%
- High attack speeds. Spiders have really good Dex boosts.
Enemies:
- Fire is bad. Especially going through the Cricle Tower and in the Fade it can be difficult to keep the spider alive.
- Rage Demons will tear you.
- Templars love to cleanse the area and this will cause you to loose the Spider so be cautious.
- Dragons are also hazardous.
- Fighting other Spiders isn't that bad. They do have high Nature Resistance so you may not be as effective, but you can't be Overwhelmed.
- Also Poison Spit can be resisted or have little effect against another spider.
- SPider vs Spider more or less neutralizes their stronger abilities, but you can Web other spider and they can web you.
- You can get caught in the Web traps going through the Dalish Elf areas.
- Spiders are weak vs Undead and Skeletons. Any enemy with high Nature resistance can cause problems with the Spider form.
Tactics:
- A good starting combo going into a fight already as a spider: Web - Poison Spit 1 Enemy, Overwhelm 2nd Enemy
- Poison Spit Combined with an attack can do high dmg so set that up if possible if Overwhelm is not available
- Sitting back around corners works good if you can draw the enemy in.
- Spiders can be good against mages. You can either web them from a distance or just go in and Overwhelm. A strong enough SPider can kill a mage with a single Overwhelm attack. So this could be a substitute for a Mage killer in your group.
- Corrdinated attacks using CC Spells and web is a good way to neutralize groups or targets.
- Bear -
- Unlocked at lvl 8
- Bonuses are geared more towards a Warrior
- You get Rage and Stomp to start
- Master Shapeshifter unlocks Overwhelm
- Rage is a damage booster
- Stomp is a knockdown ability
Benefits:
- Stomp is good for disrupting mages from casting. It can also be used to stop a friend form being Overwhelemd.
- I think it may be able to release the grab of a Ogre. (I'm not 100% sure)
- Like Spider, Bears cannot be Grabbed or Overwhelmed
- You can Overwhelm Bosses
- They can be your Tank if needed
- They can draw good aggro
Enemies:
- Cleanse Area can take you out of shapeshifitng. Be cautious by enemies using that ability.
- Excellent distraction against Dragons and the Broodmother
- They worked good against Warewolves
- They also seemed pretty effective against Skeletons
- Overall effective against most enemies
- Bears are good against Revenants. They do consistantly high dmg.
Tactics:
- They can be used to Tank Dragons easily equipped with proper fire resistance
- They do block doorways easily
- Overwhleming a Boss can do serious dmg while giving your team time setup
- Stomp is also good to knock back Bosses and you can always rage first to increase dmg.
- Be careful using Rage, for some reason it takes a fair amount of time to activate. You gotta time it right in battles or it can work against you
- You can easily lead in a battle with the Bear drawing Aggro and using Overwhelm to neutralize higher level enemies and even Mages
- Swarm -
- Unlocked at lvl 10
- Starting Ability: Divide the Swarm (Stunnig Ability)
- Master Shapeshifter allows you to gain health when you attack
Benefits:
- Mana is used as your Health
- Radius Dmg (effect anyone by you)
- You do not have to have a selcted target to attack
- Very fast
- Excellent distracation
Enemies:
- Fire is a killer. -75% Fire Resistance
- Excellent against Archers
- Very hard to hit with arrows and melee attacks
- You can be caught in Crushing Prison so becarful by mages who use that.
- You can fly over traps and not trigger them.
- Skeletons are iummune to Swarms
- Undead are sometimes immune or take very little dmg.
- Spiders take dmg but very little because of high nature resistance
- Swarm does good dmg vs Spirits
- Swarm can be froze so be careful fighting Desire Demons
- Very effective against large groups of Deepstalkers
Tactics:
- Swarm is an excellent way to enter a Battle. It can be used to distract and group the enemy.
- Good Tank support and can do constant dmg to several enemies at a time
- You can distract groups of archers as well as Mages
- You can get good aggro
- A good combo is to use Earthquake and fly the swarm on top of it. Earthquake does not effect Swarms.
- Grease can works just as good as Earthquake if used the same
- Swarm will be slowed down by Grease and can be hazardous if caught on fire, be cautious when using it.
***Combined Tactics***
*As a single unit, the spider, bear, or swarm can be effective but they are much better chained together.
*Combined with Spells at the beginning, middle, or end of shapeshifitng increase the effectiveness even more.
Tactics: (At Master Shapeshifter Level)
1. Overwhelm Combos: Spider & Bear have seperate overwhelm abilites. So you can do back to back Overwhelms if you can shapeshift safely in the fight. One way is to start as Spider and overwhelm first, then use Web and Poison to gain time. Change to bear overwhelm and then use Stomp to gain time. Most likely you will not be able to change back to Spider becasue of the 90 second cooldown. But if you can, most likely you
would be able to ovewhelm again. So timing out and stringing together Overwhelm can be very effective.
2. Intial Swarm: Swarm is good way to begin battles. It is a good way to distract archers from shooting companions. Plus it saves your health. You can also use Swarm to close the distance between yourself and enemy archers. One combo is to fly in as Swarm, change to human form and use CC Spells on Archers. This will give you time to shapechange and string together the Overwhelm combo. You can use Swarm as long as you want until the swarm dies or change out right away. I did this in the begining of the Dead Trenches and it worked very good in the section right past the bridge with the Ogre and 2 lines of Archers. I dropped in my mages right on top of the 2 lines of archers.
Also very effective in the dirty back allies of Denerim when going against the large groups of archers hiding.
3. Health Gain: Swarm is also a good way to gain health mid battle if your healer is dead or you are using Blood Magic. You couold start with Blood Wound to stun the group, change to SPider, web-poison-overwhelm. If health is low, change to Swarm group the enemy gaining health. Then switch out if you have to or repeat the cycle by using Blood Wound and Bear. Also switching to spider or bear gives you constitution bonuses and health gains.
4. Grease FIre & Earthquake: I've been doping some testing with Grease FIre. Many have said it is kinda useless becasue of the small amount of damage. I've found it works really good on Spiders. It still only does the 2 or 3 dmg per tick, but it seems to weaken the spiders to die faster. I've been taking some risks with it, but I find if you cast it directly on top of the entire team it really helps clear out those large groups of spider attacks faster. Also you can toss in Earthquake to stun or knock them down to prevent them form doing dmg to you.
Although be careful becasue the spiders can resist it, but with other enemies you can be more sucessful. Also if you do have Fire Resistance I recommend doing this as Bear. You'll have good resistance against earthquake and the Bear causes good dmg to Spiders.
Flame Blast can't ignite the Grease, but once you get a Spider on fire it goes off. You can also toss grease twice and extend the grease fire till about 30 sec. It goes out after that. I haven't been able to sustain it any longer.
***************** Updates Above ***************************************
[b]Original Post:
Ok in another thread a shapeshifting team was mentioned by daddytat. So I decided to try this out and also really give the shapeshifting form 100% effort.
Game - Nightmare
Team - PC Mage Elf, Morrigan, Wynne, Warrior (I'm not sure which, either Shale/Allistar/Ohgren)
So far I finished Lothering and I just unlocked the Shale quest that's it. I'm currently lvl 8. First I wanna post some results I found. Shapeshifting form power is determined by Spellpower not magic level. Spellpower level will increase all bonuses while in the shapeshifting form.
So far I've only tested with the Spider form, but it boosts Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Physical Resistance, Nature Resistance, Armor, Defense, Damage, and Armor Penetration score. YES, it boosts all of those areas and the amount it boosts is dependent on Spellpower.
So people complaing about Strength score determines dmg, well yes you are doing a physical attack so it is only right, but the form boosts this for you. Also remeber the posion score from what I can tell is effected by spellpower.
** So what I did was with Myself and Morrigan is tested the amounts it boosts. I removed all gear and weapons and had no buffs activated. So these are straight results from being naked to shapeshifting form.
Results for Spider:
PC Mage (Elf): Spellpower = 27
Human Form Spider Bonus
Strength 10 +4
Dexterity 10 +12
Wilpower 16 ---
Magic 37 ---
Cunning 11 ---
Con 12 +7
Phy Res 1 +12
Fire Res 0 -10%
Nat Res 5% +70% (for some reason I have 5% Resistance wearing nothing, but Morrigan doesn't)
Armor 1 +6
Defense 40 +12
Dmg 3.9 +5.4
Arm Pen 0 +4
Morrigan: Spellpower 14
Human Form Spider Bonus
Strength 14 ---
Dexterity 16 +3
Wilpower 21 ---
Magic 24 ---
Cunning 12 ---
Con 12 +5
Phy Res 6 +4
Fire Res 0 -10%
Nat Res 0 +75%
Armor 1 +6
Defense 46 +3
Dmg 7 +2.2
Arm Pen 0 +3
- Ok so those are some of the stat bonuses you get from the spider form. I did confirm a higher Spellpower increases these scores. Of course any manual increase to attributes, clothing, or items will help. As you can see Morrigan doesn not get as good of bonuses as I do. I'm not sure if npc characters do not get them in general or it's becasue of her low Spellpwer score. My score is double hers so it could be that.
Tactics:
So far I've found out the Poison can do some good dmg. I've been getting mid to high 20s. I completely dominated the Bears in Lothering having 2 spiders. So I hope aginst other creatures like warewolves it may be very effective. When I fought the other Spiders in Lothering, I was basically overwhelmed and couldn't do much to stop them. Also at the time I don't think I had Shapeshifting yet.
You gotta micro manage the spiders sense I haven't seen support in the Tactics menu for the forms. I like to start in Spider form and I'll poison and web, then possibly switch back if the spiders take too much dmg.
- I'll update as I go. I won't be able to get Wynne as a Shapeshifter until lvl 14. So I'm trying decide if I wanna wait or not. I may just get her and see how the buffs will increase the Spider Form dmg.
***Also if someone is up to calculating a percentage increase based on Spellpower, more power to ya. I'm not sure if it can be done, but I would imagine there would be different increase for each category.
Modifié par x-president, 15 février 2010 - 05:12 .
Retour en haut
Although the Swarm can easily be used for KITing them. Also they are kinda immune to the nature dmg but it seems like it irratates them. lol Plus side any dmg taken from Revenant reduces Mana so it's somethign good to start in to save health. You just gotta let them do that first cleansing burst tehn shapechange.
